Ahh so where do you think we are.

I'm ahead by 30% or better over the past 4 years. I was ahead 50% or so in the previous 4 years. In fact, since 1979 when I got out of high school, my income and holdings have gone up every four years! I will not attribute any of that to any administration, past or present. And I expect to be even more ahead in four years, notwithstanding anyone in the white house.

I really really do wish we could elect someone fiscally responsible though. Please note that this is not a wish that the Democrat got elected either. I gave both an "F" on fiscal responsibility.

Is that deficit plus high interest rates from Carter or the deficit and low interest rate from Reagan.

what is it seven years in the past 55 that we haven't had a deficit.

which one are you talking about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

which one are you talking about?

---

Come on, man. You're better than that.

I'm curious, because the one I inherited in 1989 was larger in real dollar terms and in relation to the GDP than todays.

christ, I was only thirteen then.

mean streets indeed.

Did you inherit a deficit that year? I inherited an oil spill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

I'm curious, because the one I inherited in 1989 was larger in real dollar terms and in relation to the GDP than todays.

christ, I was only thirteen then.

mean streets indeed.

---

All I take from this post is that you're the same age as me, which I find shocking and slightly creepy (for no good reason).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grrrr

Did you inherit a deficit that year? I inherited an oil spill.

---

heady times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshbu

KQ:

It's a losing argument with most rich people these days because our communities have become so insular that they are utterly clueless about the way the other 90% of the population lives. They haven't been without health care int he last few years, so they have no idea how much that medical care costs. They haven't been out of work recently, so they have no idea how long it takes to get a job. They have assets and savings accounts, so they've never worried about where the money is going to come from to pay the bills.

But hey, the rich are better than all of the people who don't have jobs right? They worked "hard." Anyone who can't make ends meet in this society must be a loser. Just a free loader. Probably on drugs. And having premarital sex. And gay. God hates them. Jesus himself said: the rich will inherit the earth," right? "Blessed are thou if thou has a summer home?" "Blessed are thou if you think everyone who is poor is a loser."

---

Well, being self employed, I pay for health care out of my pocket. yep,write the check myself.
I also pay twice the social security rate you do.
If I don't work, I don't eat.
I have NEVER had a paid vacation,sick day or paid holiday in my adult working life.
I got where I am (which is not by any streach of the imagination rich)by avoiding debt like it's a plague. If I can't buy it outright, I do with out.The one exception was my first house. I have always conducted my finances so that if my business went belly up, I can still keep on living the life I am living. I don't own a cell phone, XM radio or dvd player and I have owned just one new car in my life (Honda) I am super solvent and live debt free.Along the way, I have owned exotic cars and for a few years, my own airplane, all I sold for more than I paid justifying their existence.Probably the real secret to me is my wife. We are both on the same page so we aren't at each others throats about lifestyles. We have a goal and work toward it. BELIEVE ME...if I can pull this off, anyone can

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Bullshit. For 40 million people without health insurance your story might have a much different, sadder ending. If the federal government was running health care we wouldn't be enriching thousands of different insurance companies at our own expense.

---

That 40 million figure includes a large number of young adults who choose to go without healthcare because they don't want to pay for it.
Prior to wishing national healthcare on this country, I suggest you take a hard look at the socialized medical schemes throughout the world. Most are underfunded and provide substandard care. We have the best health care in the world here and like it or not, thats because it's profit based.It is not a perfect system but utopia doesn't exist except in the minds of a few lingering Leninists. I know drug costs are out of control because I don't have a prescription plan. My kid gets sick, I buy the prescribed medicine.I believe the reason drug costs are out of control is (1) Lawyers and (2) prescription plans...they insulate the consumer from the real costs hence he has no reason to complain until his provider starts cutting back and raising the co-pay.I scruntinize every bill that crosses my desk.
Nothing in life is free. If you have a cell phone,vcr,dvd or $100. sneakers, you can afford to insure your own ass and not burden mine. If everyone pays, the rates will be lower.Thats the nature of insurance, pooled risk. I know it works because insurance is my arena.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrw

I can't vote. Joy and euphoria are missing from the list

---

I agree, I can't vote either.

Bush rules wasn't an answer either... :fm:

Why isn't distraught on the list.Republicans are clown shoes!This admin has the social graces of a pubic louse,the wit of road kill ,the honesty of a starving hyena. Let the fillibustering begin.I hope this ushers in a new era of protest & revolt against the revolting system,like the 60's.

Bush isn't fit to eat the corn out of the sh*t in a dead Iraqies arse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrw

BELIEVE ME...if I can pull this off, anyone can

---

So you agree? The poor are lazy? Good for nothing? Because if you can do it anyone can? Those that don't make it, well, there must be something wrong with them?

I'm also a little confused how you don't define yourself as rich. Do rich people have 2 beach homes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrw

In the last 4 years, I have seen my business grow by at least 50%, my real estate holdings have increased in value so much that I sold off something and bought a beach house for cash and with a little luck, I will be semi retired within the next 4 years.

---

Everyone that I have talked to that voted for Bush and actually has a reason keeps talking about money and self improvement. Essentially, they are convinced that Bush will allow them to make more money (or give less of it to the government) therefore directly improving their lifestyle.

Even if that's true (which it definitely is for a lot of people) it's a very selfish viewpoint. I had been hoping that people would vote for what's best for the rest of the world, let alone certain special interest groups in America.

Sammy, didn't you know that the Republican mandate actually is based on scripture? Check out the Eleventh Commandment: Taketh thee care of number one and fucketh everyone else.

No option for incessant whining? I think that's right where we are. :the_finge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrw

That 40 million figure includes a large number of young adults who choose to go without healthcare because they don't want to pay for it.
Prior to wishing national healthcare on this country, I suggest you take a hard look at the socialized medical schemes throughout the world. Most are underfunded and provide substandard care. We have the best health care in the world here and like it or not, thats because it's profit based.

---

I suggest you look at the many figures which absolutely disprove your statement that we have the best health care in the world here (unless you only meant for the rich, in which case you're probably right). Take our infant mortality rate, which is almost dead last among industrialized countries, and ranks behind many of the little countries you probably consider the U.S. to be superior to.
National healthcare would be the best possible thing for us, no question about it. But the insurance companies (W's friends) would never want you to know that, and it looks like they're doing a pretty good job of keeping the wool pulled over your eyes.
Besides, if you're rich, even with socialized medicine you'd still be able to pay for doctors and care beyond what the health plan provides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrw

I believe the reason drug costs are out of control is (1) Lawyers and (2) prescription plans...

---

Uhhh, yeah. Big pharma isn't out to make a huge profit, it wants only to provide the American public with inexpensive drug-based therapeutics. They also don't want to sell us drugs that we don't need.

I'm so proud to be living in a country where huge corporations are looking out for the little guy...makes me feel all warm inside.

My sister doesn't have health care. I consider this a choice. She's living her life how she wants to. She could have it if she learned valuable skills and applied herself, but she chooses not to. She's lucky because she knows my parents or I would take care of her if she needed it. Explain it to me why you should have to pay for my sister to get health care because she chooses to spend more time having fun than working or going to school than you or I do. Imagine if we started a thread: "I've got $10000 worth of health care to give away". Then people wrote in stories about who deserved it and I wrote in that my sister is having a ball, and she doesn't really want to go to school or do hard work that could earn her money and health care. That would be a winner I'm sure.

She was just in the hospital (a non-profit one). Chances are my parents pay 3/4 of the bill. One item was acetaminophen (that's tylenol btw): $86

I'll break that down for you:

Capital costs (buildings, equipment, etc): $18
Staff (doctors, nurses, janitors, administrators): $15
Liability for when John Edwards sues: $53

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Besides, if you're rich, even with socialized medicine you'd still be able to pay for doctors and care beyond what the health plan provides.

---

Except that there wouldn't be any doctors in the specialty area you needed. Why the fuck would anyone be anything but a family practitioner. You are so alligned w/ anything communist/socialist that your spewing is almost funny. Ask those in Canada how the socialized system has affected the special areas of medicine. I know for a fact that some canadians are sent to the states for testing in areas that canadian doctor's don't practice. I guess if you only plan on getting "normally" sick then its a good idea.

Over the past 4 years I graduated from school, got a good job, received 4 NASD licenses, and because interest rates were so low, I was able to purchase a house and lock in a low 30 year fixed rate at 5.5%. About 10 years ago my parents said that 9% is a good rate to lock in on.

I am of the belief that if you work hard you make what you deserve. just my $0.02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Besides, if you're rich, even with socialized medicine you'd still be able to pay for doctors and care beyond what the health plan provides.

---

(1)I refer you to Hillary Care where a doctor would be unable to take any money other than what her plan allows.

(2) with my current plan, I pay my premium and a co-pay that I have chosen and my carrier steps in after that. With gov't run health care, I would be bent over once by them and then again by a private carrier (assuming that it were allowed) to insure competent care.

(3) I am unwilling to turn over Doctor selection, Treatment and my possible need for a 2nd or even a 3rd opinion to the nanny state.

(4) Government on all levels has proven time and time again that it can't perform even the smallest of functions with out huge spending,cost over runs and pandering to minority groups with a big mouth.

thanks but no thanks, let's put a safety net in place for the bottom rung of society so that they are provided for but sucking me and my family into that morass is completely unacceptable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1080Rider

Except that there wouldn't be any doctors in the specialty area you needed.

Ask those in Canada how the socialized system has affected the special areas of medicine.

I know for a fact that some canadians are sent to the states for testing in areas that canadian doctor's don't practice.

---

I know for a fact that many people in the United States can't find specialty doctors anywhere near where they live. More, my personal observations lead me to conclude that a staggering number of our specialists are either not very good or idiots. A Canadian physician friend (a specialist) complains of the long hours and low pay compared to what doctors in the US earn, although she admits that she isn't burdened by ridiculous insurance costs.

Our medical system really isn't so impressive, there's a lot of work to be done. Maybe in four years we can a start on fixing things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mountain Freak

I am of the belief that if you work hard you make what you deserve. just my $0.02

---

I feel the same way, but I also realize that the playing field isn't level.

Quote:

---

Ask those in Canada how the socialized system has affected the special areas of medicine.

---

While I'm not claiming our health care is without problems, this is wrong. According to the WHO, the US is failing in some areas of specialized med and doing well in others - as is Canada - as are the other countries involved.
Canada is #1 for womens health care, breast cancer research, and near the top in cancer research - but we suck at dealing with heart attacks. The US is at the top for heart attack survival, but the bottom in other areas.

One thing I find somewhat amusing is this whole "living poor, voting rich" phenomenom. The republicans couldn't win without a large body of lower-income people voting for them. These are folks who would benefit directly from Democratic policies, but they vote against their own self-interest. Our household income is quite high. It's an over-simplification, but essentially these people who have very little money are taking what they do have and they're throwing it at me!

I mean, thanks and all, but I'd be perfectly happy if they'd stop.