If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by Summit

Most cops have rifles in their patrol cars and wear body armor every single shift all shift long, this has been the trend since the mid 1990s. This perp had only soft armor (stops some pistol rounds maybe) only covering some of his torso.

After Columbine, OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO, where the cops waited around forever while the killers killed, the modus operandi for police active shooter response switched to: ATTACK FULL BREACH IMMEDIATELY by as few as two initial responding officers.

Having 3 cops flee, then a whole department twiddling their thumbs for 40 minutes is a fucking embarrassment for law enforcement. That the perp had to be taken down by a CBP tactical team that just happened to be nearby and just happened to be listening to the radio (and then couldn't breach a simple door) is a fucking embarrassment for law enforcement.

NOBODY gives two fucks about officer safety in these situations except for fucking cowards.

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Not the school resource officers in this case, or the off duty cop last week whose bullets bounced off the body armor of the lunatic.

When the cops are out gunned we have a problem.


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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

JFC, someone needs to explain to you the limits of anecdotal evidence. Fuck's sake, you should be embarassed. How is what you posted in any way meaningful? Literally smh.

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A person was shot for no reason on the subway last week. You said NYC was the example to look at.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

You know, stuff like that that may lead to deeper conversations that seem to be more effective "than this guy owns guns, he's a hypocrite". But Mazderati just seems to troll me on other topics too. This one got me a little riled as these shootings are such a tragedy and they don't need to happen. There are steps our society could work to that would help. I don't think an all out firearm ban is the answer as it will be tangled in courts forever but some more sensible things might be accomplished and those start with guns owners and non-owners talking. There's always going to be the fringe that won't participate but I'm a low hanging fruit gun guy that is excited to have the chat. Why be a dick about it?

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You keep trying to reframe the situation. It's not about your current hoard. It's not about a ban. It's about you and others like you actively supporting the gun lobby by buying new shit. And then you're like 'but I write letters so I'm doing my part.' Your money moves the needle way more than your letters.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

eventually banning semiautomatics and automatics seems like a reasonable common ground for most Americans. It's awfully easy to feel like common sense is diluted by the assholes and stupid.

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Automatics were banned in 1986.

I would try and familiarize yourself with whats legal and illegal to own already.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...plan-rcna30568

Uvalde had hardened the schools following a 2018 shooting, it didn't help.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

A person was shot for no reason on the subway last week. You said NYC was the example to look at.

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you're back again with that shit?

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...plan-rcna30568

Uvalde had hardened the schools following a 2018 shooting, it didn't help.



you're back again with that shit?

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Was locking the doors included in "hardening" the schools?

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Automatics were banned in 1986.

I would try and familiarize yourself with whats legal and illegal to own already.

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Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Automatics were banned in 1986.

I would try and familiarize yourself with whats legal and illegal to own already.

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Congress enacted The Firearm Owners’ Protection Act of 1986—banning the possession and transfer of new machine guns. However, this law exempts machine guns manufactured prior to May 19, 1986, as well as machine guns possessed by or manufactured for governmental entities.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Not the school resource officers in this case, or the off duty cop last week whose bullets bounced off the body armor of the lunatic.

When the cops are out gunned we have a problem.

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Turns out the cops didn't follow him in. The started tasing parents trying to enter.

https://youtu.be/dyXtymq-A6w

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

https://giffords.org/

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This PAC has a high rating on Charity Navigator to anyone interested.

I predict we'll see a movement amongst the gravy seals for them to voluntarily "protect" schools any minute now. Probably a good thing the school year is wrapping up in many places.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

No, we could do everything we need to do that every other country has done. Just saying it can't be done is meaningless. We're not as insensible a country as the radical right/gun lobby would have you believe. Get rid of the guns and the problem goes away. It's literally as simple as that. Maybe we would never reach NZ levels of gun safety, but we could get to Canada levels. Certainly.

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Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

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Im well aware of what it takes to own a Pre-86 machine gun. They cost upwards of 30k-150k. I don't think transferable machine guns are an issue.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

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And how often outside of Michael Mann movies are those autos actually used to commit a crime? I don't "get" the gun enthusiasts, but the school shooters are angsty teenagers that were able to buy semi-autos super easy. I think making those as hard to get as autos would be a great step.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Imagine the whole country under NYC gun laws--virtually no one aside from law enforcement allowed to carry, no sales, nothing else.

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NYC has a lower murder rate than a lot of big cities, but is still 2x the city I live in (Missoula) despite having a much lower gun ownership rate than we do. I know a lot of domestic violence victims that would not be willing to give up their handguns under almost any circumstances.

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Originally Posted by The AD

I predict we'll see a movement amongst the gravy seals for them to voluntarily "protect" schools any minute now. Probably a good thing the school year is wrapping up in many places.

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Plenty of work for them at churches, concerts, and nightclubs.

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Originally Posted by Summit

What on earth are you talking about?

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There’s a social contract, we don’t kill each other and we should all care about each other’s well being. After decades of inaction in gun control, mental health, climate change, wealth inequity, division and the last three years of hate in regards to elections and measures to combat the spread of covid it seems the social contract is null and void. No one cares about anyone else anymore and it seems it’s every man or woman for themselves. I’m no longer hopeful that anything will be done to prevent the further decline of our once great country and the rest of the world for that matter.

This latest tragedy is just another symptom of an irreversible decline from what were once universally understood social norms. It’s really disgusting.


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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Plenty of work for them at churches, concerts, and nightclubs.

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This is the kind of opportunity they've been masturbating about for years.

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Originally Posted by RoooR

And how often outside of Michael Mann movies are those autos actually used to commit a crime? I don't "get" the gun enthusiasts, but the school shooters are angsty teenagers that were able to buy semi-autos super easy. I think making those as hard to get as autos would be a great step.

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They aren't. Pre-86 machine guns are investments now. No one is buying a 50k select fire M16 and using it for a mass shooting.

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Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

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How about get rid of the ability for any Tom, Dick or Harry to carry a "Assault" rifle willy nilly. Like require a registration to own and use in the public square. Like a car. I can own it and use it at a track but need to register and show some competence on public roads.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Manufacture of automatics was banned. Still perfectly legal to own a pre-'86 auto. But don't let me get in the way of you being a smug twat.

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And bump stocks were legal until 2019 when they were banned by **checks notes** the Trump admin. Funny how that ban barely caused a stir among the 2A crowd.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

And bump stocks were legal until 2019 when they were banned by **checks notes** the Trump admin. Funny how that ban barely caused a stir among the 2A crowd.

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Binary trigger is more useful than bump stock for rapid controlled fire. And even then, it's not full auto.

Because so many school shooters are either in school or just out of school themselves it seems like lockdown drills, locking doors, or hardening entrances essentially becomes ‘taking off your shoes in airport security.’ An 18 year old shooter had lockdown drills growing up. They've been through school drills as kids. They know the entry procedures, the weak spots and the hiding places.

If anything security procedures and drills are giving some of them ideas, something to fantasize about.

In this the most recent shooting where the shooter reportedly 'barricaded' himself inside a classroom the so called barricade was quite possibly a heavy steel door with a lock on the inside specifically designed to keep an active shooter out. As a result it took longer to breach the classroom because authorities couldn't kick the door in and instead had to locate a key.

Probably score some free guns in the cars in the parking lots during tRumps NRA convention appearance: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/...tail=emaildkre

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Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

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Guns are lot harder to illicitly manufacture and smuggle than drugs. But, I am generally inclined to agree that it's not a realistic solution.

It would be nice if we could apply the same "Responsible law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of a miniscule minority of stupid and/or crazy people" gun logic to drugs, though. At least that would be intellectually consistent.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Im well aware of what it takes to own a Pre-86 machine gun. They cost upwards of 30k-150k. I don't think transferable machine guns are an issue.

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Do you ride a unicycle much?
Because your backpedaling without owning your fail is awesome.

You must be in sales.

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Originally Posted by RoooR

And how often outside of Michael Mann movies are those autos actually used to commit a crime? I don't "get" the gun enthusiasts, but the school shooters are angsty teenagers that were able to buy semi-autos super easy. I think making those as hard to get as autos would be a great step.

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Fully agreed. I'm not overly concerned with additional restrictions on autos; I was just responding to B.S. who was implying that autos are already banned. If semi-autos had the same restrictions as full autos, we'd be in better shape.

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Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

Turns out the cops didn't follow him in. The started tasing parents trying to enter.

https://youtu.be/dyXtymq-A6w

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That is a terrible look for the police.

So is the fact that a bunch of overweight officers in body armor with AR-15s standing around threatening the parents with tazers instead of what they should be doing: breaching the school, neutralizing the shooter to stop the slaughter, and getting medical care to the dying children.

Untrained unarmed parents willing to go up against a gunman while trained, armed, and armored cops, charged with defending the public, stop the parents instead of the gunman!

Fucking cowards!!!

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Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

Turns out the cops didn't follow him in. The started tasing parents trying to enter.

https://youtu.be/dyXtymq-A6w

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What in the actual fuck is this?!?!?!

Easy! Easy! Folks! Easy, take it easy, he’ll run out of ammo or get bored with the killing of people pretty soon. Just let it run it’s course. Don’t pay attention to him while he’s throwing a tantrum, that’s what he wants.


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Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater

Like we got rid drugs in the 80s and 90s?

This is not a realistic solution. Not even close.

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Maybe we try to do what Australia did in response to mass shootings: https://fortune.com/2018/02/20/austr...ntrol-success/

Why is it possible for other countries to fix their gun violence issues, mostly, but we act like it's impossible in the US? That's not necessarily for you specifically...but just a question to the TGR masses.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

Maybe we try to do what Australia did in response to mass shootings: https://fortune.com/2018/02/20/austr...ntrol-success/

Why is it possible for other countries to fix their gun violence issues, mostly, but we act like it's impossible in the US? That's not necessarily for you specifically...but just a question to the TGR masses.

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Because FREEDOM!!!!!!


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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Was locking the doors included in "hardening" the schools?

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Can locked doors be unlocked? Maybe chain ‘em shut.

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Originally Posted by dunfree

Can locked doors be unlocked? Maybe chain ‘em shut.

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It is not like the crazed gunman was going to pick the locks.

You have gone from shrill to obtuse, and not just in this thread. It has be especially bad lately. You are not quite to leroy levels but you are trying very very hard. It is sad, because unlike SJG, you are not mentally handicapped.

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Originally Posted by Summit

You have gone from shrill to obtuse.

It is not like the crazed gunman was going to pick the locks.

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Couldn't she just shoot them off?

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Because so many school shooters are either in school or just out of school themselves it seems like lockdown drills, locking doors, or hardening entrances essentially becomes ‘taking off your shoes in airport security.’ An 18 year old shooter had lockdown drills growing up. They've been through school drills as kids. They know the entry procedures, the weak spots and the hiding places.

If anything security procedures and drills are giving some of them ideas, something to fantasize about.

In this the most recent shooting where the shooter reportedly 'barricaded' himself inside a classroom the so called barricade was quite possibly a heavy steel door with a lock on the inside specifically designed to keep an active shooter out. As a result it took longer to breach the classroom because authorities couldn't kick the door in and instead had to locate a key.

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This is a really good point.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Couldn't she just shoot them off?

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She? I'm pretty sure that was a 4chan hoax.

Shooting locks doesn't work like in the movies.

CBP's tactical team couldn't breach the classroom door and they have special shotgun breaching rounds and battering rams that they apparently left behind.

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Originally Posted by Summit

She? I'm pretty sure that was a 4chan hoax.

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Have you had your sense of humor surgically removed?

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

The sheriffs departments are the ones who sued to have the unenforceable mag ban overturned in Co. They failed, now you've got this weird ass situation where stores openly sell technically illegal mags and everyone looks the other way because they never wanted to enforce it in the first place and it was just soem sort of experiment by the national Dem party.

Should have just kept them legal the current situation is not an improvement.

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that is the craziest rationalization I have read yet

fucktards won't enforce the law - so bad law

no it's bad fucktards

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Originally Posted by Summit

She? I'm pretty sure that was a 4chan hoax.

Shooting locks doesn't work like in the movies.

CBP's tactical team couldn't breach the classroom door and they have special breaching rounds and battering rams.

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Your sarcasm meter is still dysfunctional.

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Originally Posted by Summit

She? I'm pretty sure that was a 4chan hoax.

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We know it was a hoax because women don't do this kind of thing.

For someone who doesn't absorb any news because it's too mentally difficult for him to do so...Leroy sure has a lot of opinions and alleged stats that he throws around to make his arguments.