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Or how about this: "I haven't been back there in years since my knee surgery. It was great to see that old tree where we used to have lunch. I'm glad this thing helped me get out there again."Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
How hard is this to understand? It's just a tiny amount of putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.
And in some places, electric mopeds are appropriate and some they are not, but they are not bikes. They have motors and bikes do not have motors.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
All your comparisons to ski versus snowboards or fat skis versus skinny dont work because there are no motors involved. Skinny tires versus fat tires is not the same as bicycle versus electric moped.
Everything isnt suppose to be easy. That is not an elitist statement.
Ban all carbon frames! Ban all sidpension! Ban all 11+speed drivetrains!Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Making mtb too easy!!
Or man this is a beautiful view. It was so worth the 5000ft climb to get here. Not another person anywhere, and just a ribbon of single track and a small dirt patch around the perfect rock to sit and have lunch for impact. Wildlife, wildflowers..Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
And off you ride, down about 3500ft before rejoining the masses..
Once it's easy to get there the place is full of people, fully impacted, the small patch of dirt is now bigger than a house. Cigarette butts mix with the dusty pebbles.
There are awesome places you can drive a car to. Others you can drive 4wheeler jeeps. Motorcycles, dirt bikes. Some you can only walk.
That's ok. Everyone cannot have everything and everything cannot be easy.
When I moved to Colorado after high school, a rider could ride tons of stuff around here, jeep trails, dirtbikes, atvs...etc were all the same thing more-or-less. Now it's all locked down, and stratified into mtb trails where they're all routed through rocks and roots so the rich kids can play with the expensive bikes, and the rest of what I used to ride is grown over. So it's frustrating to have gone from the situation you describe, where most riders could just get out there on any fat tire bike and people were friendly, to a serious scene where people put on their lycra and parade their expensive stuff in the parking lot and the trails they've built are....as I've said 100 times now.....not built to be ridden on a cheap bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
The entire county has undergone a huge transition in 30 years. Part of that transition has been that mountain biking...on mtb trails (not around town on bike paths and to the store or whatever) is now a serious, expensive thing done by people willing to spend thousands of dollars on it. There are a shit ton of old mountain bikes being ridden around town on bike paths and walking trails and whatnot, but that's not what we're talking about in this thread. The only handful of times I've seen anybody out on a cheap bike on our trail system they've been walking the bike, or injured next to it, or they fucked up and thought they could take a shortcut somewhere and now they're walking their bike over the rocks.
But it's not really about what I like, or what I personally want. I just have an issue with the elitism that says "what we do is the only acceptable use for this public space....take it or leave it."
Your fundamentalist value system is the only valid way of thinking....etc. My guess is this is going to look ridiculous in 10 years the same way I can find my own posts from 1997 ripping on fat skis and helmets...."skis for intermediates to pretend to ski powder".... it's stupid, people just want an easier way to go do something fun and you want to insist they do it the hard way. In my compromised physical state, I find that whole hardcore mentality lame. Pretty sure if I had a bike I didn't have to pedal hard, I could be out riding now. If I could ride a gasgas out on that stuff I'd be out there every day. The granola mafia keeps it for their little Carbon Fiber Owners Club. It is what it is.
Yeah well, if I could afford a plane ticket and the time off work right now I would come over there and shred the shit out of those trails on my cheap steel hardtail.
I dont believe your trails are that gnarly...
Especially when the trend just about everywhere has been to build ride arounds and make trails more beginner/family friendly.
I really dont think you live in a weird, super gnarly anomaly.
You're inherently better than those other people so that place should be reserved for people of your caliber.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
geez that's not elitist at all
I get it, I don't want to be spending every time I'm at the beach picking up cig butts, and bumping elbows with 50 people in the lineup where I surf, so I get it. I get it. I try to curb those elitist instincts though, because it's everyone's space. I also find it difficult when people are slobs in the outdoors. But I don't think pedal-assist mountain bikes are really the same level of sensory insult as some of the things you're comparing them with. So far, I just see a guy riding and go "shit, that guy's in better shape than he looks" and then realize it's an ebike....or some tracks on a sandy spot where a normal bike would have a tough time maintaining momentum. It's not even close to the experience of hearing the dirtbike from across the canyon and seeing a bunch of roostruts everywhere.
Still polishing on that asshole quotient I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
You conveniently skip over the whole motors things.
If E-cycle advocates want to try and shift the argument that is up to them.
I agree that on the surface E-cycles are less noisy than a 2 or 4 Stroke ICE, pollute some what less and are different animals when it comes to power bands. That does not change the fact that they still have a motor.
I find it offensive that Bicycle Companies are now trying to expand their line by piggybacking onto an existing type of non-motorized recreation by blurring the lines over what is a Bicycle.
In my opinion E-cycle advocates need to form their own Orgs and lobby for their own access. For mountain bikers there is no upside in having them as allies. Any areas that will be open to them will also be open to Mtn Bikes. The opposite will not be true and could cause further losses of access..
I rode all that stuff all last year on a cheap steel hardtail. Wrecking wheels. Wrecking my body. Riding super slow in sections where the flow of the trail was built for a lot more speed. Not "impossible"...just not enjoyable. Trails full of rocks and roots, not built for that kind of bike. You wouldn't die, but your bike and body would take a beating.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
But I guess that's kind of the big divide in values here: you want to take a beating...that's something you value. Other people don't. Those differences aren't a big deal until one group starts forcing the other one to comply with their view.
You better win this race, coming up. Just sayin’Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Go on now
A CR500 can do 0-60 faster than any motorcycle I've ever ridden. A good rider can send hundred foot airs without any issue. My CR500 was the fastest, most violent machine I've ever operated....you literally couldn't ride it without tearing the shit out of everything because it was so violently powerful. If some guy hits a tree with that, out on a trail, and the thing lays over and the exhaust starts a grass fire and the thing spills gas and oil into the stream and getting the 300 lb machine and the injured rider out of the woods is a huge ordeal, that's what the non-moto regs are trying to deal with. It's not even close to the same thing as a bicycle that's been made easier to pedal by a silent electric motor. It's not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not bunion
You guys continue to vastly underestimate the difference between a dirtbike and a pedal-assist bicycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
Its not about winning a race. It's about riding the trails. I wont win the race. I'm pretty sure of that. I'll ride the trails, tho. I wont cry I need an ebike because the trails are too hard.
I ride a steel hardtail. Nobody else I ride with rides a hardtail.
Some trails are hard enough that they arent fun, or too hard all together.
I don't complain about those trails. I dont want them to make them easier so I can ride them. I just dont ride them.. yet.
Shut upQuote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
This is your local trail system. Are you telling me all those green and blue trails are too hard?Attachment 242708Attachment 242707Attachment 242706Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Not a lot of videos linked on trailforks but these pictures of Gorge-ous make me think it would be a blast on a hardtail... they call it a single black.
Attachment 242709Attachment 242710Attachment 242711Attachment 242712Attachment 242713
I'm just one of the people willing to put forth the effort to get to that particular spot. If you arent willing to put forth the effort, then you wont get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Lots of places I haven't put forth the effort for yet, and a lot I probably never will.
It's not elitist.
I told you many, many things and that was not one of the things.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Yes, I'm telling you they're "harder" for people of average means and average fitness to go enjoy than what was there prior to the mtb takeover of those areas. You don't care, because your pov of cycling is an elitist pov that doesn't consider people of average means and average fitness worthy of enjoyable access. They have to do it the hard way because that's how you like to do it.
Not made for cheap bikes:
But, this has been an exercise in people just vastly missing my points:
Wife and I saw a cop on an ebike last week, he was riding a really loaded-up fat tire bike pretty easily up a hill and I said hey there's an ebike. Wife says "no, that guy's just in really good shape. I saw him earlier, his legs are huge."
And it could have been either, who knows.....but the point is that if that guy was riding a motorcycle we damn sure wouldn't have thought "hey maybe that's just a really fast loud bicycle with no pedals".
I can't find that trail on the map.
Are you saying that eliminating motors made the trail system not accessible to average people?
Is it all the trails that are too hard?
I guess I dont get it. Mountain biking is hard. It's always been hard. That's just the way it is.
I dont see how that is elitist.
This trail looks super fun and I dont see why you couldn't ride a hard tail on it. I think the guy in front is on a hardtail actually.
http://youtu.be/-gp_ozbow7Y
I'm saying it used to be enjoyable for everyone, now one group has taken it over and excluded the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Could they theoretically access the trail system on foot or by way of huffing and puffing and crashing around with an affordable bike? Yes. So "access" really wasn't my point. It's not like the people who used to 4wheel these areas just switched to bicycles and granola and spinach and changed their basic personalities and got super healthy. They were just banned and they do other stuff now....so the carbon club has their area to themselves, with no peasants in the way.
Here is more footage and some level of discussion:
They say "tight-knit vibrant community"....I live here and see it's based on income. There's a tight-knit vibrant community at the yacht club and the golf resort too. There wasn't really a need for those same people to take over our forest trails too....but that's what they do.
Amazing, they're welcoming and friendly to other rich people from a bike magazine who come up here to publicize their land-grab trail system. Are they welcoming and friendly to their neighbor on a Honda? Nope, call the sheriff on that guy....he needs some granola and spinach and a big $ fine, then he can move to another town nearby that isn't trying to be Little Boulder of the North.
That brunet guy talking like some authority figure was a little neighborhood kid when I was riding my first mountain bikes around here in the 80s and early to mid 90s. I don't remember seeing him out there, and I would remember that. There were endless 2 track dirt roads and hunting trails anyone could ride on a bike or anything else. They wanted to turn all the 2 tracks and hunting trails into bmx type stuff as mountain bikes got better, and they wanted it all for themselves so they put chains and boulders on old trail entrances until they grew over and everyone else just gave up. I only really notice this because I was gone while it happened and I came back and it was like that Pretenders song. Pretty much everyone who was here for it all doesn't see it because it happened gradually.
It's fun to ride the 2 main DH trails. I still walk my DH bike up there.
It would be more fun to pedal an ebike up than to walk the DH bike up. I can't afford any of it really. I've sold the trail bike because all the riding here for that bike involved hard-pedaling I can't do now with my spine. I could likely ride that stuff if it didn't involve hard pedaling. My parents are the same way, they stopped riding trails when this whole "trail system" took it all over and turned it into bmx tracks for carbon fs bikes. People are dicks about my walking the dh bike up, they subtly imply I should be "going big" because it's such a ridiculous bike....but that's what I could afford, because the only affordable bikes are absurd DH oriented 50 pounders and steel hardtails. I had one of the hardest crashes of my life, including motorcycle crashes on pavement, including many hard fast ski crashes, including bus crashes, trying to ride the cheap steel hardtail on trails built for full susp bikes. So that's what I get here I guess. I'm one of the few normal-income, normal-fitness people out there. The supposedly uber-welcoming "bike community" here is oddly passive-aggressive about my being there. Cheap pickup truck? Cheap bicycle...no jersey? who is this interloper?!? Whatever. As I said, if it was like what you described I'd probably think about it differently....but it's not.
Really? I had no idea you speak for the Montana Wilderness Association or Alliance For the Wild Rockies and all their hair splitting about mechanized equipment and its place in wilderness and proposed Wilderness areas was so easily distilled down to your one example.Quote:
that's what the non-moto regs are trying to deal with
Look, I respect what you have to say but,
1. I am not saying it IS anything close to a CR-500.Quote:
it's not even close to the same thing as a bicycle that's been made easier to pedal by a silent electric motor. It's not even close.
You guys continue to vastly underestimating the difference between a dirtbike and a pedal-assist bicycle.
2. I think you may have meant over estimate and.
3. When the land agencies say a place is non-motorized they mean exactly that, small, silent or otherwise.
I think E-cycles have their place, friends who are pretty hard core riders have used them in Europe and had a blast. They were on trails that are open to E-cycles.
Today I rode a mellow 19 mile ride that starts at a trail head that is one of the 3 most popular access points in Bozeman. On a weekend there are all the user groups represented, once you get about 5 miles in you usually don't see many people. The area is well signed with plenty of tips on how to get along and it is non-motorized. There are still user conflicts.
Add in E-cycles and I think bikes would no longer be welcome inside of 3 years.
That place looks rad!Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Seriously, though, who owns the land that those trail systems are on?
There use to be a lot of moto use of Galby, but the place was trashed. Mountain bikers did take over... they convinced the land owners to allow them to stay versus kicking everyone out...
Anything goes land doesnt work as well as it use to. Increasing populations, increasing liabilities, increasing capabilities of machines...
A quick Google did show quite a few ORV areas nearby...
https://media.giphy.com/media/CbezwsaSQNilG/giphy.webpQuote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Ditch the helmet bud. What a pussy
Oh man. I cant wait to ride next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Ha! Great quote. I definitely see your point. The elitism creep has definitely sucked a lot of the soul out of MTBing, but it is a lot more fun overall these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Bikers in the 90s were masochists and strongly opinionated, that's why I liked them. It has gone soft with the easier trails, easier bikes, and all that, but I've gone soft too I guess. Lotta people back in the day were fueled by anger and depression and need an outlet like suffering on a bike, these days they are fueled by Luna Bars and having "No Bad Days". Still a bunch of masochists out there hating on ebikes though, for sure. On the flip side of this, MTB is not all dominated by males which is good. You'd never see two women biking together and now thankfully they are all over.
/norealpointhere
Bwaaaahahahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
What a terrible video.
1. It's the fastest growth segment, it's the only thing keeping local mountain bike shops open.
The same thing was said of:
- 29
- then 650b
- then fatbikes
- then boost
- then wide tires (2.8 to 4.0)
- then super boost
2. It can only mean more trail access and more trails for mountain bikers.
- not if trail managers and hiker/equestrian users close trails because motorized pretend to pedal eMopeds are illegally accessing trails designated non-motorized trails.
They claim to be "laying out a few facts". Then they fail to give any facts other than year over year growth number for the last two years [emoji849] (again, industry shills have used this useless and disingenuous claim previously for fatbikes, 29, 650b, etc etc etc) and give nothing but their opinion on what pretend to pedal bikes are going to do in the future as far as sales, longevity, and trail access. Then they throw out the same old "grow the sport" pablum, and then toss out a disclaimer that they don't really ride pretend to pedal bikes all that much in order to try to save face with any mountain bikers who actually follow their revenue generating YouTube channel.
I think they were just using countries that employed common sense at how that’s proven to work
#longlivetheimperialsystem
thats what she saidQuote:
Originally Posted by muted
but do you know they got pills for that now days and as my buddy the recovering MD tells me "they hand them , out like candy"
There’s some spray on in the NSFW thread
I can be convinced of anything if spoken to me in that dreamy Australian accent.Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless toboggan
Criminals. Every single one of em.Quote:
Originally Posted by HankScorpio
Hahaha, you're certainly not wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless toboggan
Oh be fair--some, I assume, are good people.
Big thanks to Mtngirl and Yeti for enumerating all the lateral elitist and counter-elitist arguments. I was (briefly) trying to figure out the difference between hating on trails you "can't" ride in (maybe) the funnest way and hating on people who want to go faster with less effort but you've convinced me: it's a bridge too far.
You've done this joke a few times before. But i deserve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
I dont hate anyone. A motor is a motor.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
Yeti is bitter. Bitterness sucks the life and happiness out of you...
eBikes will ruin powder days
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
That is something we should all think about.
A little tolerance goes a long way.
Today I rode my MTB Up Buttermilk at 6am.
Then I hiked up Aspen Mt and danced my ass off.
I’m thinking I might be pretty sore tomorrow and might need a lite day tomorrow.
What if I eBike up a road 3000ft, then take the battery off, put it in my pack and ride a shuttle trail back down?
but more importantly, people who use them are, as I learned in this thread, lazy faggot pussies.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
I have a lot of time to reflect on that last part as I drag my bitter slow ass up hills with the lycra people and the ebike people cruising past.....If the mtb people hadn't closed every place to ride here, I might have ended up using a motor, like a lazy faggot pussy. Thank goodness, all I have is teh bitterz....it could have been so much worse.
closeted lazy faggot pussy.....but not at risk for bitterness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead
I’d probably be done, before most people even get out of bed?Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
I’m sure there wouldn’t be any bitterness. Most people that get up and after it early, are pretty chill.
I’ve heard don’t ask don’t tell is okQuote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead