Attachment 330349
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I'm declaring ciabatta mastered.
Watch - my next batch will turn out complete shite. :D
I don't make sourdough. However I am tempted to try. I want some sourdough naan.
I think you are just getting high and posting the same picture every other day. That sounds fun, but it's not baking.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
[emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mike
loaf attempt #4. i finally got an ear!! well, almost an ear. it's close.
Attachment 330712
I find them better with 100% discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Just add 1 egg per cup starter, 2 tbsp lemon juice, a heaping tbsp of brown sugar, a 1/2 teaspoon baking powder/soda (both works but powder gives a longer slower rise) and milk to the right consistency. Serve with a dab of butter, real maple syrup and some whipped cream.
MMMMMMM good.
Thanks! Will give it a try.
The lemon juice sounds a bit odd, I usually have lime juice on hand mostly.
Can I substitute that one or does it make/break the recipe?
So this reciple makes fantastic French toast... and it's dead easy to bake: https://heartscontentfarmhouse.com/s...n-swirl-bread/
With a little practice, my bread art is starting to improve.
Also, I tried making a high hydration loaf following a recipe in Tartine 3. It tasted great but came out flat like a pancake. Does anyone have any advice about how to make a high hydration loaf work?
Attachment 331096
Looks nice
Are you talking about working with a prefrement like a Poolish or just adding more water (changing the ratio). Either way, wetter dough has more slack and needs additional folding to make up for the lack of structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buke
When I make my 10% whole wheat bread the ratio is 1000g flour to 720g water. After Autolyse and mixing for 5mins I give my dough two folds within the first hour and a half of the total 5 hour rise. First fold is done within 10 mins of mixing and the second is done after another 40mins. The folding action is a grab from underneath and pull up and over so it's half of what it was. Not sure how many folds you will need but try and not fold less than an hour before the rise done.
Also when you are mixing make sure you mix until you feel the dough tighten up.
/my 2cents
Y'all sourdough people doing your initial mix with your hand, a spatula, or mixer?
I'm kinda pissed at Forkish right now. Why the shit did he have me make like 1000g of levain for a recipe that only used 216g of it?
For a first attempt, it looks enough like his picture, but I was not happy with whatever bread people call the inside of the loaf (crumb? Seriously, idfk).
Pure levain ferment, country blonde, page 169. Not a huge fan. Likely over-proofed though (or over-folded, or under folded, or accidentally punched back too much at shaping? Idfk. ) Kitchen's a mess. I like my make-it-up-as-I-go bread better.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4cd0aa93d7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...19a924291d.jpg
Attachment 331182Quote:
Originally Posted by KQ
Funny I was just looking at that recipe today. I've been hooked on his Saturday White made with 10% WW.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattig
Are you trying to make a true sourdough loaf or use it as starter? The only SD recipe I've ever used is from Cooks. It's a 24hr recipe that uses a overnight (refrigerated) rise. I've posted the recipe in this thread several times. Here it is again:
24-Hour Sourdough Bread
MAKES TWO INSTRUCTIONS 1 1/2-POUND LOAVES
WHY THIS RECIPE WORKS
In buying a ready-made starter for our sourdough bread recipe, we produced a flavorful loaf while eliminating the weeks of intense babysitting that cultivating a home starter requires. Turning our attention to the next two time-consuming stages of a sourdough recipe—sponge development and fermentation for the dough—we discovered that the time required for both steps could be reduced from two nights to just one day, again without sacrificing flavor. On a roll, we also tried to finish the third step—proofing the shaped loaves—on the same day, but we determined that they really did need to spend the time overnight in the refrigerator, since the loaves proofed at room temperature didn't achieve the same wonderfully irregular crumb and deep, nutty sourness.
INGREDIENTS
SPONGE
4½ ounces refreshed starter (½cup)
3–4 ounces bottled water or filtered, (⅜-½ cup), 80 degrees
5 ounces unbleached all-purpose flour (1 cup), with 11 to 13 percent protein content
DOUGH
12 ounces bottled water or filtered, (1 ½ cups), 70 degrees
24 ounces unbleached all-purpose flour (about 4 ¾cups) with 11 to 13 percent protein content
2½ teaspoons table salt
Once you have a healthy, refreshed starter the bread will take about 24 hours (over the course of two days) before it is ready for baking. It is best to start the recipe in the morning, no more than 12 hours after the last feeding of the starter.
Comments:
For the sponge, use the lower amount of water if you live in a humid climate. During kneading, this dough should not exceed a temperature of 80 degrees. If your kitchen is very warm or very cold, use water a few degrees cooler or warmer, respectively. A few pieces of equipment are highly recommended: digital scale, baking stone, parchment paper, instant-read thermometer, and spray bottle filled with water. A baking peel and razor blade are also handy but not essential. The dough can be kneaded by hand, but the kneading times must be doubled. When spritzing the loaves in the oven, be careful to avoid spraying water on the oven light.
1. MAKE THE SPONGE: In bowl or container with at least 1-quart capacity, use rubber spatula to stir together starter and water until fully combined. Stir in flour until combined; mixture should resemble thick pancake batter. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise at room temperature (about 72 degrees) until doubled in bulk, 2 to 3 hours.
2. MAKE THE DOUGH: Measure water into bowl of standing mixer; add sponge to water. Fit mixer with dough hook; with mixer running on lowest speed, add flour 1/2 cup at a time. Once all flour has been added, continue kneading until dough forms ball, about 1 minute longer. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let dough rest 20 minutes.
3. KNEAD THE DOUGH: Using fingers, create pocket in rested dough; add salt to pocket. Knead on low speed until dough is soft, smooth, and moist (dough should not be sticky), about 5 minutes. Transfer dough to clean work surface and knead by hand until dough forms firm ball, about 30 seconds.
4. LET THE DOUGH RISE: Lightly spray container or bowl with at least 4-quart capacity with nonstick cooking spray; place dough in container and lightly spray surface of dough. Take internal temperature of dough; then cover tightly with plastic wrap. If temperature registered below 78 degrees, set container at room temperature (about 70 degrees) in draft-free spot; if warmer than 78 degrees, set container at cool room temperature (about 65 degrees) in draft-free spot. Let stand until dough doubles in bulk, 3 to 5 hours.
5. STRETCH THE DOUGH: Scrape dough out onto clean work surface. Gently stretch dough (to distribute and refresh yeast) as far as possible without tearing, then fold it into thirds like a letter.
6. DIVIDE AND SHAPE THE DOUGH: Using bench scraper or chef's knife, divide dough in half, each piece weighing about 1 1/2 pounds. Form each half into rough ball, cover loosely with plastic wrap or damp kitchen towel, and let rest 15 minutes. To shape dough, use one hand to push dough against unfloured work surface, using other hand as guide. Goal is to make taught ball without ripping surface. Pinch bottom seam and set each round, seam side down, on separate sheets of parchment paper on dinner plates, rimless cookie sheets, or inverted rimmed baking sheets.
7. REFRIGERATE THE ROUNDS OVERNIGHT: Spray rounds lightly with nonstick cooking spray and cover loosely but completely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate overnight 8 to 12 hours.
8. PROOF AND SLASH THE ROUNDS: Remove rounds from refrigerator and gently slide onto room temperature surface where they can rise undisturbed for several hours; space them at least 6 inches apart. Loosen plastic wrap to allow rounds to rise; let rise until at least doubled in bulk and dough barely springs back when poked with your knuckle, 3 to 4 hours. Meanwhile, after about 2 hours, adjust oven rack to lower-middle position, place baking stone on rack, and heat oven to 500 degrees. Working one at a time, carefully slide rounds on parchment onto baking peel, rimless cookie sheet, or inverted rimmed baking sheet. Using sharp razor blade or knife held at 45-degree angle to work surface, slash surface of rounds 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep.
9. BAKE THE BREAD: Working quickly, spray loaves with water, slide onto baking stone, and immediately reduce oven temperature to 450 degrees. During first 5 minutes of baking, spray loaves with water 2 additional times; bake until deep golden brown and instant-read thermometer inserted into center of loaves registers about 210 degrees, about 30 minutes total. Transfer loaves to wire rack, discard parchment, and cool loaves to room temperature on wire rack, about 2 hours.
Not sure I understand the "true sourdough" question. I have starter going strong that I use for pizza and occasionally bread. I used that starter to make the levain at the start of that recipe. Followed the whole thing to the T.
I dunno... I'm no Ken Forkish but I wouldn't consider his Overnight Country Blonde a true sourdough. He describes it as a "beautiful, natural levain bread with just a bit of tang to it." I suppose I'm splitting hairs and probably talking out of my backside. Give this a read and see what you think:Quote:
Originally Posted by mattig
Sourdough or Levain?
Debunking the Myths and Mysteries of Harnessing Wild Yeast
I have a mixer that use initially. Let it set a couple hours and then mix in the salt.
Let it rise in another bowl rest of day then into fridge over night.
The next day I do multiple folds. Then proof.
On to the baking.
The Tartine 3 book seems to have recipes that have crazy high hydrations. I was trying to follow the spelt recipe and it called for something like 85% hydration (850g water for 1000g flour). I pared it back to 80% but it was still almost unworkable. I think I folded it 5 times throughout the bulk rise and I thought that it was developed enough but when I did the shaping it would just tear open instead of forming a tight ball. In retrospect, it's possible that I over fermented it. It seemed like it was more stable about an hour before i shaped it then it was when I finally did the shaping.Quote:
Originally Posted by KQ
I guess if I try it again I'll probably focus on doing more turns and letting it bulk ferment for a shorter time.
For basic bread, the kind of stuff that people call "artisan" bread or more accurately lean bread (ie no fats added, just water, flour, and salt) I do it all by hand, although I find that using a silicone spatula for the initial mixing keeps things a lot cleaner and saves me from having to wash a ton of sticky flour down the drain. For enriched dough, like cinnamon rolls, doughnuts, brioche, etc, I use a the kitchenaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattig
Thank you. This is basically where I'm at as well. Much easier to use water to keep hands clean after using spatula for initial mixing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buke
With Tartine recipes I find there's a pretty wide range of correction for weather that's not NorCal.
If you have a nice vigorous starter, make sure you do the appropriate folds in the first few hours and don't be afraid to let bulk ferm go longer than recommended if you're not maintaining 75-80 degree temps. Alternatively put it in the oven with just the light on.
Also, don't be afraid to do a little sprinkle of commercial yeast in your sourdough. I do like a 16th of a teaspoon and it helps a lot with spring.
Additionally, I sometimes shape 2-3 times if the dough isn't keeping good shape.
this is all super helpful, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by schuss
i have good crumb (good bread holes and texture) and good crust, but my loaves come out flat and they definitely don't hold shape. very little oven spring.
any other advice for good spring and nice, taught loves?
Practice your shaping game and make sure you have a vigorous starter (like, frothy) or dope with commercial yeast. Sometimes I shape 2-3 times. Also be gentle and conserve those gas bubbles.
That said I'm a hack at this, just have made adjustments as Tartines directions are often optimistic/incomplete for beginners.
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Went back to flour the heck out of the Blanton since I was getting stickage with plastic wrap. It stuck anyway and fell into a searing hot Dutch oven crooked. Straightened it up best I could.
Turned out ok.
New high moisture dough mix seems to be fine and decided to use a bit of turbinado sugar to give the yeast starter a boost, 2 tablespoons worth.
Do you have a liner in your Brotform?Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
I have these and they work great:
Farielyn-X 2 Packs 9 Inch Bread Banneton Proofing Basket
Dang it. I knew there was something I was forgetting.
Can you remind me next time I make bread?
Yep, well floured linen is the way
I use my KitchenAid Artisan mixer and the whole process is super easy, but yesterday tried a fully hand mixed loaf, that took about 7 hours of being home to fold every hour. I won't repeat that process, I felt too tied to the kitchen counter.
Attachment 331584
Here's the recipe I always follow (one loaf)
Keep your starter refrigerated until you are going to use it. Try to keep about 50 grams. The night before you want to start making bread take the starter out and add 60 grams of 80° water and 60 grams of flour. Mix thoroughly. Leave out covered loosely in a warmish place in your kitchen.
In the morning your starter should have doubled in size and be lively and bubbly. To test whether it is ready take a bowl of lukewarm water and drop in a spoonful. If it floats it is ready to use. Place a large bowl on your scale and measure out 400 grams of bread flour and 100 grams of whole wheat flour
Remove that bowl from scale and place mixmaster bowl on scale. Measure 100 grams of your sourdough starter and 350 grams of 80° water. Take a spatula and stir it until starter breaks up.
Pour flour into mixmaster bowl and stir with spatula until most of the flour is moist . It should look like a shaggy mess.
Cover with a dish towel and leave out for 35 minutes
Place mixer bowl on mixer and attach bread hook. Sprinkle 10 grams of salt into the bowl. Turn mixer to low and mix for ten minutes.
Turn dough on to a clean smooth surface, You will now perform a series of three “slap and folds.” Since you have already done ten minutes in mix master you only need to do four or five folds. Cover the dough with a dish towel and repeat the “slap and fold” technique” twice more at 10 minute intervals.
Move dough into a large bowl (preferably glass so you can see the bubbles as the dough proofs and let it rise until the sides are all bubbly and it has doubled in size. This can take anywhere from three to five hours depending on the temperature in your kitchen.
Now it is time to shape your dough. Pour dough onto counter. Go to you tube and watch a video about “shaping dough.” Once you have shaped your dough, place in banetton and refrigerate over night covered with towel.
That's a good looking loaf. Curious about folding as much as you did - I only fold twice in the first 1.5hrs of a 5hr. rise. Seems to be sufficient as I a nice rise and great crumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by yogachik
It was something I found on YouTube - and thought I'd give it a try. The appeal was keeping the levain separate from the autolyse for the first hour.
This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTTynk20KCI&t=614s
Kewl video
T4S
Are you being facetious? Did I miss where you said you had liners already?Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.Quote:
Originally Posted by yogachik
I do have one, instructions seemed to indicate to put it over the bowl once dough was inside. Probably miss read it and been doing it wrong since.
Bad habits hard to break.
Making bread inspire of myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Liner in brotform dust well with flour carefully place dough seam side down in form dust top lightly with flour and cover with a clean dry towel preferably one that has never been bleached or had fabric softener used on it.
I have specific towels that I only use for baking. Flour sack are great but any fine/tight weave (non-terry) towel works. When I wash them I use a non-scented soap, no bleach (use vinegar) and no fabric softener. You don't want to impart any fragrance to your dough or whatever it is you're baking.
I cover with a basic shower cap (like the kind you get from a hotel), or a 2 gallon plastic bag. Flour towels work great, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by KQ
I have to say, the marathon folding and proving dough from the weekend really made a spectacular crumb and flavor. I may have to do it again (the video I posted, above).
Beautiful. What's your secret to getting such a good ear?Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Just make a 45 degree or so curved cut on the top of the loaf. Saw it in a bread video.
I did one on each side opposite of each other.
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Attachment 332181
My dad liked sourdough. Made dough Wednesday and proofed overnight. He passed early Thursday morning (expected and frankly overdue). Baked these Thursday and enjoyed the round one with 2 dear friends who brought over a 2012 Martinelli Syrah to toast him Thursday evening. The bread turned out great. I'll miss you, Dad.
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