ON3P SKIS Discussion

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

FWIW, I have a LOT of experience with Edgeworks/Evo Denver, and while Matt (former Edgeworks owner, current head of Evo tune shop) is hands down one of the best ski techs on the Front Range, like most other shops they tend to leave the edges on the sharp side. I ALWAYS detuned my skis that came back from him. Actually, I now tell all shops to not detune and do it myself regardless of who tunes them.

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Should have made more clear that it would have been ON3P not detuning enough post evo tune, as well. Just easier when we do it in Portland.

It's also possible that they were sharp coming from the factory (not the first time we're rushing a demo fleet out, especially when we used to attend SIA).

And 100% on the last bit. You are likely going to have to touch it up regardless.

Yeah, this is not a knock on Edgeworks/Evo. They do great work. The skis are flat and the bevels are correct when you get skis back from them. There are three shops on the Front Range I trust to tune my skis; Evo, Larson's, and Denver Sports Lab.
I detune from ALL of them.
Nobody else can even get the bevels correct so no point in even talking about the detune.

Adrenalated detunes in jeans.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

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Weird to have an ON3P spokesperson defending a forum so widely known for and proud of its abrasive tone (TGR, not this thread) and reprimanding me for repeating a question (I didn't, the first post was asking if the hooky feel was common, the second was asking how the skis skied without the hooky tune. You know, making conversation about skis on a forum for conversation about skis), but whatever. I appreciate the offer for info, I didn't buy them new and wouldn't bother the manufacturer to solve my problems without giving them money. If I can't figure them out, I'll maybe try a pair of Kartels, I'd like to have a pair of ON3P's I like, and maybe these aren't them.

also, FWIW, I went to the Loveland demo day last season. The conditions sucked, dust on shitty hard crust. Not the best scenario to get a feel for skis, but weather is weather. Maybe this year.

I knew a dude who detuned his butter knife in college. It was f’d for bagel slicing but could schmere a good cream cheese lather. If you are getting “hookiness” on any ski - go check out the souls 7. Got my cousins from SD on them and pure happiness

Hur hur hur. Case in point.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Nobody else can even get the bevels correct so no point in even talking about the detune.

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yep, i only have a shop belt and stone grind skis flat for me

get em home and check flatness with a true bar, even note structure in the base edges - then bust out the beast base beveler and edge beveler and file/diamond stones...good times

and of course after egdes are set - total detune

Auvgeek: the requested wren 108 vs wren 114 profile pics - seems pretty similar/identical to me:
Attachment 251061Attachment 251063Attachment 251062

Since i love wren108s, I also decided to get some new wren 108s when i ordered the aforementioned w114s. The idea was to get a white, matte ski to hopefully make em a bit better for touring due to less snow sticking to the top sheet - ref the suggested WrenegadeTour graphic that caused so much... debate. Time will tell if there is any difference between the two top sheets, but if nothing else - steeple116 graphics sure as hell look nice imo (even if the stock wren graphics are pretty awesome as hell).

I do not know if there is a significant change in the 179cm lay up / core dimensions - ref the Blister review. These two pairs feel different, but just ever so slightly. The tail end of the ski feels pretty similar, the mid perhaps a touch softer for the 2019 ones (could be stiffer front that makes the center more prone to flex - dunno), and the front - can't really tell. No night and day difference for sure. Differences might become more apparent after a bit of use as the new pair gets worn in a bit, or could just be differences in the build process or materials used. Both pairs of 179s are a fair bit stiffer in the front half of the ski - especially the shovels - than the 184s i used to own. Go figure eh. Flex, shape and rocker design are still nigh on perfect imho - wren 108s are just such an awesome ski imho.

I will prob mount shifts on the new pair instead of the tectons that was the original plan. A 2250gr ski is a lot of ski to drag around during longer touring days, so will probably mount the tectons on some light weight touring specific skis instead.

Attachment 251064

holy crap iggy - that is some mighty impressive CS over your last few posts! Really appreciated. :)

Steeple topsheets are so money.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

That said, chance for me to float out the "if you pay for it, we'll build it" option within our custom capacity. That is likely the future of the Wren 114, Supergoat, 174cm Wren 96, etc. Stuff that we want to offer, but that it's hard to sit on inventory for. Lady Goat + maybe a shorter Wren 108 would possibility be in the same boat.

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I think that's a great model. Would you price them as a custom ski or as a stock ski, "built to order?" Personally, it'd be best for the consumer if you priced them as a stock ski (built to order with a stock flex and chosen topsheet, maybe in small runs/group buys for increased efficiency), and also offered them as part of the customs program so people could tweak the core/flex/topsheet. But that may not be price effective for the labor involved.

hey iggyskier ... anything to talk about with regard to the prototype metal skis you were trying out?
Feedback from the skiers? Good, bad, ugly? Do you think they'll ever see production?

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Originally Posted by N1CK.

hey iggyskier ... anything to talk about with regard to the prototype metal skis you were trying out?
Feedback from the skiers? Good, bad, ugly? Do you think they'll ever see production?

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Curious about this, too... though I can already sense iggy shaking his head in disbelief at the chronic fidgetation of his customers.

He told me this yesterday

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

Probably a lot more like it once it has metal.

Which BTW - V - would certainly be something I am sure you could get your hands on sooner than later if Volkl falls through.

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Sounds like its working out for the best!!!

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Curious about this, too... though I can already sense iggy shaking his head in disbelief at the chronic fidgetation of his customers.

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I doubt there's much disbelief honestly. I mean he's doing what he's doing for a reason. But I eventually I expect to hear "If you want it, you fuckers should build it"

In more tactful language of course

If you build it, they will come


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Originally Posted by Norseman

Curious about this, too... though I can already sense iggy shaking his head in disbelief at the chronic fidgetation of his customers.

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This thread got me to order some custom billy goats. I am close to stoked enough to order some metal wrens too, though I would also seriously consider the Moment Commanders.

The issue with metal, for me at least, is that I really like modern shapes but edge hold on icy shit is important on the narrow end (<100 mm) of the quiver. Haven't found a ski without metal that bites on ice like titanal sandwich construction without being as locked into a turn. I sort of wonder if it's a torsional rigidity issue which is why ON3P/Moment's rocker profiles + metal are so intriguing.

I feel like Metal wrens would have the “bite” I’m looking for

Damn I’m heating up from W114s

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Actually, I now tell all shops to not detune and do it myself regardless of who tunes them.

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Same. And with skis that have a deep rocker line (like most ON3P models), you really need to de-tune the shit out of them, further down and more than most people think. Learning to tune your own skis is important IMO because over time you learn to be consistent with your own tastes and get a feel for how much any given ski will need just from looking at the sidecut and profile.

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Originally Posted by nomad_games

Weird to have an ON3P spokesperson defending a forum so widely known for and proud of its abrasive tone (TGR, not this thread) and reprimanding me for repeating a question (I didn't, the first post was asking if the hooky feel was common, the second was asking how the skis skied without the hooky tune. You know, making conversation about skis on a forum for conversation about skis), but whatever. I appreciate the offer for info, I didn't buy them new and wouldn't bother the manufacturer to solve my problems without giving them money. If I can't figure them out, I'll maybe try a pair of Kartels, I'd like to have a pair of ON3P's I like, and maybe these aren't them.

also, FWIW, I went to the Loveland demo day last season. The conditions sucked, dust on shitty hard crust. Not the best scenario to get a feel for skis, but weather is weather. Maybe this year.

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NG - politely, if what was taken from my post was just a reprimand and defending snarky comments, I would hope that you give it a reread from a different point of view. As I long time member, my goal was to shed light on the responses you were getting while standing up for the community as a member, not an ON3P spokesperson, in regards to some high quality answers, mixed in with some internet snark, to your initial rounds of questions.

I'm not taking sides one way or the other here on posts like "how about I take your defective skis off your hands" and such. I'm certainly not the moral arbiter of the forum nor do I have any say in the content or tone of the forum besides my own - which I hope you can see tries to be fair, thorough, and thoughtful.

I fully agree that your second question was glossed over, which is why when responding to you, it was the first thing I discussed. In doing so, I pointed out why I thought others likely viewed it as a rehashing of previous conversation.

TGR can certainly be rough around the edges - and there is a base level of snark here that exists - including over the last couple pages. At the same time, I think it is worth stating that, excluding a few replies, the responses received were earnest, from members with their own experiences and insights, specific to your issue and how to help. That is why I defend the discussions here, because I don't believe there is a better place to discuss skis online.

I hope you stay, continue asking questions, and don't let just this experience + TGR reputation color your experience here. Most TGR interactions are positive, and the more activity we have, the better the discussions will be. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe that.

As for help on the skis, they are still our skis. I'm happy to help, regardless of where you bought them. Just give us a call and ask for me (Scott) if you want to walk through the tune at all. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

I think that's a great model. Would you price them as a custom ski or as a stock ski, "built to order?" Personally, it'd be best for the consumer if you priced them as a stock ski (built to order with a stock flex and chosen topsheet, maybe in small runs/group buys for increased efficiency), and also offered them as part of the customs program so people could tweak the core/flex/topsheet. But that may not be price effective for the labor involved.

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It would need to be custom. The is no scale to get pricing down to a stock model. A group-buy window would mitigate that, but they tend to take a lot of effort to organize. Once that window is passed it would be just like any other custom ski. Would be difficult to justify when we can just keep building and selling stock Kartel 96/108, Wren 108, and Magnus 102, plus some new stuff that will likely be pretty high volume. We're aiming to continue to expand our custom program, as with our finite capacity, margins make a huge difference for us.

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Originally Posted by N1CK.

hey iggyskier ... anything to talk about with regard to the prototype metal skis you were trying out?
Feedback from the skiers? Good, bad, ugly? Do you think they'll ever see production?

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It's good. But we ran out of winter. Unless something comes up, it will get there.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Curious about this, too... though I can already sense iggy shaking his head in disbelief at the chronic fidgetation of his customers.

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More of a fist shake, why me?! type action. Sunday it was in full effect.

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Originally Posted by abraham

I doubt there's much disbelief honestly. I mean he's doing what he's doing for a reason. But I eventually I expect to hear "If you want it, you fuckers should build it"

In more tactful language of course

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Language is appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

I feel like Metal wrens would have the “bite” I’m looking for

Damn I’m heating up from W114s

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As a gift to me....promise me you will ski ALL your current skis. All the new Moments, Praxis, whatever....

10 days. Each. Minimum. Before you even consider selling. It will expand your knowledge base on the skis a ton - make you a better skier as you get comfortable on the skis - and help you better find the perfect ski (which doesn't exist, even though we all keep looking).

As for us, be patient on skis. Possibly some new stuff you might want coming down the pipeline. You have a great quiver to rock out on until then.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Same. And with skis that have a deep rocker line (like most ON3P models), you really need to de-tune the shit out of them, further down and more than most people think. Learning to tune your own skis is important IMO because over time you learn to be consistent with your own tastes and get a feel for how much any given ski will need just from looking at the sidecut and profile.

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We're fully detuning all the way to running length now, and going pretty heavy within the running length. So, on some skis, that is well into the skis effective edge.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

We're fully detuning all the way to running length now, and going pretty heavy within the running length. So, on some skis, that is well into the skis effective edge.

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That's good to hear. I'm just talking about if you take them into a shop to get tuned again - as adrenalated mentioned, they almost never detune far enough (for me anyway). Even the best shops with Wintersteigers. Great for base grinds though!

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Originally Posted by PowTron

Adrenalated detunes in jeans.

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Fact.

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Originally Posted by N1CK.

Plus I'm a shitty skier, so that adds to the mystery!

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I hope you don't mind if I steal this for my signature. Perfection.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

As a gift to me....promise me you will ski ALL your current skis. All the new Moments, Praxis, whatever....

10 days. Each. Minimum. Before you even consider selling. It will expand your knowledge base on the skis a ton - make you a better skier as you get comfortable on the skis - and help you better find the perfect ski (which doesn't exist, even though we all keep looking).

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Iggy weighs in on TGR gear-whore ignorance (with a smile)...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AmusingSan...restricted.gif

Also, here.
And here.

Ya Ima wait till 2020 season

I have already skied a lot of these skis before. I would need to get 150 days in to get 10 days on each. Definitely doable..


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