TR: When everything turns to shit...

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Originally Posted by powder11

The only thing I could add is the wind was howling from many directions that day; seemingly all at once. I hiked Blackcomb glacier and it was blowing in my face from the south west, but when I got on to the top of Disease Ridge it was blowing really hard from the east. Probably 80-100k gusts. Felt like I was going to get knocked off the ridge.

The wind could have loaded that slope without you guys even thinking about it because wind direction changed so quickly and it was blowing so hard. The wind slab doesn't appear to deep, but it must have been super dense to hold you like it did. It also warmed dramitically later in the day at lower elevations with a fine line of winter to spring conditions. Upper disease skied like full on winter blower while most of lower disease had slid into big piles of schmoo. An eye opener for me returning to the resort.

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Phil - I think Toby might have been right if only because the slope we were on was a NW slope. Although you could be right because it does get some evening sun and its low elevation

I got this picture late last night


http://www.leelau.net/2010/fissileev..._Up%20copy.jpg

It was hard to believe how high the slide was - still shaking my head that both Richard and I aren't dead. It shows that our route stayed high on the slope and away from the cliffs. However, the wind shifted so instead of the snow being stripped away from the ridge (ie ridge is safer) - it got blown into the ridge (ie windloading). It must have been hair-trigger just waiting for us to step on it. I wonder now if we had gone one at a time - it might have ripped anyway and then that would be still a big huge problem. But that's all speculation.

The reverse wind has fooled me before but only because I skied lousy snow. It caught us both with our pants down though this time and my bad for letting that happen.

Wow. I'm so glad to read about this here, rather than on the new. Thanks for posting the great details and thoughts...

I was sitting in Merlin's having a beer and a burger bitching about how we got skunked with windfucked snow on Decker that day when I got the text from Phil. It's hard to explain the thoughts going through my mind at that point, especially with the limited info. Atleast I was told it was non life threatening. The relief when Richard banged on my truck window outside the hospital was immense. I know what a bogeyman Fissile has been in Phil's mind since his original crash and I can't imagine what it must be like now, having watched Lee and Rich get smashed like that. All I can say id I'm stoked my bros are escaping with their lives and I hope you work this out in your head bro and join us on many more backcountry adventures, no pressure ;)

Glad you guys are okay.
Excellent write-up and a good sobering reminder for anyone heading out for big objectives.

Thanks for putting this up guys. Very sobering, so happy everyone came out ok.

Lots of stuff flying through my head last night, had trouble falling asleep. If it wasnt' for work, I probably would've been out there. Don't think I would've done anything differently.

It reminds me of Tremper's statement in his book of how we start out BC skiing very cautiously, and after a couple years of nothing happening you start to become cocky.. not saying you were, but I personally had lost that initial cautiousness. This has re-established it for me.

We all tour for fun, but death lurks just around the corner... and it could be a28 degree slope that gets you.

It would be nice to have this on the main forum, just to remind all those guys getting into touring or have been for a while that the backcountry isn't just faceshots and good times. Watching a friend potentially die in front of you is a big part of the risk of what we do.

Unfortunately, I worry putting this in the main forum would turn into a big gongshow of monday morning quarterbacking.

Thanks for sharing this stunning account. I'm glad that in the end you're all alright, for the most part. Take care. Could have been anyone, really....

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Originally Posted by Cheesestoff

Thanks for putting this up guys. Very sobering, so happy everyone came out ok.

Lots of stuff flying through my head last night, had trouble falling asleep. If it wasnt' for work, I probably would've been out there. Don't think I would've done anything differently.

It reminds me of Tremper's statement in his book of how we start out BC skiing very cautiously, and after a couple years of nothing happening you start to become cocky.. not saying you were, but I personally had lost that initial cautiousness. This has re-established it for me.

We all tour for fun, but death lurks just around the corner... and it could be a28 degree slope that gets you.

It would be nice to have this on the main forum, just to remind all those guys getting into touring or have been for a while that the backcountry isn't just faceshots and good times. Watching a friend potentially die in front of you is a big part of the risk of what we do.

Unfortunately, I worry putting this in the main forum would turn into a big gongshow of monday morning quarterbacking.

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Chris I agree. Sorry I missed you last night. Called the dentist office and you were gone. Think Cam and I are mountain biking today but will try you after.

I wouldn't say I've become cocky, but definitely with everyone trying to capture great shots of late, I've definitely lost some of my cautiousness. I completely agree with you on that. Anyway, I think whenever I decide to get back into this stuff, I'll be back at square one "how do we get up this thing safely, how should we space out, where do i stop for a safe zone, what happens if this goes wrong, etc"

I have no problem, posting this on the main forum. I could give a shit if people quarterback me or not. If there is enough interest, I can go ahead and do it tonight.

Go ahead phil. Its better if more see it

Hey Phil, Lee, Toby. Glad you guys are all allright.

Whooaaa!! That is scary. Glad it worked out with only minor injuries.

Please do post in the main forum. I think a lot of people need to see the danger as well as the glory stories.

Wow, just wow. Glad you guys made it out of that alive! Don't second guess yourselves, sometimes its just a numbers game. The more you're back there the more likely something eventually breaks loose. Again, so glad you guys are alive and fairly well !!! vibes +++ for the psychological trauma. Thank you for posting an incredibly documented experience. It can happen to anyone anytime.

Fuck. Can't even imagine what you guys must have gone through. So glad you're all in one piece. Sobering shit.

very glad you're ok and thank you for putting up this write up

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Originally Posted by RampagingMullet

the picture of the boarder in the start zone gives me the chills man

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How do you think I feel about that? (that picture is of me...)

anyways, I have skied that slope 4 times this year on 2 separate days. It is no more than 25 degrees where they started the slide, and i know lee knows where he is going down that thing. the weird thing is that in order to get to those cliffs, you have to cross a small gulley - those guys blew right thew it in the slide. it's the one you can see in the picture from the bottom heading right to left.

another scary thing is every time i've skied that slope, i've gone cranking into it without thinking about it because I just skied at 55 degree 400m shot right above it. Like both guys said, they can't think of anything they would have done differently...and I know I would have done the exact same thing.

now that I think hard about it, that slope gets weird winds and maybe even some sun. I ski with lee a lot...i'm sure we will be thinking about this for years to come and will be a lot more conscious of something like this happening, even when you think you're safe after skiing a big line.

I'm glad you guys are ok. Lee already told me he wants to go ski more steep stuff this year.

phil - I know you are probably shaken up and want to give up on skiing after all that, but don't do it man. that's not the way to go. you love the sport and you can still enjoy it for a long time, even if you aren't out skiing lines like fissile. I know exactly how you feel - last year i was part of a head on collision on a highway north of prince george, about 75km from town. my gf and i were only minorly hit by the aftermath of the actual collision, but i was first on scene obviously and we were a long ways from help. in 1 vehicle, the girl driving was ok and walking around. in the other car, an older man and his 20 year old son were both unconscious. son was most certainly dead on impact but i got him out and tried to revive via cpr (i used to be a lifeguard/first aid instructor) for about 25 minutes while coaching somebody else to monitor the driver in the car and make sure he didn't worsen (he was trapped in the car). it took almost 45 minutes for the first police car to get there. i was covered in blood and broken glass and worked on a dead body for half an hour and then dealt with the father who eventually woke up and started freaking out while trapped.

anyways, it sucked. even though i didn't know the people, it was a terrible feeling watching somebody die...especially the fact that i tried everything in my power with my bare hands to bring him back. so the father driving lost his son and most of his brain power due to major head injuries...I was one car behind...could easily have been me.

point is, it's always on your mind and you will be mindful of it for years to come (i still am always worried about what other people are doing on the road). I know driving is more of necessity than skiing, but hopefully you can see some parallels with my story and get back out there in the future. go to sleep at night knowing that you did everything you could to help your buddies - that's all you or anybody can do. i replayed that day over and over again in my head and finally accepted the fact that it was out of my power and i tried my best and followed all my first aid principals. hopefully you can do the same - i know lee appreciates how you handled everything

cross loading winds !!! far too easy to miss judge.
where's lee's camera? did you lose much shit?
vibes dudes !!!

Glad you guys are all right, looks like a rough ride.

Wow. So glad you guys are ok. Thanks for sharing this.

Fuck. This is a bad month for accidents around here eh...

So glad to hear noone was seriously hurt or killed. A very sobering experience no doubt. It's quite amazing just how fast a good day can turn to shit. Literally seconds. Can't tell you how much I've been thinking about that this week

Wow.

Really glad you guys are all ok. Thanks a lot for posting your thoughts and initial reactions. Very educational.

Thanks for sharing and posting and glad you're all relatively fine.

In the report it was mentioned that Lee you cut the slope and then stopped for some photos? Where did you stop after cutting the slope (safe spot?) and how far above you did the whole thing break?

Maybe you're right about going more "back to basics". I'm not very confident about my skills in reading snow and that's why I usually insist on using all the safety precautions like spacing out, one at a time travel protocol etc. also while in simple, mellow terrain. This is also based on the logic that if you spend much time in the backcountry then the shit WILL eventually hit the fan at some point, and at a time you wouldn't expect, but even at that point you'd only want one person of your party to get caught.

I had a lesson which taught me this, it began with a seemingly innocent situation and a supposedly very stable spring snowpack after having skied a much more threatening slope above. It ended with my skis and poles under couple meters of avy debris (found them in summer) but me fortunately on top and uninjured except of few bruises.

I'd guess from the report that it probably would've taken a working crystal ball to turn back and not ski the slope that avalanched, so coming to the conclusion of not skiing the slope might have been an impossible task for most, if not all groups in the same situation. But would there have been a way for only one person to be exposed?

edit: Just asking these questions for some education and discussion, so I hope you don't mind.

Phil, glad you posted this up. Really happy the three of you are all right. It was a pretty nervous day at Rutherford that same day with the different wind direction and loading. I was pretty content just to sled and fool around on the icecap over skiing some lines.

Hope you make it out this weekend for some hill laps.

thanks for this write up.

my thoughts are: never (again) take more risks for shooting some fotos/video-stuff! it's not worth it!

like i did at the beginning of march, Davos, Switzerland
http://www.powderguide.com/forum/att...5&d=1268418646

other perspective
http://www.powderguide.com/powdermap...6d4b21865c.jpg

you see the line crossing pretty much this (quite small) slide from the middle of the pics towards the left side? thats my "crossing-line" trying to get in a good foto-position for the best angle. the rider skied the line. nothing happend. the next round and 30min later he did the same line once more (without me) and the slide happened. i stood the run before of the later center of the avi... the outcome of the pics was not worth getting my cam out of the pack.

wow, glad you guys are ok and thanks for posting.

Thanks for sharing. So glad eveyone is okay.

Definitely a good story to read before the spring touring season gets going. I think about Tremper's concept of the "numbers game" everytime I'm in the backcountry. It's scary to think about what the outcome would have been if it hadn't been such an experienced and well-prepared group.

So I posted this in the regular forum. There is a bit of arm chair quaterbacking going on. One guy questioned why since we later found out (in the hospital) that we didn't have serious injuries why we called a heli.

I think given the situation that the heli was the most appropriate thing to do, and I would never question Lee's decision to call it. I do not think Richard would have made it out.

Since I think this is the educational forum, I will pose this question here, and I think this is where I can really learn from.

If we didn't have that VHF phone and couldn't call in a heli here is what I would have done. Please tell me what you think and if you would have made another decision.

Whistler village may only be 15k away but from where we were you have approx 1000 feet of skinning. It's then a brutal side ski out, that hurts even when you aren't hurt. Given that Richard, could hardly walk, I still don't think him attempting to skin out was or is an option.

Here is what I would have done.
1. Get Lee and Richard to a safer spot. I think Banana Chute had a real risk of sliding if anyone dropped in while the heli was on its way. We were at the end of the avi run out. Had Banana gone class 3 or 4, it could have wiped us out.
2. I would then turn on all our cell phones. If we have reception call a heli. If not, I would have given them my emergency space blanket, my 2 liter bottle of water that I hadn't used, my 3 cliff bars, my 1 sandwhich, and a bag of chocolate covered almonds. I would have given them my fleece.
3. I would have taken one of their cell phones so I had two. I would have told Lee as I think he was still mentally fit to do so, to start building a small shelter, where if worst comes to worst they could spend the night.
4. I would have skinned up to Russet Hut and kept checking cell phone reception. The skin up to Russet is very safe and I wouldn't have been scared of avalanches.
5. I would have kept checking my cell phone. I believe at the latest I would have gotten cell reception by Cowboy Ridge at which point I would have called in the heli.

This then brings up the question, what if none of us had cell phones.
1. It would take me about 2 hours to get to the village (if I was moving) to get the village. I believe that is what I would have done. Cowboy Ridge is very popular and I believe I would have ran into people there where I could have found a cell phone to use. If those people didn't have a cell phone I still think I would have gone to the village myself and gotten ski patrol, as I wouldn't want to risk others botching my directions on where my friends were camped out waiting for rescue.

2. I think the same logic, would go for anywhere around Whistler. You usually skin close to a road, where it would be rather easy for one person to get out and call for help.

3. If none of the other options were available, I probably would have adjusted the binding of my one ski to Richard's boot length, and my other ski to Lee's boot length. I would have bootpacked out while they would have the worst skins of their lives. But I think that would be the last option.

As the avi occurred at my best estimate around 2ish/2:30 I'm confident that I would have gotten a heli to them in that day. If I hadn't i'm confident that they would have survived the night with an emergency space blanket and a decent shelter.

Anyways, I'm not very experienced in this area, but the above sounds logical to me. Your thoughts?