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Wow. That’s cool. What’s the company?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo
Air ambulance insurance is cheap. People need to think more about buying that stuff when they go over seas, and especially to the third world.
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I heard some twit complaining how the US Ambassador should be visiting them all.
But, but, we’re Americans Damn it!
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i have www.internationalsos.com through my work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Japanese infectious disease expert commenting on Princess Diamond. Basically they have no infection control, that's why cases rise every day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtHYZkLuKcI
The one time I used my travel insurance it covered about 2K worth of unused Hobbs time on an AK heli trip. I'm surprised I could get away with that one but apparently it happens all the time. It's in the heli company's info packet.
I heard Trump was sending Marie Yovanovich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Not to put too fine a point on it, the use of exotic animals for delicacies and for traditional Chinese medicine appears to be the root cause of novel coronaviruses like SARS and SARS-CoV-2. Unless China and the rest of Southeast Asia permanently bans the practice these periodic outbreaks will just keep happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
That and the appalling lack of personal hygiene, plus the number of people living and working in close vicinity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
Wait I thought it was bats. No, snakes.
There are certain animals that are more prone to being reservoirs or intermediary for higher threat zooninosis.
Someone probably cut their hand around 100 years ago butchering a chimp for food and that was the genisis of HIV jumping to humans.
Pigs and fowl for influenza... Including probably some pig in a Kansas farming community in 1918 being the source of the 1919 H1N1 paninfluenza.
Birds in Asia for various 20th century paninfluenzas.
Bats, or monkeys exposed to bats, in Africa causing repeated Ebola outbreaks.
Camels and MERS.
Something exposed to Bat's then to humans for SARS and COVID.
History is replete: Anthrax in sheep and cattle, TB in milk cows, plague in rodents vectored by fleas.
so you're saying it's like DSM and annoying threads?
...but without egg roll and extra duck sauce.
... and no fuckin
If that shit gets to N Korea........ewe lordy
Only applies to dirty Chinese animals, I can keep eating American squirrel right? It's in my Mom's Joy of CookingQuote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-...1878-95428350/
you realize a squirrel is just a rat with a good publicist ?
Speaking of publicists, here's the CDC on "Mexican" Swine FluQuote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm
First detected in Americans, suspected origin in pigs.
Perhaps our two brothers in Abraham (Muslims and Jews) are right about unclean animals. Unless United States and the rest of North America permanently bans the practice these periodic outbreaks will just keep happening.
Tree rats is what we call them but in a crock pot with carrots, onions and taters...
Thought occurs. Is the current H1N1 the same as swine flu H1N1?
As much as china makes a great punching bag, they did extinguish SARS, the last disease that originated there. The US did not do the same for H1N1. I'm hoping China, as well as the other affected countries, succeeds against Covid-19.
To date, we should be doing more to identify cases and get them to quarantine and treatment. It's a crime to let the Westerdam be banned from multiple ports, and end at Cambodia, a country least able to manage this disease. It's a crime to bar entry to Americans leaving the Diamond Princess. We need to be seeing that all possible cases, anywhere in anyone, are being found and treated. Supplies, medical staff, and leadership should be freely dispatched anywhere needed.
The current world approach is dragon-dancing on that loaded avalanche slope, throwing our Chinese New Year firecrackers. Tempting fate
Hell ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
literally quoted from your link:Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
"
But further study has shown that the 2009 H1N1 is very different from what normally circulates in North American pigs. It has two genes from flu viruses that normally circulate in pigs in Europe and Asia and bird (avian) genes and human genes. "
not sure what youre getting at, just wanted to point it out
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
Squirrel, sure why not? Pangolins on the other hand are critically endangered, on the verge of extinction in Africa, and are protected by an international ban on their trade. That doesn't stop them from being trafficked in China, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
The Chinese government even turns a blind eye to the illegal exotic animal trade because traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) helps reinforce a nationalist identity as well as being a cultural export. There are hundreds of sites and Asian news stories along with thousands of social media posts unironically touting TCM as a treatment for COVID-19. It's mostly nonsense.
Yeah, China managed to stop SARS and what they're doing now is even more impressive but that was more than a decade ago when China was poorer and less connected. Now, increasingly, even compared with a couple of weeks ago, it looks like SARS-CoV-2 will continue to spread internationally.
Bags of Pangolin scales intercepted in Hong Kong last February.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020...y=90&auto=webp
lotta dead pangolins there
So they eat that shit to make their dicks hard? Is the little blue pill not enough?
Mmm, pangolin flakes in a bowl of bat milk
Similar... flu is a mutatorQuote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
The H1N1 antigen in this year's flu vax match the circulating A/Brisbane/02/2018 (H1N1)pdm09–like virus.
China did not extinguish SARS. SARS cases were found in 30 countries, with the US having the most cases outside of east and southeast Asia, so the virus was contained by the actions taken in all these countries. However, no one seems to know what happened to the virus--why it caused a number of deaths and then disappeared. Other viruses, notably smallpox, have disappeared or been eradicated--but small pox has no known animal reservoir and has an effective vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
The H1N1 is a strain of influenza A that is always present in the human population with genetic variants appearing from time to time, so this year's H1N1 is not the same as the swine flu (they're blaming this year's on Brisbane). Flu of course occurs all over the world, not just in the US, and has not been eradicated because a) there is no universally effective vaccine, b) lots of people don't get vaccinated, c) it is constantly mutating so vaccination or illness in prior years is not protective, and d) there are animal reservoirs from which new strains can arise. It is actually rare for any infectious disease to disappear or be eradicated.
One can argue about how aggressively to fight COVID 19--how many resources, including protective gear to provide (factories cannot simply multiply their output by orders of magnitude, and devoting large amounts of protective gear for COVID 19 means less is available for health care personnel treating other disease--if your surgical team is not wearing masks during your appendectomy you'll know why), how many personnel to divert from other infectious diseases, how much to restrict the civil liberties of victims and particularly of disease free contacts. Keep in mind that we don't quarantine influenza victims and their contacts, and that disease has killed a lot more people this year than COVID 19.
You say more should be done to quarantine cases, and then you say it's a crime to bar entry to Americans leaving the Diamond Princess. Which is it?
What won't help is a bunch of people running around shouting "Do something, anything!!"
I trust the CDC. They're not omniscient but they're the best in the world, as the rest of the world freely admits.
Looks like that trust is not shared by the State Dept:Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Coronavirus-infected Americans flown home against CDC’s advice
I duno but if youQuote:
Originally Posted by Timberridge
see alice
tell her I'm ready to go eh
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "clean" animal, even if we start eating ourselves (see Kuru).Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
CDC or State, who to believe? That's a tough one. Better think on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by powpig
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2...-pandemic.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by old goat
2019's H1N1 was the same as 2009, according to this. I've read 2020's is a variant of 2019's, so it's the same. (barring semantic arguments about seasonal variation)
I am arguing more aggressively. If we can spin up an automotive line in a few months in our most highly regulated state (Tesla, Fremont, CA), we can spin up some PPE protective gear lines faster. There may be sufficient inventory we can simply send what we've already got. So far, there's only 10's of thousands of patients. As supplies run low, make more.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Flu has infects a billion people to get its body count
Covid-19 has infected 10's of thousands and killed 2000 already. Most of the cases aren't resolved as yet, so it's more deadly than it looks. It's a much more deadly infection than regular flu.
Both. Charter a jet. Bring 'em here. Quarantine and treat. Don't have them running loose spreading it. There's 50 Americans. There's already a few dozen Covid cases here, and a few hundred quarantined. If we took the other passenger, it's a couple thousand or so. Call it a military training exercise for bioterror if we must, just get people treated.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I trust them too. They need a kick in the pants.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I was getting at novel diseases are not limited to Chinese taste for animals that happen to differ from anyone else's taste in animals. Novel diseases are going to happen. There may be someone to blame for each. This time it's China's turn for blame. All of us need to limit spread or have the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Zander
I was also getting at the having a good publicist idea. Your closer reading suggests the H1N1 flu originally blamed on Mexico, discovered in the US, actually has origins elsewhere. But that's still on point. It isn't the "Mexican Swine Flu" as originally advertised.
"The virus has killed more than 2,000 people — most of them in China's Hubei province, the center of the outbreak. Globally, nearly 17,000 people had recovered from the illness as of Thursday afternoon ET."
19,000 cases resolved. 2000 of those in death. Deserves attention.
What will help is "doing something" for the bunch of people running around who are infected, or possibly infected. Leaving them loose in Japan (or Cambodia or wherever) helps no one*.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
* Does help enviro-whackos. What could be better for the planet than losing a bunch of people?
Fucking State Dept: "What does the CDC know about disease control and prevention? Let's put the infected people on the same plane as the uninfected people!
Culling the elderly doesn't do much for population control.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
As far as the H1N1 being just a variant--it's not semantics. H1N1 has been around for a very long time, the 2009 pandemic was caused by a variant--that's hardly semantics. The variation from year to year is what makes developing effective vaccines so difficult. In any case you missed my point--the failure to eradicate H1N1 is not a US failure. The virus was and is a worldwide problem. and viruses are almost never eradicated. What happened with SARS was a rare exception (unless it pops up again).Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
As far as masks go--companies are gearing up https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/b...sultPosition=2 but in order to make masks you need machines. Those take time to make. And once the epidemic is over what happens to those machines and the companies' investment in them.
Another article about masks and why an American manufacturer is reluctant to ramp up production--SARS nearly put him out of business, because after the epidemic was over hospitals etc were left sitting on huge mask inventories and stopped ordering more. https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...manufacturing/
It may be justified in the future to put a moon shot effort into making protective gear but it does not seem justified yet. It is not even clear how effective protective gear is, given the number of health care workers who have been infected. Only time will tell if we are too slow in reacting or if we are overreacting.
It is irrelevant how many cases of flu it takes to kill x number of people. What is relevant is how many people die. My point is that at this point the response to COVID 19 is disproportionate to its health impact thus far.
The world's health authorities are trying to figure out what will work and how aggressive in quarantining people it needs to be. Every new virus poses a different challenge, what worked in the past might not work this time or might be overkill. For the most part health authorities are being very aggressive--what happened in Cambodia and with the infected Americans being put on a plan with uninfected people were decisions made by politicians, not health authorities. The biggest obstacles to control will be the actions of politicians around the world and more importantly, the actions of individuals, many of whom will not be compliant with the recommendations of health authorities.
What eventually happens with this virus will depend mostly likely on it's biological characteristics. No one has figured out a way to prevent diseases, invasive species of plants and animals, or people from spreading around the world if they chooses to do so. If this virus doesn't do a SARS and disappear on its own, the best hope will be a vaccine. Read about the polio epidemics of the first half of the 20th century--the fear, the changes in behavior as people stayed home during the summer, and the success of vaccination. COVID 19 could turn out to be like polio, not SARS.
The tone of panic in your post is alarming, because it is representative of how a lot of people feel or will feel, and because it makes taking rational, effective actions much much harder.
That's some interesting logic there.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
How so? Taking current deaths and dividing by current cases is a clear source of underestimate. People who are diagnosed may yet die, increasing the numerator. The denominator does not change. End result is correcting this error shows it's more deadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
There is also some error in the other direction - people infected who are not detected, e.g. some don't get sick enough. Almost all the current cases are traceable to China. The traceability suggests few are undetected. (Could also be a variant of Bacon's Law and the connections are social rather than viral transmission)
WHO's number of 2% deadly seems plenty bad. 15% for the 80+ crowd. Haven't seen numbers for how bad it is for the recovered, there are reports of lung damage.