any mason's - need some help

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Originally posted by splat
elevens - pm me. I've built a couple. It's a great chance to build a great fireplace that will provide ample heat by utilizing convection to move air as if fan-forced - but without a fan. It's all in the firebox and the venting of cold to hot air around it.

Basically a slab mount (with a clean-out, if you want), a metal firebox any welder can make, the lintel (crucial for how it drafts) and a chimney with ceramic tile liner. Then just river rock the exterior and you have a kill fireplace.

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Splat , interested in that also. Though I'm thinking of shelf rock as opposed to round river rock. Like the idea that the rock is the structure rather than some structure underneath , block etc, with the river rock 'glued" on for the look.

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Originally posted by Spicoli
The word lintel has now been used, this is no longer a fireplace gaper thread.

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[wanky pedant]Where I come from a lintel goes over a door and a mantel goes over a fireplace. I still consider myself a fireplace gaper, although my first chalet as a chalet "boy" did burn down so I know a bit about fires. Hence I became known as a firestarter. :) [/wp]

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Originally posted by DougW
Splat , interested in that also. Though I'm thinking of shelf rock as opposed to round river rock. Like the idea that the rock is the structure rather than some structure underneath , block etc, with the river rock 'glued" on for the look.

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Whether it's ledgestone or river rock, you still have make an airspace between the metal firebox and cement blocks if you want a convective fireplace that draws cold air in at the bottom and pushes it out hot above. This is done by making slots in the rocks at the sides or beneath the firebox to draw cold in and circulate around the firebox and go out slots up high where a mantle would be. It's better, I think, to have block to attach the stone veneer to. And the weight involved requires a damn sturdy slab as a foundation. You can do it pioneer style with all rock, but I'd go with square cement blocks for sturdiness and sealing purposes. I once bought an old square firebox and had a welder attach a arched metal front to it for visual appeal and it worked great. There might be a shot of the fireplace in the Battered Beaver in the Summit thread. I rebuilt that fireplace and it came out great.

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Originally posted by train07
Research Count Rumford .
Basom, you're be typn on some good drugs there aren't you?

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i may be on drugs. but that is no excuse for my horrible spelling.

[nerd]

Step 1.
Research local building codes

Step 2.
Research your home owner's policy references to fireplaces, chimneys, DIY.

You're gonna be hating if the toaster starts a fire but the claim gets denied b/c your creation isn't up to code
[/nerd]

[/nerd]

[/nerd]

[/NERD]

oh god, I can't shut it off... oh no...has it been on all along? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

These days it's hard as hell to install or keep a woodburning fireplace (EPA particulate guidelines). But if you are upgrading an existing one, you can probably do it. Rumford-type fireplaces are pretty easy to build, but not that efficient. I like fireplaces that actually heat a house.

Fireplaces are pretty, and a well-made one can throw a ton of heat as long as someone's tending it, but to try to heat a house with one is crazy talk, man.

A good woodstove is a shitload more efficient, can be regulated and can run all night. I have one of each in my house, the fireplace is for company and "mood-setting" (nudgenudgewinkwinksaynomore), the woodstove is for heat.

I still don't get why elevens is bound and determined to rip his fireplace and chimney out: Is it in danger of collapse? If not, his plan seems foolhardy to me.

Oh, ice, don't go gettin all city on us. Fireplaces rock. Ambience up the whazoo. Plus, if you know how to build and bank a fire, they really will heat a house. If there's not a structural issue, elevens could probably reline the flue and do a cosmetic veneer job and end up with a fully functional fireplace for a lot less. But with all the EPA rules on no new woodburning fireplaces being allowed in a lot of places, I'd make every effort to keep it. The day after tomorrow is comin, ya know.........

City? Shit.

Every high-end apartment in Manhattan has a fireplace, none of 'em have woodstoves.

I do not surrender!

An oscillating light shining on colored tin foil is NOT a fireplace, ice.

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Originally posted by splat
An oscillating light shining on colored tin foil is NOT a fireplace, ice.

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If it gets her in the mood who cares?

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Originally posted by splat
An oscillating light shining on colored tin foil is NOT a fireplace, ice.

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Heh, you still do not win, bastardo.

In every possible way, except for the mood-makin' shit, woodstoves kick fireplaces ASS!!!

I heated with wood for seven years, until the babies were born and there wasn't enough heat in their rooms (way in the back).

So bring it!

lol. No beef with woodstoves. They really do kick ass. Lots of years I never hit the furnace button when I had a woodstove.
But what really kicks ass are chimney fires!

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Originally posted by splat
But what really kicks ass are chimney fires!

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Sounds like a damn tornado, which everyone says sounds like a freight train, so I guess they sound like a freight train.

Chimney sweep once a year kept that shit away from us.

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Originally posted by splat
These days it's hard as hell to install or keep a woodburning fireplace (EPA particulate guidelines). But if you are upgrading an existing one, you can probably do it. Rumford-type fireplaces are pretty easy to build, but not that efficient. I like fireplaces that actually heat a house.

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Splatster(and elevens).. Rumford was THE MAN in his time, retrofitting countless inefficient squatty fireboxes to his new concept.I've had two Rumfords built in my house and these can cook you right out of the room if you let them..I'm guessing your design is comparable to the Rumford principles where the smoke shelf, lintel, throat, and slant of backwall dictate how efficient this thing will be....these will heat a house but won't compete with a wood stove. Ain't nothng like the ambience of a 1700s Rumford.
Hey, elevens...where do you live?

By the way my grandmother had one of those oscillating light and foil fireplaces in Wilkesbury Pa. Oh yeah, serious ambience..

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Originally posted by basom
i may be on drugs. but that is no excuse for my horrible spelling.

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uh, yeah it is....

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Originally posted by train07
Splatster(and elevens).. Rumford was THE MAN in his time, retrofitting countless inefficient squatty fireboxes to his new concept.I've had two Rumfords built in my house...

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That's interesting. The Rumford design doesn't look like it would push out that much heat, but that's just my opinion. I only say that because of the firebrick interior - circulating air around behind a metal firebox seems (to me) to be more effective. But on the Rumford site it shows the ceramic retrofit they slide in and do the remodel in a day all the way out the top of the roof.

Ever hear how masons would guarantee that they got paid?

They'd lay a piece of glass across the flue halfway up the chimney.
When the check cleared, they'd drop a brick down it.

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Originally posted by splat

Ever hear how masons would guarantee that they got paid?

They'd lay a piece of glass across the flue halfway up the chimney.
When the check cleared, they'd drop a brick down it. [/B]

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I've been on so many jobsites where the lunch time banter rolled around to that conversation........somebody always knew somebody who put the sheet of glass in the works and then later dropped the brick. I heard it so many times in so many different areas (and states)......but these guys always spoke like, "oh yeah, I know a guy who......". I finally came to the conclusion this is folklore....somebody probably was smart enough to forsee a problem with the payment some where.....but those guys who claim first hand knowledge of so and so kill me.
Splatster, I like your idea, but believe me an authentic Rumford cranks heat into the room.


Good Luck elevens. Hope you save that fireplace.

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Originally posted by splat
Whether it's ledgestone or river rock, you still have make an airspace between the metal firebox and cement blocks if you want a convective fireplace that draws cold air in at the bottom and pushes it out hot above. This is done by making slots in the rocks at the sides or beneath the firebox to draw cold in and circulate around the firebox and go out slots up high where a mantle would be. It's better, I think, to have block to attach the stone veneer to. And the weight involved requires a damn sturdy slab as a foundation. You can do it pioneer style with all rock, but I'd go with square cement blocks for sturdiness and sealing purposes. I once bought an old square firebox and had a welder attach a arched metal front to it for visual appeal and it worked great. There might be a shot of the fireplace in the Battered Beaver in the Summit thread. I rebuilt that fireplace and it came out great.

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I see now. Have seen designs lately where they use metal samwich construction with a 2-3" gap between the plates with flat bar in the gap forcing the air to go make a back and forth path. Probably to much resistane for natural convection but would put out a lot of heat with a fan.

Yes a full stone fireplace would need a very good foundation but that what free 3/4" rebar is for. Like that idea of the high heat storage just from the mass of the natural stone.