PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

I can't understand how you get a drill bit to wander. If you use an awl, just push it through the top sheet (and through the paper template if that's what you're using) . If it's just a teenie tiny mark, use something a bit more blunt to enlarge it, before engaging the drill.

Whenever you use a hammer to punch, you risk it jumping off target.

Now, if you made a properly enough wide hole in the topsheet with your hand tools, your drill bit will never ever wander, even if a hand held drill is used.

Just to be clear, if you think you need a drill press to drill your effin skis. Maybe you should ask your shop or your wife to do it for you.

Jeeezzz!

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

it is crap.

The spring is linear (I've never heard of an alpine binding with progressive springs, as is used in for instance mountain biking), meaning that is no more accurate in the middle than at the ends. So if it is accurate - aka releases at the value it is supposed to in the middle - it will be consistent throughout. The preload does not alter the curve / progressivity of the spring, it just adjusts the break away threshold aka the initial force required to have the spring move. The curve will be linear aka a straight line regardless.

Yeah, I know that the marketing blurb tells you to splurge on a higher din binding for "safety", but the ONLY difference between a Pivot 12 og 14 or 15 and 18 is the spring. So unless you need the lower/higher end, having a heavier spring yields no performance benefit at all outside of saving/gaining a few grams.

take this for what is worth - it is an opinion. I do not claim to know everything, so there might be bindings out there that works differently. Pivots do not though.

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To play devils advocate:

Using your mountain bike example, if you have a coil sprung rear shock and want the same force at bottom out, you can either have a properly spec’d spring that requires very little preload, or you could be way under sprung, requiring you to crank down that preload.

On the properly spec’d spring you’d have good responsiveness off the top, and good support through the range of travel. With a severely undersized spring with a ton of preload you’d need a lot of force to get moving initially, but then blow through the travel quickly once things get moving.

So couldn’t something similar happen with a binding? If you need the same torque at release (akin to bottom out force above) then could the binding behave differently if you are at the bottom of the din range (little preload) vs. at the top (lots of preload)?

If using the bottom of the din range, the binding would start moving earlier but take more effort to move through the elastic travel, whereas at the top of the din range you’d be locked in place while applying more force, and then once things start moving you blow through the elastic travel more easily?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waxoff

I can't understand how you get a drill bit to wander. If you use an awl, just push it through the top sheet (and through the paper template if that's what you're using) . If it's just a teenie tiny mark, use something a bit more blunt to enlarge it, before engaging the drill.

Whenever you use a hammer to punch, you risk it jumping off target.

Now, if you made a properly enough wide hole in the topsheet with your hand tools, your drill bit will never ever wander, even if a hand held drill is used.

Just to be clear, if you think you need a drill press to drill your effin skis. Maybe you should ask your shop or your wife to do it for you.

Jeeezzz!

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No drill press. Just a $10-20 guide block. Worth it to me to ensure a straight hole that is right on the mark.



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How close have people put new holes to pre existing quiver killers? It seems I should be able to go fairly close but looking for those with experience before drilling. Looks like it’ll be 7mm center of quiver killed mount to center of new hole.

Its been a day and nobody answered you

I don't use quiver killers but 1 cm between holes is pretty much the rule of thumb for hole spacing altho people will tell you they have done all kinds of things and it worked

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EWG

Ok, we've talked a ton about how the "you can't use the whole DIN range, you have to be in the middle" is crap. I believe it's crap.

That said, I'm about to put a DIN 4 or 4.5 skier on Attack 14s, which have a range from 4-14. We confident that's a good idea?

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The only thing I'd be wary of is step in difficulty. Some of those bigger bindings are just harder to step into (even at the low end of the adjustment range) because they are simply designed for bigger people. Not a big deal if you're talking like...an excited kid with lots of energy who will happily kick their boot at the binding until it works after crashing in soft snow. But maybe more of a big deal if you are talking about a nervous kid or a spouse who gets frustrated/flustered when things don't work smoothly.

That being said, Attack heels are pretty easy to step into so it should be fine.
If you were trying the same with Marker Griffons I might say it is a risky move and you should go find a cheap pair of Squire 10 or Squire 11 TCX demos with the easy-mode heels--made a big difference for my wife!

I couldn't step into the marker barons even after ACL recovery and I was skiing again, it took a couple years of PT to be able to get the heel down and i think all the marker product might be a problem for smaller people

I recommend emailing Quiver Killer and/or Binding Freedom for advice regarding spacing. Because the original holes contain the SS inserts, I’d think they are plenty rigid and could therefore potentially allow for a shorter than 1cm mounting distance to the new hole.

That said, it looks like you’re looking for a super close mount at 3mm or less if the center-to-center distance is about 7mm. Unless you are trying to fit the new holes between two sets of existing holes (third mount?), I’d probably just shift the new mount by 1/2 a cm or so.

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Originally Posted by gwat

You keep regurgitating your one data point about your buddy’s one remounted ski…..Marcel Hirscher can feel the difference between different colours of boot plastics! so there is that.
Skier skill and snow conditions are definitely factors in sensitivity to changes in mount point.

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So much of this.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by altacoup

How close have people put new holes to pre existing quiver killers? It seems I should be able to go fairly close but looking for those with experience before drilling. Looks like it’ll be 7mm center of quiver killed mount to center of new hole.

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Too close. The inserts themselves are like 7-8mm in outer diameter? They’ll be touching.

10mm center to center is the general rule of thumb for normal screws, and 15mm for inserts. I’d feel comfortable doing 10mm, particularly if it’s a ski with a metal top sheep or really hard wood core, and/or you’re 10mm from a normal plugged hole (not another insert).


Re the discussion about mounting the toe with one screw then drilling the other 3… Yall been smoking too much? That is Introducing so much more room for the toe piece to shift and be off-angle when you’re taking the boot in/out. Even if it doesn’t shift, there’s enough slop and tolerance in the bindings front to back that it’s more likely that you will think everything is square and aligned, but the toe is really actually a few degrees off angle. Particularly because on most toe pieces you cannot access all of holes with the boot in it to mark them. Also a terrible idea on alpine boots because locking in the heel will put too much forward pressure on the single toe screw, maybe on pin bindings it’s fine, but that doesn’t fix the alignment issues.

Just be careful to align the front and rear piece of paper very parallel/collinear (use a ruler to check the lines), tape the front and rear paper templates together across the whole width top and bottom so the two paper pieces cannot pivot relative to one another.

Carefully line the template centered on the ski (I used a square wood block against the ski edges and a ruler across the top, finding the center of the ski based off the base width, not the top sheet.

Use a center punch and manually (by hand) make a divot for all 16 holes in the ski top sheet through the paper. It’s not hard to do, even on wood veneer skis. Then I take a hammer and make the divot bigger (never use the hammer first).

Then you can hand drill, use a drill press has a guide block, whatever and drill your holes

I’ve mounted at least 80 pairs of skis this way, half of those for inserts. Never once been crooked or had any alignment issues.

I will say shop jigs are way more likely to have the (whole binding) crooked or 2-3mm off center. I’ve bought a lot of skis with previous mounts that very off

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Re the discussion about mounting the toe with one screw then drilling the other 3… Yall been smoking too much? That is Introducing so much more room for the toe piece to shift and be off-angle when you’re taking the boot in/out. Even if it doesn’t shift, there’s enough slop and tolerance in the bindings front to back that it’s more likely that you will think everything is square and aligned, but the toe is really actually a few degrees off angle. Particularly because on most toe pieces you cannot access all of holes with the boot in it to mark them. Also a terrible idea on alpine boots because locking in the heel will put too much forward pressure on the single toe screw, maybe on pin bindings it’s fine, but that doesn’t fix the alignment issues.

f

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its too late, people are already using the Brian-tologist method and finding it works for tech and frame bindings to get the boot heel OR tail of binding dropping into the pins or rear of binding frame perfectly

besides that 1st screw you only need to get one other screw in ( easy ) or crank that 1st screw hard when the boot is locked into the binding which is where the boot will end up any how .

This method was not suggested for non-frame or non-tech bindings

which begs the question ... what have you been smoking ?

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Originally Posted by TahoeJosh

I recommend emailing Quiver Killer and/or Binding Freedom for advice regarding spacing. Because the original holes contain the SS inserts, I’d think they are plenty rigid and could therefore potentially allow for a shorter than 1cm mounting distance to the new hole.

That said, it looks like you’re looking for a super close mount at 3mm or less if the center-to-center distance is about 7mm. Unless you are trying to fit the new holes between two sets of existing holes (third mount?), I’d probably just shift the new mount by 1/2 a cm or so.

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Mount is on some hojis which are sensitive to mount point. Pin bindings all have fairly similar mounting patterns. But the skis were quiver killed for dynafit radicals which I find completely unskiable due to the ridiculous ramp angle. To bring the ramp angle to even skiable angle would necessitate an absurd toe stack. I have multiple binding ( shift, vario 2 [also needs custom toe shim ] marker alpinist) options but they all overlap. Shift has the most heel movement but either requires the 7mm distance or really fucking with the mount point and I really like hoji recommended mounts on all his skis.

question for the professionals

I just scored a sick deal on some DW104s
they have two previous tele mounts
can I insert wooden dowels with good glue, chisel then flush, and then just mount on top of them?
what's the best way to manage the conflict?



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Mount is on some hojis which are sensitive to mount point. Pin bindings all have fairly similar mounting patterns. But the skis were quiver killed for dynafit radicals which I find completely unskiable due to the ridiculous ramp angle. To bring the ramp angle to even skiable angle would necessitate an absurd toe stack. I have multiple binding ( shift, vario 2 [also needs custom toe shim ] marker alpinist) options but they all overlap. Shift has the most heel movement but either requires the 7mm distance or really fucking with the mount point and I really like hoji recommended mounts on all his skis.

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How many of the holes are close? If it was me, I'd consider removing at least the nearby inserts and filling the holes with wood dowels & epoxy. Cure and reinstall the inserts in the new holes where you want them.

Heat the inserts w/soldering iron to soften the epoxy to extract them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tgapp

question for the professionals

I just scored a sick deal on some DW104s
they have two previous tele mounts
can I insert wooden dowels with good glue, chisel then flush, and then just mount on top of them?
what's the best way to manage the conflict?

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Use epoxy instead of wood glue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tgapp

question for the professionals
what's the best way to manage the conflict?

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Drop the knee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tgapp

question for the professionals

I just scored a sick deal on some DW104s
they have two previous tele mounts
can I insert wooden dowels with good glue, chisel then flush, and then just mount on top of them?
what's the best way to manage the conflict?



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You really want to make sure the dowels are a little bit short so you can have a thin layer of epoxy on top to fully seal.

It's a bit of a pain but it's worth it IMO.

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yeah good idea IMO, i have done this ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

You really want to make sure the dowels are a little bit short so you can have a thin layer of epoxy on top to fully seal.

It's a bit of a pain but it's worth it IMO.

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Good idea. How do you shorten the wood dowels, skewers or plugs? A Japanese saw, an Irwin pull saw or Xacto miter saw work great for cutting dowels flush to top sheets. Seems like a little countersinking or drilling afterwords could quickly provide enough room for the epoxy cap/seal.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlpiNord

Good idea. How do you shorten the wood dowels, skewers or plugs? A Japanese saw, an Irwin pull saw or Xacto miter saw work great for cutting dowels flush to top sheets. Seems like a little countersinking or drilling afterwords could quickly provide enough room for the epoxy cap/seal.


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I've always just used a pull saw equivalent to cut them flush, rasp or sharp chisel to get them closer, epoxy over the top and finish with a little fine sand paper after 24 hours to take down any excess. Perfectly flat sounds nice in theory, but I'm not sure it is worth the effort since I have never seen even the slight hump that might be left conflict with the new bindings going on. I like the idea of running a counter sink on the top to take it slightly below the topsheet through. Will try that next time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Mount is on some hojis which are sensitive to mount point. Pin bindings all have fairly similar mounting patterns. But the skis were quiver killed for dynafit radicals which I find completely unskiable due to the ridiculous ramp angle. To bring the ramp angle to even skiable angle would necessitate an absurd toe stack. I have multiple binding ( shift, vario 2 [also needs custom toe shim ] marker alpinist) options but they all overlap. Shift has the most heel movement but either requires the 7mm distance or really fucking with the mount point and I really like hoji recommended mounts on all his skis.

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I would go for it at 7mm. The pullout strength and general structural strength of the insert far exceeds the strength of the ski core.

I fill binding holes with JB Weld Quick Wood epoxy putty and I’ve remounted bindings with holes touching and never had a problem. I’m 6’5” 245#.

The “Briantologist” method that XXXer posts about is the same way Lou Dawson used/recommended 20 years ago for Dynafits and published on Wild Snow. Probably where Brian read about it.


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Although I’ve only a got a few remounts under my belt, I’ve been using skewers, and cutting them in a mitre box with a stop block, and a finish saw. It takes a couple try’s to set the block in the right spot, and you definitely get a couple that split and become useless, but once you’re set up, it’s just a couple of swipes with a saw to cut each. A usual, I probably make things a little more complicated than it needs to be, but it works.

I just pre-cut the dowels a little short of the hole depth with an exacto blade, put epoxy in the hole, and then use a punch or similar to push the dowel down into the hole.

Some of the epoxy squeezes out past the dowel and onto the top, and I add a little more on top of there wasn't enough.

I haven't tried cutting flush with the topsheet and drilling down, but I was a bit worried about the bit wandering.

And then you have a second step of epoxy whereas my way is only 1 cure.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I just pre-cut the dowels a little short of the hole depth with an exacto blade, put epoxy in the hole, and then use a punch or similar to push the dowel down into the hole.

Some of the epoxy squeezes out past the dowel and onto the top, and I add a little more on top of there wasn't enough.

I haven't tried cutting flush with the topsheet and drilling down, but I was a bit worried about the bit wandering.

And then you have a second step of epoxy whereas my way is only 1 cure.

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How close can you mount to the old holes using this method?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I just pre-cut the dowels a little short of the hole depth with an exacto blade, put epoxy in the hole, and then use a punch or similar to push the dowel down into the hole.

Some of the epoxy squeezes out past the dowel and onto the top, and I add a little more on top of there wasn't enough.

I haven't tried cutting flush with the topsheet and drilling down, but I was a bit worried about the bit wandering.

And then you have a second step of epoxy whereas my way is only 1 cure.

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This is great, thanks. I was doing it the other way (pull saw, rasp, counter sink, epoxy over top) but your way is much easier and, as you say, only one step.

JB Weld Quick Wood putty has significantly more strength than wood dowels. You can drill, tap and sand it and it’s waterproof. Pack it in the holes let it cure and plane it smooth. Treat ski as new.


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Nylon screws FTW. I fixed my most butchered mount with them. Screwing something to the core + epoxy gives a much better mechanical connection.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6b06f72cca.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlpiNord

Good idea. How do you shorten the wood dowels, skewers or plugs? A Japanese saw, an Irwin pull saw or Xacto miter saw work great for cutting dowels flush to top sheets. Seems like a little countersinking or drilling afterwords could quickly provide enough room for the epoxy cap/seal.


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I cut the dowels off with one of these (razor scraper). Works great if you have a sharp blade. FWIW, this is also how I remove puckering from previous mount holes. Carefully.

Attachment 505881

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

JB Weld Quick Wood putty has significantly more strength than wood dowels. You can drill, tap and sand it and it’s waterproof. Pack it in the holes let it cure and plane it smooth. Treat ski as new.

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Ok. I don't know if it can get any easier than this. But now what do I do with all the dowels I have on hand?

Edit: Looking into this, it appears the JB Weld WoodWeld has greater strength. Overkill?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

JB Weld Quick Wood putty has significantly more strength than wood dowels. You can drill, tap and sand it and it’s waterproof. Pack it in the holes let it cure and plane it smooth. Treat ski as new.


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I think I would find the putty difficult to fully pack in wich a tight hole, no?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tgapp

How close can you mount to the old holes using this method?

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I'm not the kind of person who pushes these tolerances as far as they might be able to go so I have not done less than 1cm center to center.

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Originally Posted by The Iron Horse;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji639]]Ok. I don't know if it can get any easier than this. But now what do I do with all the dowels I have on hand?

Edit: Looking into this, it appears the JB Weld WoodWeld has greater strength. Overkill?

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I’ve used that as well. I didn’t see much difference. I usually grab what’s on the hook at Ace.


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Originally Posted by Shorty_J;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]I think I would find the putty difficult to fully pack in wich a tight hole, no?

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I use a tool, in my case I use a pop rivet. Put a blob of putty over the hole and pack it in there until you can’t get anymore in. Let it cure and plane smooth.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I would go for it at 7mm. The pullout strength and general structural strength of the insert far exceeds the strength of the ski core.

I fill binding holes with JB Weld Quick Wood epoxy putty and I’ve remounted bindings with holes touching and never had a problem. I’m 6’5” 245#.

The “Briantologist” method that XXXer posts about is the same way Lou Dawson used/recommended 20 years ago for Dynafits and published on Wild Snow. Probably where Brian read about it.


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the thing with JB weld or any runny glue is that IME voids are left in the hole unless you put something solid in the hole which is why I use the BBQ skewer which I found in the kitchen on a dark and stormy night but if can scam some plugs from the ski tech I will use those. Everytime I look at the skis I used silver J/B weld on I think fuck is that stuff ever ugly on a ski top

I say 1cm as a " best practise " thing but put holes as close as you dare , I don't think any thing I put in the hole gives the ski core back its original strength either to resist breaking in half or the screw pulling out, but if it works it works ,

the Bri guy gave me the 30 sec " Briantologist metho " over his mounting bench, so for me it was an instant eureka moment but he never said where he got the method which apparently doesnt work but maybe if we say its the " Lou Dawson method " it will suddenly work ;) ? The Bri guy did build the Hankin Evelyn ski area and was one of the 1st people ski touring around here originally for avalanche control

https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yh...3&action=click

IME if you go skiing with this guy he will make you carry something

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I just pre-cut the dowels a little short of the hole depth with an exacto blade, put epoxy in the hole, and then use a punch or similar to push the dowel down into the hole.

Some of the epoxy squeezes out past the dowel and onto the top, and I add a little more on top of there wasn't enough.

I haven't tried cutting flush with the topsheet and drilling down, but I was a bit worried about the bit wandering.

And then you have a second step of epoxy whereas my way is only 1 cure.

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I grind mine down with a dremel and it only takes a second. But you do have to do the epoxy in two stages which adds a day to the overall time. I use a little digital scale that reads milligrams to accurately mix tiny batches of GFlex so at least I don’t have much waste.


To make things look good, color the top of your wood plugs with a sharpie that matches the top sheet. If you want to go overboard for exposed holes you can even try to add a little pigment to the top coat epoxy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

the thing with JB weld or any runny glue is that IME voids are left in the hole unless you put something solid in the hole which is why I use the BBQ skewer which I found in the kitchen on a dark and stormy night but if can scam some plugs from the ski tech I will use those. Everytime I look at the skis I used silver J/B weld on I think fuck is that stuff ever ugly on a ski top

I say 1cm as a " best practise " thing but put holes as close as you dare , I don't think any thing I put in the hole gives the ski core back its original strength either to resist breaking in half or the screw pulling out, but if it works it works ,

the Bri guy gave me the 30 sec " Briantologist metho " over his mounting bench, so for me it was an instant eureka moment but he never said where he got the method which apparently doesnt work but maybe if we say its the " Lou Dawson method " it will suddenly work ;) ? The Bri guy did build the Hankin Evelyn ski area and was one of the 1st people ski touring around here originally for avalanche control

https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yh...3&action=click

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The key word for the epoxy is “putty” maybe you don’t recognize that word in Canada. You don’t get voids because you pack it in the holes with a tool. I’ve used skewers as well. I was using the epoxy wood putty to repair something around the house and I had an epiphany. Use it for binding holes! I never looked back to regular epoxy and skewers/dowels.

I’ve mounted several tech bindings in the manner you describe, it works. I was just giving perspective. I first used that method around 2008-9?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by singlesline

I grind mine down with a dremel and it only takes a second. But you do have to do the epoxy in two stages which adds a day to the overall time. I use a little digital scale that reads milligrams to accurately mix tiny batches of GFlex so at least I don’t have much waste.


To make things look good, color the top of your wood plugs with a sharpie that matches the top sheet. If you want to go overboard for exposed holes you can even try to add a little pigment to the top coat epoxy.

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somewhere in the last page it was inffered the XXX-er method or briantoloigist method or lou dawson method now MFU method doesnt work and I was smoking too much dope which is absurd ... everyone knows micro dosing is where its at

I wonder where Lou got it from but that doesnt matter eh ?

the JB I used was some silver shit so yeah its more putty than flowing adhesive IME it didnt flow it left voids in the hole, i didnt like putty and I never used it again on a ski, of course I have used it on wood but thasts a different app as i see it

yeah this ^^ color your fix area with a sharpie even if it blue just use a black marker and you won't notice

IME if i don't have to sand epoxy or AQS it leaves a nice smoove finish

If I was building a ski or boat I would definatley weigh my epoxy but I just splooge out 2 tracks of epoxy on a piece of cardboard that look the 1:1 or 2:1 if thats what I'm using mix with a nail and call er good

I use epoxy but that would be too slow/ expensive for someone mounting a bunch of skis in a shop

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

You don’t get voids because you pack it in the holes with a tool.

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So in this regard I understand why it makes more sense to use the putty. I'll give it a try.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Iron Horse

So in this regard I understand why it makes more sense to use the putty. I'll give it a try.

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You could use a syringe for regular epoxy and fill from the bottom but it would lack the filler that the putty has that gives it workability and structure


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Does anyone have a PDF template for the Plum Race 150 (no adjustment track)? I’ve dug around online quite a bit and can’t find one


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PinyonJuniper5

Does anyone have a PDF template for the Plum Race 150 (no adjustment track)? I’ve dug around online quite a bit and can’t find one

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Per SkiMo:

Plum Race 99/120/135/145/15030 x 26.520.5 x 26

Tell me:
-confirm the above hole patterns
-your BSC & BSL after measuring them
-where the rear toe holes are relative to your BSC and pins
-where the forward heel holes are relative to your BSC and boot heel

Check out thread on DIY Binding Templates
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=330792

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