Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Rockshox rant. I'm still dialing in the Stumpy I got last fall and holy shit am I annoyed at dealing with their products.

First one is not RS specific, I'd be equally pissed about Fox products: having a fork with a single positive air chamber is FUCKING IDIOTIC. Tearing into the air spring to adjust progression is such a pain in the ass after 2 seasons doing it with a shock pump, and it's so coarse... I started with no volume spacers, the fork was way too linear, went to 2, couldn't touch the last inch of travel, split the difference with 1, still feels a little too linear, now what? Cut a spacer in half and open the fork for a 3rd time to see how it feels? I hate having to ride something that feels off and not being able to do shit about until I get home and gut my fork. With the Mezzer I'd just throw the shock pump in the pack and would have the thing feeling like a million $$ within 3 laps and 2 minutes of adjustment. Now it's a weekend project. Not to mention the fact that changing the travel means getting another air shaft... The level of general acceptance of what is clearly inferior tech is puzzling to me.

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Man, I had an EXT air fork with the triple air chambers, and you couldn't pay me to run that shit again. So fucking fiddly and time consuming to drop the main chamber's air completely if you wanted to change the ramp chamber pressure. Now they're doing it in an air shock (apparently you need to use a special 500 psi shock pump for it) - NOPE NOPE NOPITY NOPE! I'm sure it helps that I usually just want to run 1 or 0 tokens in every fork, but they don't seem like much of a hassle to me. And I much prefer RS's use of a cassette tool to remove the top of the air side to access the tokens to Fox's need for a shallow, chamfer-less socket that slips and scars the first time you do it.

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Originally Posted by Andeh

Man, I had an EXT air fork with the triple air chambers, and you couldn't pay me to run that shit again. So fucking fiddly and time consuming to drop the main chamber's air completely if you wanted to change the ramp chamber pressure. Now they're doing it in an air shock (apparently you need to use a special 500 psi shock pump for it) - NOPE NOPE NOPITY NOPE! I'm sure it helps that I usually just want to run 1 or 0 tokens in every fork, but they don't seem like much of a hassle to me. And I much prefer RS's use of a cassette tool to remove the top of the air side to access the tokens to Fox's need for a shallow, chamfer-less socket that slips and scars the first time you do it.

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You're telling me deflating the air spring, getting a cassette tool out, unthreading the air cap, screwing a volume spacer on it, rethreading the cap+spacer, torquing it to spec, and re-inflating the air spring is less time consuming and less of a hassle than using one tool (shock pump) to change your 2nd chamber (IRT) pressure?? You don't need to get the main chamber to 0 to adjust the IRT on a Mezzer pro, as long as IRT pressure > main pressure (which is always) the floating piston stays fully extended. Can't understand why it would be any different on the EXT fork, it's the same tech but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, deflating and re-inflating 2 chambers is still less than 10% of the amount of dicking around it takes to add/remove a spacer, and at least you can fine tune things as opposed to making big jumps between settings... Let's say a volume spacer is equivalent to 10 psi in the IRT, what do you do if you need 5 psi? Add HSC? Then your fork feel like shit in small chatter? Yeah, no. If damping has to rescue your air spring because it isn't tunable enough, you fork isn't working all that well.

I change IRT pressure a whole lot depending on what I ride. If I had to remove tokens after a day in the steeps because I'm doing jumps the next, I'd have worn through a couple cassette tools by now. I guess you can be happy with X numbers of spacers in place and the fork working OK for everything, but what if you could be happier with 15 seconds of pumping and the fork working better ALL THE TIME ON EVERYTHING? No brainer in my book.

For the EXT air shock, different issue, need to see how well the dual chamber system works. Much smaller air volumes, much higher pressures, leverage ratios >1, apples and oranges. But if it works at all it will suck a lot less than a token-based system.

Why doesn't RockShox make a 200mm, dual crown Domain like they used to. Entry level Boxxer starts at $1400. A 190mm Domain is $579. There is a hole in the market for a $800 heavy, spring, dual crown, 200mm fork, but I guess it's a very small hole.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

You're telling me deflating the air spring, getting a cassette tool out, unthreading the air cap, screwing a volume spacer on it, rethreading the cap+spacer, torquing it to spec, and re-inflating the air spring is less time consuming and less of a hassle than using one tool (shock pump) to change your 2nd chamber (IRT) pressure?? You don't need to get the main chamber to 0 to adjust the IRT on a Mezzer pro, as long as IRT pressure > main pressure (which is always) the floating piston stays fully extended. Can't understand why it would be any different on the EXT fork, it's the same tech but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, deflating and re-inflating 2 chambers is still less than 10% of the amount of dicking around it takes to add/remove a spacer, and at least you can fine tune things as opposed to making big jumps between settings... Let's say a volume spacer is equivalent to 10 psi in the IRT, what do you do if you need 5 psi? Add HSC? Then your fork feel like shit in small chatter? Yeah, no. If damping has to rescue your air spring because it isn't tunable enough, you fork isn't working all that well.

I change IRT pressure a whole lot depending on what I ride. If I had to remove tokens after a day in the steeps because I'm doing jumps the next, I'd have worn through a couple cassette tools by now. I guess you can be happy with X numbers of spacers in place and the fork working OK for everything, but what if you could be happier with 15 seconds of pumping and the fork working better ALL THE TIME ON EVERYTHING? No brainer in my book.

For the EXT air shock, different issue, need to see how well the dual chamber system works. Much smaller air volumes, much higher pressures, leverage ratios >1, apples and oranges. But if it works at all it will suck a lot less than a token-based system.

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For the Era, if you want to change the ramp chamber (++ / the higher pressure one), you need to deflate the + / primary / lower pressure chamber completely. I spent over a year trying all combinations of low to high + / ++ ratios combined with all ranges of compression damping. Had bushings burnished and stepped down to light compression tune. The thing either blew through most of its travel then hit a wall of progression at about 80%, or had support in the mid but hit the wall of progression at like 65%. The triple air chamber thing just seemed like a colossal pain in the ass that never felt like how a fork should to me. Zero interest from me in trying an Ohlins or Mezzer after my experience with EXT's version. I know some people like it, so not saying it's wrong. But I disagree on the statement that it's less hassle than tokens.

I literally don't touch the volume tokens on any of my conventional forks beyond the first couple rides. I'm right at average weight and not either a pro or complete noob, so low and behold the suggested numbers of tokens (from both RS and Fox) works fine for me. I'm perfectly fine with only using 85% of travel on most trails while only bottoming out once on a particular move on one trail I ride. For both my Zebs, I set the pressure at what the chart said, and it miraculously gave me 20% sag on both. Left 1 token in it for 170mm travel on one of them. The other fork I got used from a guy like 30 lbs heavier than me, I noticed extra progression pretty quickly and checked to find 3 tokens. Took out 2 and it felt great then. Set the rebound 1 click faster than suggested, and only touch compression on a trail by trail basis (and even that I might only add 1-2 clicks of LSC for really steep stuff).

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Originally Posted by Andeh

For the Era, if you want to change the ramp chamber (++ / the higher pressure one), you need to deflate the + / primary / lower pressure chamber completely. I spent over a year trying all combinations of low to high + / ++ ratios combined with all ranges of compression damping. Had bushings burnished and stepped down to light compression tune. The thing either blew through most of its travel then hit a wall of progression at about 80%, or had support in the mid but hit the wall of progression at like 65%. The triple air chamber thing just seemed like a colossal pain in the ass that never felt like how a fork should to me. Zero interest from me in trying an Ohlins or Mezzer after my experience with EXT's version. I know some people like it, so not saying it's wrong. But I disagree on the statement that it's less hassle than tokens.

I literally don't touch the volume tokens on any of my conventional forks beyond the first couple rides. I'm right at average weight and not either a pro or complete noob, so low and behold the suggested numbers of tokens (from both RS and Fox) works fine for me. I'm perfectly fine with only using 85% of travel on most trails while only bottoming out once on a particular move on one trail I ride. For both my Zebs, I set the pressure at what the chart said, and it miraculously gave me 20% sag on both. Left 1 token in it for 170mm travel on one of them. The other fork I got used from a guy like 30 lbs heavier than me, I noticed extra progression pretty quickly and checked to find 3 tokens. Took out 2 and it felt great then. Set the rebound 1 click faster than suggested, and only touch compression on a trail by trail basis (and even that I might only add 1-2 clicks of LSC for really steep stuff).

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Sucks about the EXT, that definitely seems like an overly complicated setup. Combined with the price, I can see why you gave up. I don't know how the Ohlins is built but the Mezzer is nowhere near that much of a shit show.

Re: tokens, I certainly won't be fucking with them once I get to whatever sweet spot I find, mostly because it's too much work. I'm not a tinkerer by nature and if the barrier is high I settle for whatever, I'm sure I'll quickly forget that the fork could perform a tiny bit better if it was properly tunable. Or I'll throw the Pike at an ebiker and install my 3rd Mezzer on the Stumpy so I can shave a solid 2-3 seconds from all the 5 minute DH is like to bomb down

In the end, personal preference and all. I'll keep giggling when I hear people agonizing over the setup of their orange fork which cost 1.5x more than mine, require $500 of add-ons to reach passable adjustability, and look like it was installed backwards. Yes, the arch looks better when it's behind the stanchions :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Velomayniac

Why doesn't RockShox make a 200mm, dual crown Domain like they used to. Entry level Boxxer starts at $1400. A 190mm Domain is $579. There is a hole in the market for a $800 heavy, spring, dual crown, 200mm fork, but I guess it's a very small hole.

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Marzocchi has a dual crown for around $1k. It's a dumbed down fox 40.

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Originally Posted by Andeh

For the Era, if you want to change the ramp chamber (++ / the higher pressure one), you need to deflate the + / primary / lower pressure chamber completely. I spent over a year trying all combinations of low to high + / ++ ratios combined with all ranges of compression damping. Had bushings burnished and stepped down to light compression tune. The thing either blew through most of its travel then hit a wall of progression at about 80%, or had support in the mid but hit the wall of progression at like 65%. The triple air chamber thing just seemed like a colossal pain in the ass that never felt like how a fork should to me. Zero interest from me in trying an Ohlins or Mezzer after my experience with EXT's version. I know some people like it, so not saying it's wrong. But I disagree on the statement that it's less hassle than tokens.

I literally don't touch the volume tokens on any of my conventional forks beyond the first couple rides. I'm right at average weight and not either a pro or complete noob, so low and behold the suggested numbers of tokens (from both RS and Fox) works fine for me. I'm perfectly fine with only using 85% of travel on most trails while only bottoming out once on a particular move on one trail I ride. For both my Zebs, I set the pressure at what the chart said, and it miraculously gave me 20% sag on both. Left 1 token in it for 170mm travel on one of them. The other fork I got used from a guy like 30 lbs heavier than me, I noticed extra progression pretty quickly and checked to find 3 tokens. Took out 2 and it felt great then. Set the rebound 1 click faster than suggested, and only touch compression on a trail by trail basis (and even that I might only add 1-2 clicks of LSC for really steep stuff).

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Couple things here.
First, as Boissal said, there's no reason to have to deflate the main (+) chamber to adjust the ++ chamber, as long as the ++ stays above the +.
It made no sense to me so I downloaded the EXT user guide and there is nothing to indicate the need to do so. You only have to deflate the + if you bring the ++ down below the + pressure.
Second, if you never touch your tokens, why would you have to adjust your ++?
You have the ability to fine tune but you don't have to.

Before my Mezzer, I didn't mess much with tokens because of the PITA of doing so.
Literally 2 minutes with a shock pump? I'll micro-tune to my heart's desire.

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Originally Posted by Roxtar

Couple things here.
First, as Boissal said, there's no reason to have to deflate the main (+) chamber to adjust the ++ chamber, as long as the ++ stays above the +.
It made no sense to me so I downloaded the EXT user guide and there is nothing to indicate the need to do so. You only have to deflate the + if you bring the ++ down below the + pressure.
Second, if you never touch your tokens, why would you have to adjust your ++?
You have the ability to fine tune but you don't have to.

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Looks like the manual's been updated, but when the fork was released EXT was adamant that you needed to empty the + to adjust the ++ because they said latent pressure in the + would affect the ++. I kept adjusting it because like I said, there was a massive wall of progression at around 60-80%. I've read speculation that their damper uses very progressive compression tuning, which might have been part of the issue, but I have a hard time believing that damping alone was responsible for having to use pressures corresponding to a rider 20 lbs less than me. Anyways, that overpriced fork is done and gone. My point is just that in my experience, the triple chamber system caused me way more of a headache than volume tokens ever have.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Marzocchi has a dual crown for around $1k. It's a dumbed down fox 40.

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I have been looking at the 58, but it’s out of stock everywhere I’ve seen. Seems like a lot of Marzocchi stuff is out of stock

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Originally Posted by Velomayniac

I have been looking at the 58, but it’s out of stock everywhere I’ve seen. Seems like a lot of Marzocchi stuff is out of stock

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I think marzocchi is mostly oem these days. Your best bet is probably to find a lightly used take off.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

I think marzocchi is mostly oem these days. Your best bet is probably to find a lightly used take off.

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That would make sense. I’ve been wondering why so little stock.

Thankfully I’m not in a rush, I don’t actually need my own big rig for this upcoming park season.

This is also not the time of year for dh bike/component deals, however I bet this fall will be a bloodbath

This thread always makes my eyes cross trying to read it, and makes me feel better about the fiddly details of my ski kit….


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Originally Posted by bamboocoreONLY

As a manager of a LBS, I hate these kinds of stories. I just don't get why it's so hard to give customers a positive attitude about allowing them the freedom to make their own decisions for parts, etc. Sure they didn't buy your part in-store and it's kind of a bummer, but if you're cool about it and stay friendly they'll be back for something else, especially if it leads to a part replacement on something more urgent.

No wonder so many people are weary of bike shops, since most act like car dealerships.

Also, $50 for a dropper install is absolute madness (I really hope you didn't pay that much), even the droppers where the cable is cut under the post itself with tiny little hard-to-get-to crimps only takes maybe 20 minutes.

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$50 labor to install a dropper is fair, IMO. Not cheap by any means, but within the realm of what id expect. I wont complain about that.


Its the lack of customer-sense that bothers me. If i roll in with nice clothes, a super nice bike with high end spec and ask for a dropper, then fine, go ahead and upsell me. But when i roll in mildly unkempt with a thrashed bike on its last legs setup for a toddler (utilizing duct tape mind you) to ride on it with me, im probably not the customer to upsell.

As an update my 20month old is now begging to "ride bike, OK" as soon as i get home from work, whispering "so fasssst" on faster sections and says "baaaap" through berms and sweeping turns. Cute AF.

Ok, so a few months ago, I bought a round trip ticket, Jackson to Lima in November, to go ride 5 or six days of Gnar above 10k. Ticket was about $700.
great!
I want to shorten my time in Peru, and visit my cousin in San José, Costa Rica on the way home, and then fly from there back to JH.
Cheapest price on American, almost $10,000 (before even changing the Lima/JAC leg)
WITAF?

I'm sure this is a frequent rant in this thread....but bar mount standards drive me crazy. I just swapped out my M9020 brakes for M8120 and realized my wolftooth dropper lever no longer works. So I have to buy a tiny adapter for $25 and wait for it to ship since it isn't in stock locally.

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Originally Posted by Dshack89

I'm sure this is a frequent rant in this thread....but bar mount standards drive me crazy. I just swapped out my M9020 brakes for M8120 and realized my wolftooth dropper lever no longer works. So I have to buy a tiny adapter for $25 and wait for it to ship since it isn't in stock locally.

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That's a shimano problem. They've gone through 4(?) bar mount standards in the last decade. Current sram stuff is still compatible with bar mounts from the mid 00's.

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Originally Posted by Dshack89

I'm sure this is a frequent rant in this thread....but bar mount standards drive me crazy. I just swapped out my M9020 brakes for M8120 and realized my wolftooth dropper lever no longer works. So I have to buy a tiny adapter for $25 and wait for it to ship since it isn't in stock locally.

Sent from my SM-S908U using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by toast2266

That's a shimano problem. They've gone through 4(?) bar mount standards in the last decade. Current sram stuff is still compatible with bar mounts from the mid 00's.

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Related RANT----- It's your fault for trying to integrate... just clamp the shit to the bar. It always works no matter what your stupid brake is. If you don't agree, then enjoy headset cable routing mother fuckers!!!

yes... I utilize matchmaker... but always have bar clamps incase.

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Originally Posted by Eluder

Related RANT----- It's your fault for trying to integrate... just clamp the shit to the bar. It always works no matter what your stupid brake is. If you don't agree, then enjoy headset cable routing mother fuckers!!!

yes... I utilize matchmaker... but always have bar clamps incase.

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That's what I ended up settling on. Fought the Shimano standards for a while and gave up, too many annoying adapters, especially now that I'm running Hayes brakes with WolfTooth dropper and a Shimao shifter. Everything is clamped, it actually gives me a tad more adjustability in terms of angle and position. The clamp-style stuff is usually more often in stock than the ISPEC stuff.
I also feel like clamping controls reduces the risk of something exploding when the bike takes a tumble, everything can rotate on the bar independently. Probably not a real thing but, placebo effect...

The stupid Matchmaker shit (for both big brands) is exactly that, shit. Sure, it keeps your handlebar subjectively “cleaner”. But it also limits the adjustability of everything… specifically not allowing you to keep your brake levers a little loose without also keeping your dropper/shifter lever loose as well. And there are way too many brands and options to choose from, too. Just give everything its own clamp for Christ sakes.

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Originally Posted by smmokan

The stupid Matchmaker shit (for both big brands) is exactly that, shit. Sure, it keeps your handlebar subjectively “cleaner”. But it also limits the adjustability of everything… specifically not allowing you to keep your brake levers a little loose without also keeping your dropper/shifter lever loose as well. And there are way too many brands and options to choose from, too. Just give everything its own clamp for Christ sakes.

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I like the matchmakers. They put everything where I want them to be, and oneup droppers play nicely with them (and all my bikes have oneups, since every bike brand ships their bikes with droppers that are too short. But that's a separate rant).

I'm ok-ish with separate clamps for everything, but there's a 40% chance that I can't get something into the exact right position because there's some other clamp in the way. Or some dumb company only offers their stand alone clamp in a style that can't be installed without removing the grip, so I have to take everything off the bar to get it to the inside of the brake lever, and that's just annoying.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Or some dumb company only offers their stand alone clamp in a style that can't be installed without removing the grip, so I have to take everything off the bar to get it to the inside of the brake lever, and that's just annoying.

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Now that is a worthy gripe! I run slip-on grips cause I haven't found thin lock-ons I like and I destroy several pairs per season, but having to remove a slip-on grip to change a shifter is unacceptably shitty!
I destroyed a derailleur last week, had to replace it along with the cable and figured I'd update the SLX shifter to XT since I was already ass deep in drivetrain maintenance. Almost gave up after realizing the clamp on the shifter doesn't pop open the way the brake clamps do. Fortunately I was able to swap the body of the shifter only while the clamp stayed on the bar.

Kid bike upgrade fail. Bought nice lightweight 26” Crest wheels for my 60lb 10y/o, went out of my way and paid too much for XC tire. Install it all while she’s in school, including shimming brake rotor et. One lap around our driveway she has major toe overlap… eff

Apparently 24x2.6 is actually quite a bit smaller than a 26x2.2.


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My uptight bike park rules:
1. Don’t bring your dog off leash.
2. Don’t leave your toddler unattended with their strider while you do laps.

Neither knows how to look out and people like me aren’t thinking about something so short you can’t see it or them behind the next feature.
Maybe this is an Utah thing, but this keeps repeating. I love my dog more than my kids some days. She is my right arm. But I know what isn’t a good outing for her.

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Originally Posted by VTskibum

Kid bike upgrade fail. Bought nice lightweight 26” Crest wheels for my 60lb 10y/o, went out of my way and paid too much for XC tire. Install it all while she’s in school, including shimming brake rotor et. One lap around our driveway she has major toe overlap… eff

Apparently 24x2.6 is actually quite a bit smaller than a 26x2.2.

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According to BikeCalc its almost 100mm or almost 4"
24x2.6 = 2007.73mm
26x2.2= 2107.25mm

Having very mixed feelings about my Status 160. The twitchiness mid air while jumping ruins my confidence in jumping, and I feel like I’m going to eat it hard almost every jump. Can’t have that. Messed around with different set ups, stuff changes, but not that mid air feeling.

I put it up for sale, I want something a bit beefier