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Not looking good
Attachment 247448
The plugs have not been touched since I bought the truck 3 years ago (less than 15k miles driven in that time). The insulator tip and the electrode are missing. There’s no thread to put another plug in. But the top of the piston does not look damaged. Not sure about anything else in there :(.
Likely from a poorly tightened plug....
This is where I stop working on it. Next step is tow to mechanic. Then scope into the engine and hope he sees no damage.
Ford triton?
100-series land cruiser. Uzj
You may be able to get a telescopic magnet in there and wand around to see if there are any chunks....that shit's probably long gone though.
Yea. I think it's gonna be about damage assessment at this point.
Had some early autumn plans of use in the next month, too; hauling trailer loads of gravel and moving around a big splitter between friends and eventually to my place.
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I don't know man, maybe it's fine....those are little pieces, it may have coughed that shit right out of the exhaust valve or crunched it all up into dust....it's not inconceivable. I wouldn't write it off. A compression test ought to give you an idea if your surfaces are gouged or something like that. If I had to bet I would bet you could put another plug in and run it and it would be OK. Then again, maybe you'd be running on 5 cylinders and burning oil. I definitely wouldn't jump ahead to "it's fucked", or pulling the head off it, without trying a magnet and doing a compression test. I think if it were mine and I fished around with a strong magnet and it had good compression I'd put a plug in it and run it. That's just me though....I might even run it with iffy compression, I have a truck running on about 7.5 cylinders, drinking oil and fouling that bad one every 500 miles or so, it's a work truck, it runs.
Thank you!
My next door neighbor is a mechanic with a lot of Toyota experience and said very similar stuff yesterday, and I appreciate seeing it written down (my auditory memory wasn’t too good yesterday). He suggested visual scoping for damage (can’t remember the tool name) followed by compression test (I’ll mention the magnet to my mechanic). That’s what I meant by damage assessment. Realistic best case is rethreading, new plug and coil, check all other plugs and done. Realistic worst case is those little pieces did some substantial damage. Unless it’s crazy expensive, we’ll probably keep the truck, fix the problem (or deal with mild compression problem if it will pass smog) and rethink other upcoming expenses (that’s what credit cards are for, right?!). It should be cheaper than replacing the truck.
My mechanic is good and has a long queue which may change upcoming plans for using the truck.
Incidentally, my neighbor told me that he finds one or two loose spark plugs more often than he likes. His thinking is distracted mechanic getting complacent.
having to smog it sort of complicates things....you're not going to be dragging ass around down one cylinder chugging oil (like my truck) if you have to run it through smog.
anyway, don't lose hope, it may still be ok.
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
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post 786 is right on---Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Not sure I understand. You didn't have to unscrew the plug? where was it, just laying at the top of the hole?
To get shit out of that hole, vacuum it. get a length of tubing that will go right down in there. connect it to a shop vac with some ducttape and get busy. put a new plug down there and reverse thread it then when you know where the start is make it happen. rightytighty
do you know how to tap threads into something like that? how do you know it's stripped?, could it just be dirty as hell baked into it cuz oil has been baking/blowing by for awhile?
Flowing - It occurred to me yesterday that maybe you gotta get some music going in the garage while you reef on that brake line nut. I was mowing the lawn and listening to some Priest. Record time...
Pablo Cruise prolly ain't tough enough to bust that nut.
When I removed the ignition coil, which was really stuck, the plug came out with it. No unscrewing necessary. It looks like the insulator and some of the electrode is gone. The plug, the rubber boot of the coil, and some of the plastic of the outside of the coil look pretty fried. The hole looks clean (no gunk or baked on crap). Visually, cannot see any threads for the plug. Using a long and skinny screwdriver, I can gently run it down the inside of the hole until it enters the head and touches the top of the piston and not feel any threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
I am open to ideas... :)
When I first looked at those parts I thought wow. When you say coil you mean plug wire right? where it slips onto the plug?
OK they make a socket for plugs. it has a rubber thing in it to hold the plug in while you point it down to the hole. Unless yours is super easy to screw it in with yer hands. doubt it. if you can access the hole, a little brush at the threads would help. if not a touch of wd40 on plug threads,then...
get a plug and test for threads. put it in the socket with an extension if need be, then put it down onto the top of the hole. gently...turn socket counter clockwise easy and feel for threads. begin turning socket clockwise and feel for bite. Helps to look at hole first and have your plug going in straight. slight down pressure to let it thread in. likely will get tighter as it bites.
Some resistance is good but if it gets tight real fast then back it out. Its a metal to metal interface so it should go if at all possible.
edit: fixing this will have to improve something.
Whomper -
Borescopes that hook up to your phone are $40 on ZON. You may have to clean things up in there to see the cylinder bore, but shit should be obvious unless everything that broke off is a lot softer than .
If the plug threads are really history from the plug vibrating around in there, threaded bushing may be about the only thing you can do, short of a new head.
Prob have to pull the head to do that right, but what do I know? Is this a V8 J100, or straight 6?
Yunkjards?
^ super solid advice on the bore scope. Go this route, you can rent them, to find out exactly what you’re dealing with.
and ya know, a coupla more pics would be cool. top of plug; into broken end of wire connection; down into plug hole; close up of threads. Any chance it was hanging in by a thread or two?
out of curiosity, how was it running last time ?
Thanks all. It’s a V8 uzj100.
“Boroscope.” That’s the name that I forgot. I may try to borrow one if my mechanic is booked and can’t deal for a while. Neighbor said that the scope could still miss things but should be the next step. If my mechanic is too swamped, I’m going to talk to my neighbor. He has a strong reputation, but he’s only one amongst several at his work, and I’m not sure how it would change our very friendly relationship.
We could clearly see the top of the piston in the hole. That part of the piston showed no scoring or sign of damage.
Neighbor said that rethreading the hole (bigger hole, tap, insert) is often done w/o removing the head using grease to catch debris/shavings.
Junkyard will likely be the method if there’s damage.
Djongo, it seemed pretty clear that threads were gone in the head. I’ve done that trick before getting other things threaded that were a tight tolerance. By “coil,” I mean “ignition coil” or “ignition pack.” https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-p8AA...Ngx/s-l300.jpg
I have no home shop. Garage is storage and driveway is uneven gravel/dirt. I use a friend’s place for the very minor routine maintenance stuff. His place is about 20-30 minute drive. My neighbors garage/shop has his el Camino hot rod that is currently not movable.
Had to look it up after I read 2funky's post.
UZJ= 4.7l V8 32v aluminum heads, so maybe better chance of finding a head than if you had an i6.
I’ll take more Picts tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
When issues arose, the CEL light was coming on and off, and it started to go into “limp” mode right before getting home. It didn’t sound too good. Last time this happened, it had similar symptoms and it was only the ignition coil, which is not an uncommon issue with that motor (or so i have read). It was running well before that, drove from home to donner pass. Issues arrived on the way home.
Good point and agree. Several Toyota’s have that head. Junkyard/pick a part should not be too bad or we need to go that route.Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
Sometimes your friendly neighbor mechanic wishes you would get someone else to do it. He may buy YOU a beer.
Ah so, coil pack...gotcha.
have you even tried screwing a plug in? Much ado about nothing if it bites. I've torqued on some plugs and in my experience it'd be kinda hard to strip a sparky but hey...
That's what I'm thinking. It's pretty unlikely all the threads are completely gone. I could be wrong, but I'd start with trying to replacing a plug before going any further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
Are you sure the threads aren't covered in grease and you just can't see or feel them?
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I can buy a plug in the morning and check. But do i really want to fire it up and drive it around if all the pieces of the spark plug have not been ejected (though that could be unlikely)? Is the point to get the truck to my mechanic w/o a tow? Towing is going to be a pita from a rural one lane ungraded gravel/dirt driveway, and it's probably going to take a chunk of my day.
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Honestly, 95% of loose particles will come out with a vacuuming alone. Shop vac or something with a small 1/4-1/2 inch hose taped into the big hose. Stick it right in the plug hole clean top of cylinder.
My guess is a plug that either backed out to the last thread or so. then electrical zaps started to melt plug head and coil tip. Then fuel combustion maybe clogging threads; solid gunk per KB's thoughts too.
Most of these bigger engines can handle some small shit going through. Motors are generally tougher than you'd think. It's usually the smaller things that tank at their first opportunity. And cost more proportionally...
The point was not to get it to the shop but maybe fix it at home. I bet it works out.
Totally disagree that an aluminum head is hard to strip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
After stripping threads on two cars, I no longer touch a plug unless I have the torque wrench in hand.
If you can get a plug threaded into the head then fire it up and let it run. Honestly, you'll know if you need to take it to a mechanic at that point. It'll run bad if there's something in the head. The small spark plug parts have probably been pushed out of the engine by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
I'd get a vacuum down there like someone else said and then clean the head and see if you can get the plug in. Fire it up and determine if you need to do anything further.
I can't imagine a professional will tell you anything you probably don't know at this point. If you're really worried then put a compression tester on the cylinder and do a test on it.
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Thanks again! I’ll get a plug and try. I have a new ignition coil that can be used. I’ll shop vac it, too, and see if I can rent a boroscope.
Additional Picts
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I don't know, that boroscope rental is a chunk of money, maybe you could offset the cost by performing a self colonoscopy and billing your insurance.
Get a 14mm tap and clean the threads first!!! Use grease on the tap to hold debris. Sticking a plug in those filthy threads may cause more problems
Yeah a little blob of grease on the tip of the tap and a bit in the flutes too and the the shop vac with a small tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2skier112
fwiw, when i pulled out the ignition coil with the spark plug "attached" to the coil, the spark plug fell through the engine bay and landed in the gunky splashpad. when i fished it out from the splashpad, it them fell to the ground. i think that's one reason why it's super gunky looking. are people seeing a lot of gunk in the hole, too? or threads even? Maybe my eyes are going, or not looking close enough.
are you **sure** it didn't lose the electrode and insulator when it was dropped twice?
Because maybe there wasn't anything in your cylinder ever....and all you have to do is just thread a new plug in. How dope would that be?
That would be GREAT! the ECU was throwing a misfire code for that cylinder.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
I have no idea if the missing plug parts ended up in the head. This was the assessment of my neighbor. He knows what he’s doing, but his assessment is solely based on experience. He didn’t know observe any damage except for the apparently missing threads in the head.
I need to talk to a few of the auto shops to see what tools they rent out....
I was too enthralled with Bobbys brake fluid and pry bars to read much of some of the other stuff in here.
Like this spark plug fiasco. Sure sounds like there should be no threads left in that hole, but you're gonna need a plug anyway. See if it threads. I've seen a spark plug left loose - and when it finally ripped out the last bit of threads in the head, the plug broke the ignition coil off its mounting point (bolt and small piece of coil mount still in place) on its way out.
Also, always put a new plug in when replacing a coil. Also not a horrible idea to do all coils (and plugs) at the same time. Igniton system is pretty good place to invest in preventative maintenance. Let a misfire go long enough, and you will destroy the catalytic converter, aka $$$-$$$$ (the ones built into exhaust manifolds tend to be expensive).
So screw a plug in. Please.;) Clean threads as best you can then hook it up, fire it up, listen, then drive...
Do you know how a tap works for cleaning/tapping threads?
It would appear that some new shit has come to light man. The plug likely got worse after 2 drops. Can't say I've ever seen one like that before.
I've turned enough bolts to know when I'm there.:eek:
Flowing, how's yer gig goin?
i've only tapped threads in a ski :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
Working on boats I've found heat to be a good friend in helping loosening anything stuck. A heat gun to warm things up can perform miracles. I use an OA torch a lot, but with all that grease under the truck I wouldn't advise an open flame.
I hang out with a mechanic friend in rusty, rusty, rusty Michigan. I watch him undo rusty stuff a lot. Getting things red hot, hot enough to vigorously expand and contract metals at different rates, is the main thing he does with stuck hardware. It works great.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2skier112
Because I had to go into town to get plugs (and any tools), I stopped by mechanic to get some free advise and give him a heads up about what may be coming in. He advised the same about trying to get a plug to seat, putting other stuff back together, and firing it up.
Interestingly, Toyota’s OEM plug is an iridium plug. My understanding is that these motors will go through ignition coils more quickly than the designed life of the plugs. Since I’m going through this, I’ll be replacing all plugs, but was under the impression that the PM suggested is fairly common.Quote:
Originally Posted by tripice351
Worn spark plugs make the coil work harder to jump the gap. Plugs are cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper