"Eat Like A Predator, Not Like Prey": Paleo In Six Easy Steps, A Motivational Guide

Didn't Atkins die from clogged arteries?

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Originally Posted by Johnny Deep

Didn't Atkins die from clogged arteries?

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Are you serious?

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On April 8, 2003, at age 72, a day after a major snowstorm in New York, Atkins slipped on icy pavement, suffering severe head trauma. He spent nine days in intensive care, before dying on April 17, 2003 at 11:01 a.m. He is survived by his wife, Veronica, and his 93 year old mother Norma.

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Dude was a cardiologist - he devised his diet to lower cholesterol and plaque in his patients. The weight loss/stabilization was a side effect.

It really does work. Unfortunately it, like Spats' Paleo diet, requires a permanent dietary change. I lost 50lbs in 6mos on this diet once - then gained much of it back when I realized life without bread & beer sucks ass.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

I lost 50lbs in 6mos on this diet once - then gained much of it back when I realized life without bread & beer sucks ass.

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Perhaps that's why Atkins weighed 258lbs at his postmortem?

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Originally Posted by Tippster

(really - cavemen didn't need them... oh, but they died at 30)

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In all cases for which we have evidence, hunter-gatherers lived longer, were taller and healthier, and had far less rotten teeth and deficiency diseases, than the farmers that followed them. This Jared Diamond essay explores that issue.

And the life expectancy wasn't 30, either.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-...nter-gatherer/

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Originally Posted by Tippster

How is this diet different than what Dr. Atkins has been preaching for decades?

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Atkins was zero-carb (or zero-glycemic), and that is the only important thing on Atkins. You're allowed to eat any goofy industrial product you want (seed oils, candy made with sugar alcohols, carbless energy 'bars' made of soy protein and soy oil) so long as it doesn't have a glycemic index.

And since seed oils and their associated omega-6 and trans fat content are responsible for so many of our health woes, Atkins, while very effective at causing weight loss, isn't the optimal health plan.

In contrast, 'paleo' is fine with carbohydrates, so long as they come from root starches, vegetables, and fruits -- i.e. things humans have eaten for millions of years -- in proportion to what our bodies expect. (The science supports this strongly, especially as it comes to the omega-3/omega-6 ratio of modern diets vs. paleo diets and the glycation/oxidation issues of polyunsaturated fats, found mostly in seed oils, and which 'paleo' explicitly minimizes.)

And that is mostly fatty meat, because there just aren't enough calories in vegetables or fruit to support our big damned brains. The wild ancestors of potatoes, carrots, bananas, apples, etc. aren't big starch and sugar bombs like the domesticated varieties we've carefully bred for since agriculture.

In other words, Atkins focuses on one thing: eliminating carbohydrates. Paleo asks the bigger question: "What have people eaten for millions of years, and how can we approach that in a modern world?" Low (and not zero) carb intake is just one small part of that.

hafilax: more on your points later, I've got to go ride my bike to the store because I'm out of eggs, veggies, and coconut oil :D

I'll admit that I have no idea what the lifespan of a hunter-gatherer was, so retract that. I do find it hard to believe that they would eschew nuts and berries if they were readily available... wild grains as well. Either way I'm not trying to disbelieve the Paleo diet - just asking questions.

PNWBrit: he was 195 lbs when he was admitted into the hospital after his fall and bloated 60lbs during his coma, mostly fluids.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

PNWBrit: he was 195 lbs when he was admitted into the hospital after his fall and bloated 60lbs during his coma, mostly fluids.

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I think it far more likely that the ongoing and well known conspiracy theories about his heart disease and weight involves his family and business partners protecting their multi-million dollar business interest and hudge cash cow than the various NY medical examiners, doctors and hospital staff being the shills of the US Agro industry.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

I'll admit that I have no idea what the lifespan of a hunter-gatherer was, so retract that. I do find it hard to believe that they would eschew nuts and berries if they were readily available... wild grains as well. Either way I'm not trying to disbelieve the Paleo diet - just asking questions.

PNWBrit: he was 195 lbs when he was admitted into the hospital after his fall and bloated 60lbs during his coma, mostly fluids.

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I fixed the Jared Diamond link, which was borked because vBulletin keeps trying to 'help' by embedding it.

Foragers certainly didn't eschew nuts and berries: and, in fact, the article says specifically to eat them in moderation! But if you try to gather (for instance) wild pine nuts, you'll notice it's a very labor-intensive process to get them out, they're only available during a very short season, and you're not getting very many net calories out of the deal. Same with wild berries, but more so: tasty, but very few calories.

Result: they wouldn't have been available to Paleolithic humans in sufficient quantities to replace fatty meat and fish. Absolutely eat berries, nuts, and veggies, but they're not a replacement for fatty meats.

Now I really do have to go. More late tonight, hopefully.

I am an unabashed paleo advocate and think this is a great read, Spats. Its pretty easy to get sucked into fad diets and think that the government is always giving you good information. They are not. The food pyramid is one of the great falsities of this country and should be ignored entirely. If you eat a diet that is primarily based on meats, fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds, you'll lose weight, have more energy, sleep better, slay the toilet better, and generally feel and look better.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Are you serious?



Dude was a cardiologist - he devised his diet to lower cholesterol and plaque in his patients. The weight loss/stabilization was a side effect.

It really does work. Unfortunately it, like Spats' Paleo diet, requires a permanent dietary change. I lost 50lbs in 6mos on this diet once - then gained much of it back when I realized life without bread & beer sucks ass.

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I have a couple of friends that are way into Atkins (the above by me was a bit of a joke btw) and they bonk every time we go out. It's quite annoying, really. I think too many over analyze this shit and assume what works for fat lazy people works for everyone. Need to loose weight? Exercise/burn fat.

My total Cholesterol is 165, HDL 85. I drink 5-6 beers/day. Everyday. I weigh 145 lbs. I destroy food, I don't wear it. :biggrin:

YMMV

*Edited heavily*

I say this with the utmost honesty and due respect.

First and foremost- Spats I feel as though your dietary advice is fairly sound. Additionally, I agree that Paleo is an excellent direction to go in if done correctly.

However, your understanding of training / performance physiology is inaccurate and I do not agree with it (as I perceive what you are saying).

This is a touchy subject for me because, well, its my job to know.
I say this as a (former) national caliber athlete.
I say this as a consultant to world class athletes
I say this as an exercise physiologist who has "fixed" athletes whom train ineffectively and drastically improved their performance.
I say this as someone who has "known" you for years and whom is challenging you to understand the ideas contrary to your own.

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Originally Posted by Spats

Absolutely eat berries, nuts, and veggies, but they're not a replacement for fatty meats...

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Works for me. We have two large bone-in ribeyes (for 4 people) about to get charred to deliciousness.

...but I REALLY like german chocolate cake

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

Spats and Burnhard-

I say this with the utmost honesty and due respect.

You're both smart.
You're also both smart enough to be dangerous.

You think that you understand ALL the related issues. I will agree that you know most of the related issues. I will add, however, that you lack the ability to understand concepts that are contrary to your opinion. Therein lies the danger. You have both demonstrated that you fill in the gaps in which your knowledge lags with either generalizations or regurgitation's.

Because you both portray your knowledge as fact, I am trying to be as clear and concise and possible. I am in no way trying to be a "jerk", just a messenger to bring things back to earth.

As I write this, I feel as though I shouldn't, because it will cause turmoil. I was initially prompted due to glaring misrepresentations and feel obligated to post.

Both of your understanding of training / performance physiology is inaccurate and potentially a poor regurgitation.

This is a touchy subject for me because, well, its my job to know.
I say this as a (former) national caliber athlete.
I say this as a consultant to world class athletes
I say this as an exercise physiologist
I say this as someone who has "known" you for years and whom is challenging you to understand the ideas contrary to your own.

For what its worth, I do agree that Paleo is a pretty solid direction to go in if done correctly.

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I'm actually embarrassed that I gave you the impression that I think I understand all the issues... I find myself daily admitting to shortcomings in my knowledge or understanding in most everything I discuss, and I agree with you that sometimes I "fill in" gaps with regurgitated material. I try to avoid that and am *always* open to hearing a rational and well supported argument against my position.

So...

A) What specifically are you addressing? My post about exercise? Or my support of Paleo? I don't want to play the bitchy passive-aggressive card, I'm actually interested in others' opinions & an interesting discussion.

B) Do you work with MMA fighters and do you give a maggot-athlete a good deal on exercise & nutrition consulting? ;)

Vodka is best.

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Originally Posted by Spats

The comment about 'doing cardio' is mostly about cardio being ineffective for weight loss. If you've got specific activities you need to train for, by all means train for them. (i.e. mostly what BurnHard said)

However, I train for riding and BC skiing by riding and BC skiing :D And teaching your body to burn fat (via low-carb diet/IF) improves your steady state output quite a bit. I'd also rather go outside and ride or trail run, even in miserable weather, than sit on a treadmill. In my opinion, if you can comfortably read a magazine while "spinning", you aren't doing yourself a damn bit of good as far as improving your endurance.

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Whether you run on a treadmill or a trail or ride a trainer or the road is neither here nor there. These are opinion.

You can, in fact, alter your body's ability to "burn" fat through changes in diet. I measure this every day.

However, longer steady state efforts which may feel "easy" are also very effective at altering preferred substrate. Does walking around the mall count? Hell No. However, You're missing half the equation if you ignore lower intensity work.

Think of it this way. Do you ever wax your skis and then ski on them with scraping. Sure, it can be done. They may even glide better than before. However, anyone who knows how to tune skis would look at that person like a reject.

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Originally Posted by Spats

Cholesterol levels are a red herring (every cell in your body makes cholesterol because it's a precursor to so many important hormones), and if you don't eat enough your body will make it. But trigs and other stuff usually go down anyway, because high carb consumption (esp. fructose) will peg your triglycerides far worse than fat.

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Its funny how this is true. Heart disease is now thought to be influenced more by chronic low level inflammation. Even in the industry many many people are beyond stuck on cholesterol levels and not attempting to reduce the inflammation that causes havoc within your body.

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Originally Posted by BurnHard

I'm actually embarrassed that I gave you the impression that I think I understand all the issues... I find myself daily admitting to shortcomings in my knowledge or understanding in most everything I discuss, and I agree with you that sometimes I "fill in" gaps with regurgitated material. I try to avoid that and am *always* open to hearing a rational and well supported argument against my position.

So...

A) What specifically are you addressing? My post about exercise? Or my support of Paleo? I don't want to play the bitchy passive-aggressive card, I'm actually interested in others' opinions & an interesting discussion.

B) Do you work with MMA fighters and do you give a maggot-athlete a good deal on exercise & nutrition consulting? ;)

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Actually, I should have been more clear and perhaps will continue to edit my post. I do not want to "call anyone out", just post alternative views.

I may not be remembering correctly, but I recall much of your lifting advice to be similar to what you listed above. I will agree that high intensity / low volume exercise / weight lifting is appropriate... but only at certain times and for certain specific goals.

Often times an individual is not prepared to handle high loads such as your commonly prescribe. In addition, the physiological benefit is short lived and the gains fairly specific.

My issue is this: When you start to talk with many people whom have gotten over the allure of crossfit (not saying you subscribe, just an example) you begin to hear the stories of aching shoulders and bla bla bla. I've worked out at a few crossfit gyms and in "globo-gyms" with people whom crossfit.

What I've found is that most in that category do not really understand the body and how it works. Many movements set people for injury and while crossfit coaches insist on proper form they lack the knowledge to understand and correct the reasons that there was a break in form. I've observed this in those whom are quasi-crossfit wannabe's and also in those who have crossfit coaching certifications.

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Originally Posted by BurnHard

True. Most personal trainers are useless anyway ;)

I however do bench press, deadlift, and squat as well, which technically is 'limited range of motion', and I do those with 90-95%-max weights with the goal of improving strength because I'm lacking in some aspects. I also run 5-8 miles DAILY, slow, to build an aerobic base, which I am also lacking compared to my anaerobic training. A lot of miles on a treadmill when it's too cold. What I'm sayin is, too general an exercise guideline cannot be applied to everybody since individual athletes have specific needs to improve specific weaknesses or strengths...

But what I'm talking about does not apply to 99% of the population and the lazy slobs who sit on the erg/bike barely outputting 50Watts and talking on the phone :rolleyes2:rolleyes2 Those are the guys who will benefit from the article's kind of exercise guidelines the most.

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Re-reading this, I can believe that suggestions you have given previously were because of the training you are doing for yourself.

And yeah. Trainers at gyms are some of least knowledgeable people whom I have met. I have more respect for spats and the like whom are interested and do their own learning than 95% of the people who I graduated undergrad with. I basically take the stance that everyone sucks at what they do until they prove otherwise.

In terms of your training, you really can't limit yourself to those high intensity numbers. At that point you're training primarily neuromuscular recruitment... which is exceedingly important for strength... however so are increases in crosssectional diameter that are found in lower intensity numbers.

Additionally you need to be able to move quickly...which is true "power". You do not find that type of training with loads that high. Low reps and moderate intensity while allow you to recruit quickly. After all, do you want to just lift someone up...or f'ing toss him?

Cause cavemen lived long, healthy lives, right?

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Originally Posted by karpiel

Cause cavemen lived long, healthy lives, right?

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don't you live in your mom's basement?

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

I've worked out at a few crossfit gyms and in "globo-gyms" with people whom crossfit.

What I've found is that most in that category do not really understand the body and how it works. Many movements set people for injury and while crossfit coaches insist on proper form they lack the knowledge to understand and correct the reasons that there was a break in form. I've observed this in those whom are quasi-crossfit wannabe's and also in those who have crossfit coaching certifications.

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fwiw, i have been called to a couple crossfit-induced injuries on the amber lamps round these parts in the past few months... one particularly gnarly rhabdomyolysis/compartment syndrome.

pickles- i'm curious and would love to hear if you have the time/inclination to write out- what sort of diet do you advocate/follow yourself?

good read, good info. i dont think this has to be a 24/7 ordeal unless you're extremely sedentary and looking to show off some abs, but its a stellar guideline. i've been wondering what the ideal dressing is following these guidelines if i am eating a salad?

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Originally Posted by Rontele

don't you live in your mom's basement?

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It's a walk out.
:fmicon:

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Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

fwiw, i have been called to a couple crossfit-induced injuries on the amber lamps round these parts in the past few months... one particularly gnarly rhabdomyolysis/compartment syndrome.

pickles- i'm curious and would love to hear if you have the time/inclination to write out- what sort of diet do you advocate/follow yourself?

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Hey Court- I'll say that I am Paleo-eque / whole foods. Typical dinner for me will be a bunch of flank steak, raw veggies, fruit, nut butter and a yogurt. I tend to cook proteins ahead of time and consume throughout the week. I, personally, have some issues including low level UC (see my thread in gimp central: ) that really do not like too many nuts but does well with yogurt. I typically do not buy anything that is non-perishable and if I do buy products like bread it is rare and from a bakery and not in a bag. Additionally, due to issues, I do not process fat soluble nutrients (not enough bile gets to the intestines because of the bile-duct block) so I supplement with a multi-vit and fish oil. Additionally I typically supplement with turmeric, ginger and quercitin for inflammation. I feel as though I've seen noticeable improvements in my vitiligo, especially with the addition of the inflammation supplements. However, that is completely observational and I really can't back that statement up.

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Originally Posted by shroom

good read, good info. i dont think this has to be a 24/7 ordeal unless you're extremely sedentary and looking to show off some abs, but its a stellar guideline. i've been wondering what the ideal dressing is following these guidelines if i am eating a salad?

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Freshly squeezed Squirrel.

This is going entirely OT but is way too interesting to not discuss, sorry OP :D

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

I will agree that high intensity / low volume exercise / weight lifting is appropriate... but only at certain times and for certain specific goals

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100% agreed. Specialization is the keyword IMHO, and that means both with regards to the individual athlete and the sport. I'm not going to do isolated bicep curls for MMA purposes, neither should a marathon runner squat 95%-max on a weekly basis (or ever). I'm not going to focus as much on strength once my weaknesses shift elsewhere, nor will a 5k runner keep doing long aerobic base runs when he needs tempo runs or intervals to build speed. What I'm saying is, training specific to the individual and the sport is key.

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

My issue is this: When you start to talk with many people whom have gotten over the allure of crossfit (not saying you subscribe, just an example) you begin to hear the stories of aching shoulders and bla bla bla. I've worked out at a few crossfit gyms and in "globo-gyms" with people whom crossfit.

What I've found is that most in that category do not really understand the body and how it works. Many movements set people for injury and while crossfit coaches insist on proper form they lack the knowledge to understand and correct the reasons that there was a break in form. I've observed this in those whom are quasi-crossfit wannabe's and also in those who have crossfit coaching certifications.

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I love certain aspects of CrossFit and do the occasional CrossFit type workout, but I'm not a big supporter of CF and do not make it the basis of my MMA training as it is focused too much on GPP rather than sport-specific needs, and the CF.com WOD does not have any concept of periodization whatsoever...

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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

In terms of your training, you really can't limit yourself to those high intensity numbers. At that point you're training primarily neuromuscular recruitment... which is exceedingly important for strength... however so are increases in crosssectional diameter that are found in lower intensity numbers.

Additionally you need to be able to move quickly...which is true "power". You do not find that type of training with loads that high. Low reps and moderate intensity while allow you to recruit quickly. After all, do you want to just lift someone up...or f'ing toss him?

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Full agreement again. Just my randomly scrambled thoughts here:
- Heavy lifting is only part of my routine. 2-3x/week if I'm really looking to drastically increase strength, 1x/week if I just want to maintain in the 8 weeks leading up to a fight.
- The same goes for HIIT type workouts - they're only part of my training, in fact, I do a lot of aerobic base/LISS type running, and a lot of AT/Tempo running when coming closer to a fight.
- Increasing crossectional diameter of the fibers usually involves an increase in mass (correct me if I'm wrong...), something which I have to be very careful about re: weight class.
- Explosive power training is also part of my training and becomes my primary focus leading into a fight: Plyo work, jump squats, depth jumps, explosive bench...

With all the indoors "machine" training I do I probably fail OP's article's criteria for Paleo :fm: