OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

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Originally Posted by Below Zero

2. You must have a "snow driving" endorsement on your license to drive the I70 corridor in winter. These tests could be given every five years. I amazes me to see how many people drive like absolute pussies (or are scared to death) when driving in even the slightest amount of snow. You need to practice driving in snow and understand your vehicle to drive in snow.

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This would never fly because the ski resorts would be viciously opposed to it, as it would mean that out of state tourons would not be able to rent a car and drive themselves to the hill, which means those tourons would take their business to other states.

If the law only applied to CO drivers, WTF is the point?

4WD/AWD w/ M&S rated tires, 2WD w/ snow tires or chains. No checkpoints, but very large fines if found non-compliant after an accident or rescue. Easy.

Require car rental companies to install snow tires on every car during winter months!

I'm not comparing the volume of traffic in SW CO vs. I-70, just what the "chain law" requirement is down there. If anything the higher volume of traffic should call for a chain law here.

Pull off in Georgetown, use the current chain up spots on I-70 that magically don't get used that much by the truckers? Either way, not doing it because it's too hard is a weak argument. Something needs to change.

So the pavement gets chewed up a bit more? You don't think CalTrans in Tahoe doesn't deal with that? Why can't CDOT, it's the highest most mountainous stretch of interstate in the country, it's gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

4WD/AWD w/ M&S rated tires, 2WD w/ snow tires or chains. No checkpoints, but very large fines if found non-compliant after an accident or rescue. Easy.

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This, as I've said many times. Maybe checkpoints, as a last resort, if it doesn't seem to be helping.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

This would never fly because the ski resorts would be viciously opposed to it, as it would mean that out of state tourons would not be able to rent a car and drive themselves to the hill, which means those tourons would take their business to other states.

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Good point, never thought of that.

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Originally Posted by soups818

This, as I've said many times. Maybe checkpoints, as a last resort, if it doesn't seem to be helping.

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The state troopers and CDOT idea that coupons attached to windshields in ski resort parking lots, is going to be effective, IMHO, is absolutely ridiculous. It better be a heavy discount for someone to actually go out and buy snow tires!

Edit: And is this discount being subsidized by our tax dollars?

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Originally Posted by Below Zero

The state troopers and CDOT idea that coupons attached to windshields in ski resort parking lots, is going to be effective, IMHO, is absolutely ridiculous. It better be a heavy discount for someone to actually go out and buy snow tires!

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Agreed. By checkpoints I meant on actual I-70 to see if you have chains or snows on.

Although the parking lot thing would maybe help to get the word out if they put the damn chain law into effect!

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Originally Posted by montanaskier

I agree that it's the road and the drivers. 70 is a really tough stretch of road. People certainly don't give it the respect it deserves. People think "I drove in snow everyday on Chicago or Indy or wherever ". But it's just such a different animal. Good tires and slow down would stop a lot of accidents. Also strongly agree the fine for the rigs that don't chain up should be ALOT higher. Make em feel the pain!

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Gotta agree on the respect part bigtime. It's a gnarly road but the danger of it seems to get downplayed due to the volume of drivers on it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using TGR Forums

Jeebus I can't believe the CO natives haven't set the record streight on this topic yet. Guess a CA native will have to do it;

CA snow and CO snow are WILDLY different. Most CO snow is dry and cold and just blows off of the road. CA snow is mostly wet and sticky. CA snow stays on the road no matter what the wind is doing. Chains only work if they have something, like say a later of heavy snow, to bite into. Chains do not work, and in fact make driving even more treacherous on bare asphalt or concrete.

Unless you are driving a sports car with tires specially designed for high speeds, you ARE driving on snow tires. Don't take my word for it, go look at your tires. See the "M&S" mark? That means they are rated for mud and snow. I.e. Snow tires. Not to be confused for studded tires. We don't have studded tires in CA so I'll leave that to the CO and East Coast mags to expound upon.

If you really want the tourons to drive safely, require all rental cars to be AWD/FWD. Not gonna happen.

Now a question for the CO natives;
Why the hell is it so expensive to rent cars from DIA? We're talking extortion expensive! I saved $1000 last year on a week long rental by renting a compact car out of DIA for a day, driving to CO Springs and trading for a full-sized SUV for a week. That's $ saved over if I had kept the compact car out of DIA. Crazy.

couple things to respone to boarddad.

1. He's right. M+S means "mud and snow" and those are snow tires. Keep in mind there is a difference between "performance" snow tires, which are "H" speed rated and "regular" snow tires which have a much lower speed rating.
2. Studded snow tires are not needed along the I70 corridor. Studs help with ice, which is (generally) not a concern here. I've never once said, "Oh I wish I had studs today"
3. I won't say "CO snow...just blows off the road". Yes, it's drier than CA snow, of course, but during an decent storm the roads are usually snow packed.
4. Agreed, no rental care should be RWD. At minimum FWD with snow tires for driving I70 in winter months. I'm a huge fan of AWD, but please not RWD when driving I70 in the winter.
5. I really don't think you ever need chains for a passenger vehicle along I70.

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Originally Posted by boarddad

Jeebus I can't believe the CO natives haven't set the record streight on this topic yet. Guess a CA native will have to do it;

CA snow and CO snow are WILDLY different. Most CO snow is dry and cold and just blows off of the road. CA snow is mostly wet and sticky. CA snow stays on the road no matter what the wind is doing. Chains only work if they have something, like say a later of heavy snow, to bite into. Chains do not work, and in fact make driving even more treacherous on bare asphalt or concrete.

Unless you are driving a sports car with tires specially designed for high speeds, you ARE driving on snow tires. Don't take my word for it, go look at your tires. See the "M&S" mark? That means they are rated for mud and snow. I.e. Snow tires. Not to be confused for studded tires. We don't have studded tires in CA so I'll leave that to the CO and East Coast mags to expound upon.

If you really want the tourons to drive safely, require all rental cars to be AWD/FWD. Not gonna happen.

Now a question for the CO natives;
Why the hell is it so expensive to rent cars from DIA? We're talking extortion expensive! I saved $1000 last year on a week long rental by renting a compact car out of DIA for a day, driving to CO Springs and trading for a full-sized SUV for a week. That's $ saved over if I had kept the compact car out of DIA. Crazy.

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I think we all realize the difference in CA vs CO snow. When you get up past Silver Plume going west and climbing up east to the tunnel during a huge dump the roads are covered and rutted, chains would infinitely help on 2-wheel drive passenger cars if you're cheap and don't want to buy a second set of snow tires.

Cars at DIA are so expensive because it's in fucking Kansas and there's nowhere else to rent a car. I wonder if that will change once the light rail goes in out there. If you can save a grand and take the light rail downtown to an off-site rental place, sounds like it'd be worth the PITA of doing it.

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Originally Posted by boarddad

CA snow and CO snow are WILDLY different. Most CO snow is dry and cold and just blows off of the road. CA snow is mostly wet and sticky. CA snow stays on the road no matter what the wind is doing. Chains only work if they have something, like say a later of heavy snow, to bite into. Chains do not work, and in fact make driving even more treacherous on bare asphalt or concrete.

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Um, the accidents causing huge traffic jams are happening during and directly after storms, when the roads are not bare. You know, covered in snow and ice.

I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to think that requiring chains on dry roads is going to help things.

Also, M&S all-season tires are not the same thing as dedicated winter tires (aka what everyone is calling "snow tires"), which can be studded or non-studded.

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Originally Posted by soups818

When you get up past Silver Plume going west and climbing up east to the tunnel during a huge dump the roads are covered and rutted, chains would infinitely help on 2-wheel drive passenger cars.

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True, but I don't think that chains will help here. Chains should only be used on snow-packed roads. "Rutted" areas have exposed asphalt, which chains don't like; I think that would actually make the car harder to handle, no?

Yeah buying chains for your car is cheaper than snow tires, but man, it's such a hassle to chain up. If you have money to drive I70 and ski, you surely must be able to find some dough to fork over some funds for snow tires, and forget any chaining hassle.

In ground heating on select portions.

Hmmmm...maybe I was wrong about the M+S. Looks like you need the snowflake and the mountain for "official" snow tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=125

I should clarify...

Chains only required for 2-wheel drive vehicles without H rated tires or whatever they are (i.e. Blizzacks). And only required when it's a shit show out and the roads are covered, icy, and you're plowing through the ruts. It can still be rutted out without having bare asphalt. Precisely the conditions mulitple times last year that took people 6-8hrs to get back to Denver, not every time it snows a little or every time there's a chain restriction for commercial vehicles.

I saw an Accord with chains towing cars and small SUVs out of the gutter on the hill out of Silverthorne one icy morning last winter. It was badass to say the least!

They did a good job this week keeping it open during this pretty big event.

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Originally Posted by montanaskier

They did a good job this week keeping it open during this pretty big event.

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Sounds like it. Never made it up there since I was down in Pueblo for work. In the 4 days of snow did it close at all? If it did, I never heard about it.

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Now a question for the CO natives;
Why the hell is it so expensive to rent cars from DIA? We're talking extortion expensive! I saved $1000 last year on a week long rental by renting a compact car out of DIA for a day, driving to CO Springs and trading for a full-sized SUV for a week. That's $ saved over if I had kept the compact car out of DIA. Crazy.

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Try Silver Car, it is a new company that only rents silver audi a4's. It is pretty inexpensive and they rent out of DIA now. ONly aoubt 7 locations nationwide.

WIth that said, have no idea how you guys do that drive. I was going to cape haterous about 1 months ago, driving from Basalt (aspen area) to dia (didnt fly out of aspen because of shit show at the airport.
Anyway, clear as day out and i 70 east bound was shut over Vail Pass. Was the first snow and it left about 2 inches on the ground. We saw the closure sign and went around, but WTF.
That road is such a disaster.

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Originally Posted by Below Zero

Hmmmm...maybe I was wrong about the M+S. Looks like you need the snowflake and the mountain for "official" snow tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=125

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Yes, M + S stamp on a tire is an industry designation. Like self proclaiming you are the best skier on the mtn. Any tire can technically have this stamp. The only tires that should be referred to as snow tires by people on this site should be the one stamped with the mountain snow flake symbol as they actually have to go through standardized testing.

The Oregon rule http://www.tripcheck.com/Pages/chain-laws.asp requires even 4wd cars in certain posted conditions to carry chains in vehicle or have snow tires (mtn snow flake symbol). It is at least something, but rarely enforced.

I have never used chains and until a few years ago, never used dedicated snow tires, but as more people travel to the mountains, I think it would benefit all to have some rules in place that are actually enforced.

I get 30 or so days in a year at the local hill and when I was in colorado, more. There are very rare days that warrant a need/real want for snow tires for me, but more instances out here than in Colorado due to a lot of the snow falling at feezing level mixed with high winds glazing the surface. Plus a lot of off camber sections where traffic gets stopped. Dry snow in cold temps usually has the grip and 4wd/AWD is typically adequate in those situations. I would hate to put on chains. Went 20 plus years with no chains or dedicated snows in fact, just all-terrains, but the increase in grip is there with the blizzaks of the world and would help the jongs not cause accidents.

'Bama skier, as the thread starter, or a mod:

Can you add a poll to this thread? Anonymous, and allowing of multiple options if possible?

Such as:

In the winter, I roll with:
- AWD/4WD
-Snowflake tires
-All seasons
-Carry chains
-2WD and rally it like it's rented

Would be interested in what the active skier population actually runs, and the distribution.

In answer to the poll:

I have an old Jeep Cherokee with all weather Good Years, nothing special, but I don't let them get worn out either. Th Jeep is squirrelly as hell in 2WD and in 4WD is great. So far so good. I would like to have a set of chains just to have them, but have yet to pull the trigger.

4WD and all terrains.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

'Bama skier, as the thread starter, or a mod:

Can you add a poll to this thread? Anonymous, and allowing of multiple options if possible?

Such as:

In the winter, I roll with:
- AWD/4WD
-Snowflake tires
-All seasons
-Carry chains
-2WD and rally it like it's rented

Would be interested in what the active skier population actually runs, and the distribution.

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might need to add a category for A/T tires for trucks. Not really the same as "all seasons" but not "snowflake" tires. I have not had true snow tires since i was driving my pos Ford Escort in the early 90s. But I feel pretty good running BFG A/Ts or something similar, even if they're not a snow tire.