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damn! that guy is pretty serious about leave no trace!Quote:
Originally Posted by Solesides
anyway, i have a theta sl and a sidewinder sv, both are extremely well designed and the quality is second to none.
the only caveat is that arcteryx products are typically extremely expensive (keep your eyes out for sale pricing ,that was the only way i could afford to purchase them).
I got an older Beta ,love it ,like the alpin cut ,have used it skiing,bike touring , as a sea kayak jacket and it still looks good on the champs elysees
Interesting... mebbe the old AR was replaced by the SV. Because a few years ago, the MX was made from PowerShield Light and the AR from reg. PowerShield... ie. MX had thinner fleece lining bonded to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Check this out: Arcteryx Zeta Jacket
I checked the Polartec website and the "Powershield O2" is apparently a bit more breathable than standard Powershield, but probably much more water-resistant than Schoeller Dryskin (which is what I assume people mean when they say "schoeller"--and that they're not talking about WB-400).
Well, I am going to try to get my hands on all 3 (Zeta, Gamma AR, Gamma MX) and do a non-scientific test (read: try on in the store and run up the stairs to see what feels like it breaths the best).
Obviously the Zeta will breath the best, but may compromise some warmth. That is one of my minor grips with schoeller (yes Scut - the Dryskin).... you get cold quick the second you stop moving.
I don't think you want to buy any of these jackets for warmth -- only for wind and wetness protection. Add fleece for warmth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
IMO if you don't get cold when you stop you are overdressed.
So people seem to say that for hardshells, eVent breathes better than Gore-tex (all the diff grades of Gore-tex?), does that mean in turn that Gore-tex is more waterproof?
I want to get a shell this winter for resort and short touring (day trips only at this point). I'll be moving to Vancouver next year so will be at Whistler/Baker most of the time. I sweat a lot, very easily, so I want max breathability. I don't spend much time doing ski related things in downpour.
Should I be looking at eVent (if so what brands) or is Goretex Arc'teryx the way to go?
I got the wife a Sidewinder AR rep sample on eBay last year, saved about $150 off retail I think, she loves it.
eVent is supposed to be just as waterproof as Gore and much more breathable. The Westcomb stuff looks to be very well made, very similar to Arc'teryx in all details, maybe even better executed. Just wish both brands didn't do the alpine cut (short front/long back). I don't have any experience with eVent however myself.
Armada is using eVent so it will be interesting to see their aplication of the product.
I recently got a Westcomb Mirage (eVent) hardshell. It is frankly the best made, nicest jacket I have ever owned. Based on studies (have not used yet), eVent is just as waterproof as gortex, but WAY more breathable.
If I was looking for a hardshell, I would absolutely be looking for eVent.
As far as Westcomb, you can see the other "Westcomb" thread (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...light=westcomb), but my experience with their customer service has been steallar. The stuff is made in Canada (if that is an issue for you). Also, it is worth noting that the company is founded by ex-Arcteryx designers, so the (i) design, (ii) cut and (iii) quality is pretty similar.
Yep :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Oakley has jumped on the eVent wagon as well. Just too bad they make a shit outerwear product.
WOW - amazing quote by the Westcomb founder (both humorous, a great jab at Arcteryx and great propoganda):Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUTSKI
Quote:
Said Westcomb founder Alan Yiu: “This ruling validates what we’ve said since the start of this whole thing – that Westcomb’s designs are uniquely ours. Now we can get back to pushing the boundaries in outdoor apparel, and putting our resources into developing category-defining products instead of into legal-defense fees.”
“Not that we’ve got anything against lawyers, especially ours,” he added. “They look great wearing Westcomb jackets.”
You're confusing these softshells (all of which have fleece bonded to the inside surface) with reg. hardshells or windbreakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chnaiur
The Gamma and Zeta are used for both for protection against the elements (none of them is waterproof, though) and for warmth.
Sure, they ain't as warm as a down jacket, but thats not their purpose either...
I have had a sidewinder sv for about 8 years (maybe 9?) and it has held up great. I have only had to send it in once for a busted zipper. I would still recommend an eVent jacket, though. Much more breathable, though probably will tear more easily than an SV Arc.
If you are getting an arcteryx definitely get the SV.
Thanks for the info guys. I've heard of Westcomb being really high quality so I will try to check it out next time I am in Vancouver or something (doubt it is sold up here).
Looks like Armada makes an eVent shell and another jacket that is eVent plus lining. The shell is $490US on BC with a mad steezy colour option, will be interested to read reviews on it http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorge.../ARM0129M.html
Worth noting that REI (in US) also makes an eVent shell (the "Shuskan") that is around $250-$300 and gets pretty good reviews. REI stuff is definitely becoming higher quality.
I handled the Shuskan eVent pants - they are actually very bomber feeling.
...The way to go UCL....I bought online! a [something] AR Jacket, the lighter one..NOT the alpine jacket....~3-4yrs back...in late March. Seem to remember it was the dealer's last one=sale. Seem to think also it might have been a "return"?...*cuz it didn't breathe at all...just about froze on a nice 40deg bluebird day in April... Was sweatin' a creek inside jacket before even taking off the trekkers:rolleyes:....Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
*Got to try on an eVent drytop this past spring....really nice feeling!
$.01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Okay, I am in the hard shell market, and this thread seems to be about as close as it comes to my question/quandary. I want something for touring, and also the winter bus/walk to work in snow/wetness.
I am looking at picking up either the ArcTeryx Beta AR, or the Westcomb Mirage.
There isn't a local dealer that carries Westcomb (at least not that I've found), so all I have for comparison is the ArcTeryx. I like the fit of the Beta AR a whole lot. And it is about 100g lighter than the Mirage (according to manufacturers).
Is there anyone out there that has owned or tried on both? Would you say these are comparable in terms of fit? Features (other than removable powder skirt on the mirage)? eVent vs. Pro Shell? Construction?
Thanks.
Edit, I should've searched longer... one question answered from this thread:
So mostly I am just looking for feedback from anyone who has considered both, and made a decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Also, it looks like they changed the Mirage slightly from 09/10 to 10/11.
I have not seen a 10/11 mirage in the flesh, but they do look great. Looks like they've changed the colors up and raised the pockets so accessible while wearing a pack waist strap.
I have a new 09/10 Mirage. Fit is very similar to Beta (only tried on the Beta) with the Beta being a bit shorter in the torso, which I like.
The rest is Pro Shell vs eVent.
I found this quite informative for the main difs between the two:
http://www.climbers-shop.com/Waterproofs.aspx
I think Gore breaths very well and I am a heavy sweater. The Mirage I have is brand new so I don't know how much better it breaths, but all claims seem to indicate it's a very noticeable difference.
Oh, and Deadmonton...if you're in Edmonton, are a size medium and want a great deal on said Mirage above, PM me. It was an impulse buy and I doubt I'm going to use it.
Thanks, good info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Sizzler
Unfortunately not a medium, or I'd be all over it.
What made you decide for the Mirage over the Vapor FX? I'm having a hard time choosing between these.
I live in europe but intend to pick these up on my next visit to NY next month. Sadly, I can't compare the models myself due to availability.
Ps: pant recommendations are also always welcome.
Bumped the [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3028380"]Westcomb thread[/ame] to respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorda
Exactly! That's why I sold my sidewinder sv -I just could not put up with the collar scratching my chin raw. I bought a Norrona Lofoten for this season. I've not skied in it yet but it has an amazing construction. To Norrona is what Arcteyrx was 10yrs ago. Everything is made in house at their factory in Norway. Not as minimalist as the dead bird but very functional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparwood Dave
^I have a norrona lofoten hybrid jacket- hardshell shoulders/arms/chest, softshell stomach, back, underarms. It was a great coat: super breathable, pretty good against snow or drizzle, great features (esp. hood), but the seams at the shoulders started coming apart after only one season, and the hanging loop came about halfway off. That being said, Norrona was super cool about warrantee (I emailed them photos and exchanged with backcountry) so I'd probably buy from them again as long as their warrantee policy stays the same and I can get it on sale. (that bright red pro-shell one piece looks like something I might have to grab if it was 70 percent off on SAC.)
edit: since this is an arc't thread, I should probably add something about them- I've had an Alpha SV for 6 or 7 years now, and it's probably one of the most bomber pieces of equipment I own. It's an XCR model and doesn't breathe well at all, but I can wear it in a full-on downpour and stay totally dry as long as I'm not generating much moisture. It has the best hood of anything I've worn, and is my favorite thing for long, shitty lift rides and walks in the rain.
I wash 2-3 times/year with either the nikwax or granger's cleaning/sealing products. I need to do some stain removal before this season's cleaning session- I've heard Goop works well and is safe. I've always used the wash-in sealer, but I've heard the spray works better. Might try using the wash-in, then using the spray on the high wear areas? Seems like best of both worlds? <this discussion belongs in another thread, which I might go find later today...>
vorda, i looked at the Vapor in detail. I hate those wrist gator things (can just be cut out), but I prefered the low key design of the Mirage as opposed to the two big front bellows pockets of the Vapor. Also, the Vapor that i tried was the '08 version and honestly, I don't think Westcomb had worked out the sizing yet: the waist was very tight in the medium and really should not have been. I do not believe that is the case on the '09's and newer...just go with the style you prefer in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorda
I still prefer the Arc'teryx Stingray over all. i love that Gore soft shell as the little bit of insulation it provides just adds further to it's versatility. The only drawback with the softshell is it's not quite a packable as proshell or eVent.