PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

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Originally Posted by jbrine

Are the stamped lines in the sidewalls from smaller companies accurate (moment ON3P, etc)? I don’t use anything printed on the top sheets graphics from the bigs but curious what others have found.


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I think almost all the time they are accurate but only if they are accurate, sometimes the line can be printed in the wrong place so you wana check both skis

If you measure (or at least check) from tail and put your own line on a piece of painters tape with a T-square crisscrossing the lines from both steel edges it will be accurate

sometimes you wana find out probably on-line where others have mounted your model of ski and that would probably be asking a pro about a free-ridey ski

a recovering ski tech/ good carpenter showed me some layout tricks ^^ measuring for boot center would be one another tourist info type tip was slide the pencil down between the edges of skis sitting side by each till it stops then swap the skis, the pencil should stop in the same place but sometimes it was way off

I use a 16p framing nail. Or a screw. Whoever’s handy. Good whack with a hammer does the trick.

Never had a wanderer.

As for drills? Don’t cheap out. Buy a real ski bit. The guaranteed depth and chamfer are worth the price.

Yeah I've never messed around with non ski specific bits. Heard bad stories of tape collars slipping and I like the free chamfer

A piece of wood with a hole thru it so the right amount of bit sticks out, usually a wine bottle cork, if the bit slips you just don't drill deep enough so tighten the drill and do it again

turn a 3/8th bit by hand for the chamfer

ill just leave a little myofs stoke here
https://hosting.photobucket.com/a75b...375c1c8dde.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/a75b...b6c9e9058e.jpg
and let xxx get back to pretending to be a ski mounting authority:rolleyes2

Pretty skis ^^

If someone asks I give an answer and they are free to do wtf they want

just like any other person/ any other post

I have always wondered why you the authority show up here other than to diss someone or something ?

Mounted both of these babies up today, shout out to tgapp for letting me borrow a jig and waxloaf for the sick deal on the la machines!

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Swapped some pivots onto my BGs in place of the sth2s that were there. Ended up being able to reuse 2 of the toe holes. Ended up 7mm behind the line but hoping my more aggressive boots even that out.

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^^Nice

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Originally Posted by bearcub69

use a drill guide to make sure your bit doesn't wander in the small awl/punch hole and it keeps it straight up and down.. you can get one for $10

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This is real good advice. I've done dozens of free hand mounts and never had any real issues but a bunch of the screws always went in crooked. That tends to pull the binding sideways, even if the other 3 holes are perfect and those screws go in and get fully tightened first (I have one dynafit toepiece in particular with a shitty hole that misaligned the boot heel by a mm or so, never cause a problem but I hate knowing that it's there). I had 3 pairs to mount yesterday and decided to swing by the store and get a block. It made life so much easier, especially for Ms Boissal's skis which have a metal layer and required a shitload of pressure to get through. Without the block I bet I'd have leaned the bit a bunch while hamming on it and it would have punched through the softer layers at whatever angle I was pushing. Too bad the block didn't have the correct size for the tap, getting those threads straight while maintaining constant pressure is a hassle.
Re: punch, I get good results using a sharpened nail to punch through the template and make a tiny pilot divot then using a regular punch to deepen that. I don't know how much value you get out of a fancy punch, realistically being 1/10 of a mm off with the punch is gonna make less difference than a crooked hole IMO.

4-beer job with paper templates, first time mounting real skis in 15+ years. Cranking the screws in a sandwich that isn't pure carbon and resin is so nice, I didn't feel like I'd get a spinner if I went a tiny bit too hard:

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The weight though, holy shit real skis + real bindings weigh all the pounds!!

Whoa, you're riding lifts this year?! Where at?

For slumming it inbounds the weight is your friend.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Whoa, you're riding lifts this year?! Where at?

For slumming it inbounds the weight is your friend.

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Alta this season, I needed the peace of mind of a guaranteed parking spot for my first time back in the zoo.
I figured it was time, I may get the little one on skis later this season but mostly life and work are getting way busier. I may get a dozen chances to get out for a full day this season and I have a really hard time getting inspired for shorter tours. Resort seems ideal for the shorter 3-hour windows which I still manage to find. Plus I need to remember how to actually ski, after 15 years of touring I'm sure I've reverted back to being a complete beater despite my delusions of grandeur :D
I'm really looking forward to being on gear that is actually supportive to be honest. I've completely forgotten what it feels like. First time I flexed the new alpine boots on carpet I realized that all the hype about stiffness and progressive flex, even for modern beefier touring boots, is just hype.

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Originally Posted by jbrine

Are the stamped lines in the sidewalls from smaller companies accurate (moment ON3P, etc)? I don’t use anything printed on the top sheets graphics from the bigs but curious what others have found.


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not on DPS

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I'm really looking forward to being on gear that is actually supportive to be honest. I've completely forgotten what it feels like. First time I flexed the new alpine boots on carpet I realized that all the hype about stiffness and progressive flex, even for modern beefier touring boots, is just hype.

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It's gonna be like getting back on the big bike after being on something noodlier than the stumpy for 15 years.

Supervised my 15 year old mounting his own skis.
All good!
I have been using clear roo glue as recommended by the local experienced ski tech but it was dried out so I used some basic wood glue I had.
What glue are you all using? I know not to use epoxy and the glue just keeps the water out.
I have mounted a ton of skis at this point. Ski specific bits have maybe dulled? How many mounts do you get?
Any tips for going straight down into the ski as opposed to at an angle?
Besides getting a jig https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b6b3e75c7d.jpg

Nice!

I'd recommend wearing shoes for when you drop the hammer!

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

Supervised my 15 year old mounting his own skis.
All good!
I have been using clear roo glue as recommended by the local experienced ski tech but it was dried out so I used some basic wood glue I had.
What glue are you all using? I know not to use epoxy and the glue just keeps the water out.
I have mounted a ton of skis at this point. Ski specific bits have maybe dulled? How many mounts do you get?
Any tips for going straight down into the ski as opposed to at an angle?
Besides getting a jig https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b6b3e75c7d.jpg

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Maybe find something like this to keep the drill bit straight and centered - just clamp it down to the ski surface. Some of the ski tool vendors in here sell something similar - tognar/slidewright/binding freedom

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...65c9250e37.jpg


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Originally Posted by jhyatt

Any tips for going straight down into the ski as opposed to at an angle?
Besides getting a jig

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Get a drill guide and clamp it. I used to use this one from binding freedom https://www.bindingfreedom.com/drill...elf-centering/

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Originally Posted by PNWcement

Maybe find something like this to keep the drill bit straight and centered - just clamp it down to the ski surface. Some of the ski tool vendors in here sell something similar - tognar/slidewright/binding freedom

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...65c9250e37.jpg


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That works for ski specific bits? That are stepped?

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

That works for ski specific bits? That are stepped?

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If you mean standard ski drill bits then yes - the key is the size of the shank - 5/16” size drill bit guide - see pic - I’ve got other ski mounting bits besides those pictures and they all work - including the 12ab tap for metal skis…

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5cd9fd09c.jpg


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Originally Posted by PNWcement

If you mean standard ski drill bits then yes - the key is the size of the shank - 5/16 - see pic - I’ve got other ski mounting bits besides those pictures and they all work - including the 12ab tap for metal skis…

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5cd9fd09c.jpg


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Super useful thanks!

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

Super useful thanks!

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NP - go forth and continue mounting some f’ing skis!


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"" What glue are you all using? I know not to use epoxy and the glue just keeps the water out.""

I always use epoxy but epoxy is so good it will stick very well to the screw so the next person trying to remove a screw might strip the head

You don't know how a ski was mounted SO the thing to do is hit ANY screw that won't come out easily on any ski with a soldering iron to break the glue loose, suggest stopping before you melt the plastic shim

if the screw is deep in a binding hole run the shank end of a 1/4 drill bit on the screw head at high speed, the friction will create heat and break loose whatever the glue is

I use and like Roo Glue. I find it much easier/more convenient than epoxy and have never had a failure after dozens of alpine and AT mounts. If I ever found myself mounting a tele binding, I might reach for epoxy…

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Originally Posted by fleaches

Get a drill guide and clamp it. I used to use this one from binding freedom https://www.bindingfreedom.com/drill...elf-centering/

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That Tognar one looks cool. I use this guy. I don’t bother to clamp. I drill with the ski raised above the worktop (e.g., with a ski vice or happy Norwegian stand). I push the bit through the guide to use the tip of the drill bit to center the bit on the dimple, then simply slide the guide block down to force the drill to perpendicular. I “clamp” by simply sandwiching the block to the ski with my left hand (which is why it’s important to have the ski raised).

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Originally Posted by PNWcement

If you mean standard ski drill bits then yes - the key is the size of the shank - 5/16” size drill bit guide - see pic - I’ve got other ski mounting bits besides those pictures and they all work - including the 12ab tap for metal skis…

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5cd9fd09c.jpg


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Ordered along with the center finder widget

Ok, we've talked a ton about how the "you can't use the whole DIN range, you have to be in the middle" is crap. I believe it's crap.

That said, I'm about to put a DIN 4 or 4.5 skier on Attack 14s, which have a range from 4-14. We confident that's a good idea?

i think i would especially if that skier is a goer like my oldest kid was always going hard so it was never any probelm putting him on anything and i seem to remember him going up 30cms as one increment

thanks to spending too much time on this forum i got up the courage to mount my own fucking skis. this is all very new for me and i went the dentist route with jig.

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it was a pair of skis i wouldnt mind screwing up on but still had me a little nervous. all in all id consider it a success! basically learned it all from this thread so thanks everyone. i drilled, i tapped, i countersunk. my learnings:

- wood glue is (probably) fine
- when remounting/plugging holes, using a chisel/file is a really easy way to get things flush (something i found hard to do with just a razor blade as some suggested)

issues i ran into/outstanding questions:

- one heel hole was close to a plug (a few mm); oh well.
- on one ski the boot alignment wasnt straight; i loosened the toe screws, locked in the boot and tightened them again and am letting it dry like that. the boot goes in but its just a mm or two off center; oh well (dont think itll impact RV)
- one toe screw seems like it would keep spinning if i were to keep tightening; should i get some steel wool, take out the screw and with more glue/steel wool rescrew this one?



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Originally Posted by ktoor

thanks to spending too much time on this forum i got up the courage to mount my own fucking skis. this is all very new for me and i went the dentist route with jig.


issues i ran into/outstanding questions:

- one heel hole was close to a plug (a few mm); oh well.
- on one ski the boot alignment wasnt straight; i loosened the toe screws, locked in the boot and tightened them again and am letting it dry like that. the boot goes in but its just a mm or two off center; oh well (dont think itll impact RV)
- one toe screw seems like it would keep spinning if i were to keep tightening; should i get some steel wool, take out the screw and with more glue/steel wool rescrew this one?
l]

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Even with a jig drill the toe of any frame or tech binding so toe piece is being held by one toe screw only, lock the boot into the binding, let the boot or binding find its happy place in the heel piece, drill the rest of the screws and it should drop in the heel piece cuz thats were the heel/ heel piece was when you drilled the rest of the holes

I've always used FG/ epoxy in a spinner ( I duno if wood glue would hold ? ) tighten it down until just before the screw is about to spin and let it cure overnight, if you can crank it down the next day it ain't a spinner anymore

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

Even with a jig drill the toe of any frame or tech binding so toe piece is being held by one toe screw only, lock the boot into the binding, let the boot or binding find its happy place in the heel piece, drill the rest of the screws and it should drop in the heel piece cuz thats were the heel/ heel piece was when you drilled the rest of the holes

I've always used FG/ epoxy in a spinner ( I duno if wood glue would hold ? ) tighten it down until just before the screw is about to spin and let it cure overnight, if you can crank it down the next day it ain't a spinner anymore

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just to clarify, you would mount the heel first, the. just drill one hole for the toe (with the jig), then use a screw without glue/epoxy, mark the other three holes, remove screw and tow piece, drill the rest of the toes and mount it?

not gonne move the toe piece now obviously just for future. hopefully that few mm of llay is fine.

as for the spinner, ill remove it and throw some epoxy in there just to be safw. i will likely be moving these bindings to another ski so was hesitant to use epoxy but for one screw cant be too bad.

thanks for the tips!!


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Originally Posted by ktoor

just to clarify, you would mount the heel first, the. just drill one hole for the toe (with the jig), then use a screw without glue/epoxy, mark the other three holes, remove screw and tow piece, drill the rest of the toes and mount it?

not gonne move the toe piece now obviously just for future. hopefully that few mm of llay is fine.

as for the spinner, ill remove it and throw some epoxy in there just to be safw. i will likely be moving these bindings to another ski so was hesitant to use epoxy but for one screw cant be too bad.

thanks for the tips!!


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yeah ^^ so back in the day I asked ski bud who owned the BC ski store how to mount a frame or tech and he said mount the heel piece dead center, mount the toe by 1 screw and let the toe find its happy place, it was a eureka moment for me

If you use epoxy and the screw won't let go or for ANY screw that won't let go just hit that screw with some heat from a soldering iron BEFORE you strip the head and it will let go.

If the screw is insdie a binding run a 1/4 "drill bit shank first on the screw at high speed and the heat of friction on the screw wiil do same

I hope you got that answer on copy paste somewhere, haha. I started using that method and I like it. When you just rely on your center line and a paper template aligned to that center line, then holes center punched through that paper template, you introduce a lot of opportunities for error, and errors of rotation at the toe piece are magnified at the heel.

To flesh out the xxx method a little further... I use a paper template to mark the heels and one toe hole. Drill those holes, install the heel. I put a piece of painters tape under where the other three holes will be made. Install the toe with the one screw, put a boot in it, lower onto the heel pins. Now the toe is perfectly aligned with the heel. Tighten your one screw a little bit. Check alignment again. Using a pen with a small tip, held vertically, scribe a circle inside of each of the other three binding holes. Take the toe off, make a dot in the center of each of the three circles you just drew. Use a center punch to dimple each dot through the painters tape. Remove tape and drill. Hasn't failed me yet, thanks xxx'er.

you know those studies about 5 consecutive days of the same Blues Clues episode being good for kids' brains? XXX-er's repeated anecdotes are the adult version of that for me. And I also use his mounting method.

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Originally Posted by ktoor

...
- one heel hole was close to a plug (a few mm); oh well.
...

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One thing you might want to think about on a mount like that is putting the heel piece further back and running it in the front of the adjustment range. Would be nice to get a little more breathing room from the old holes. I dunno exactly how to do it with a jig, but probably set it at BSL+10mm and then use a mount line -5mm from the line you want.

For the drill block discussion, I'm not convinced a perfectly perpendicular hole is super important for non-insert mounts. With a paper template, the holes aren't usually in *exactly* the right spot anyway and the screw is going to compensate with a bit of angle. Despite the length of this thread, it's just wood screws in wood. Which I'm sure someone has already said (see length of thread). Basically I think you and the kid have done a solid job and your freehand is good enough for jazz. But let us know if you notice a difference with the guide.

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Originally Posted by EWG

Ok, we've talked a ton about how the "you can't use the whole DIN range, you have to be in the middle" is crap. I believe it's crap.

That said, I'm about to put a DIN 4 or 4.5 skier on Attack 14s, which have a range from 4-14. We confident that's a good idea?

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it is crap.

The spring is linear (I've never heard of an alpine binding with progressive springs, as is used in for instance mountain biking), meaning that is no more accurate in the middle than at the ends. So if it is accurate - aka releases at the value it is supposed to in the middle - it will be consistent throughout. The preload does not alter the curve / progressivity of the spring, it just adjusts the break away threshold aka the initial force required to have the spring move. The curve will be linear aka a straight line regardless.

Yeah, I know that the marketing blurb tells you to splurge on a higher din binding for "safety", but the ONLY difference between a Pivot 12 og 14 or 15 and 18 is the spring. So unless you need the lower/higher end, having a heavier spring yields no performance benefit at all outside of saving/gaining a few grams.

take this for what is worth - it is an opinion. I do not claim to know everything, so there might be bindings out there that works differently. Pivots do not though.

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Originally Posted by caulfield

you know those studies about 5 consecutive days of the same Blues Clues episode being good for kids' brains? XXX-er's repeated anecdotes are the adult version of that for me. And I also use his mounting method.

One thing you might want to think about on a mount like that is putting the heel piece further back and running it in the front of the adjustment range. Would be nice to get a little more breathing room from the old holes. I dunno exactly how to do it with a jig, but probably set it at BSL+10mm and then use a mount line -5mm from the line you want.

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honestly this was just pure laziness. i lined it all up and couldnt see the plugs in the guide holes. instead of marking and checking how close just said screw it and drilled.

i was considering remounting the heel piece but thought since its the inside heel screw (closer to boot center) and im at the short end of the adjustment range, forces on that screw shouldnt be THAT high. would have to be an odd angle to have enough force to compromise that screws bite? but maybe im out to lunch.


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Originally Posted by caulfield

you know those studies about 5 consecutive days of the same Blues Clues episode being good for kids' brains? XXX-er's repeated anecdotes are the adult version of that for me. And I also use his mounting method.



One thing you might want to think about on a mount like that is putting the heel piece further back and running it in the front of the adjustment range. Would be nice to get a little more breathing room from the old holes. I dunno exactly how to do it with a jig, but probably set it at BSL+10mm and then use a mount line -5mm from the line you want.

For the drill block discussion, I'm not convinced a perfectly perpendicular hole is super important for non-insert mounts. With a paper template, the holes aren't usually in *exactly* the right spot anyway and the screw is going to compensate with a bit of angle. Despite the length of this thread, it's just wood screws in wood. Which I'm sure someone has already said (see length of thread). Basically I think you and the kid have done a solid job and your freehand is good enough for jazz. But let us know if you notice a difference with the guide.

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you know how many times I have repeated these tips ?

just < 32459 sure i could suggest use the fucking search function but I have found it really doesnt work that well so I pedantically post the same tips over and over and i got now job so i got time, I'm glad the tips work for you the tech or frame mount was really courtesty of ski bud Brian AKA the Briantologist

I agree the wood screw hole in wood doesnt have to be super perpendicular altho I DO think you want it very perpendicular if you re doing inserts which I never do,

I also agree the whole thread is in fact just good layout to put screws in wood in the right place, IME the wine bottle cork for a drill guage seems to make the holes more perpendicular if you can grab a turning drill bit with your fingers as opposed to just holding a drill by the handle

I am pretty sure I posted the use of heat to break loose a screw twice yesturday

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Originally Posted by waveshello

I hope you got that answer on copy paste somewhere, haha. I started using that method and I like it. When you just rely on your center line and a paper template aligned to that center line, then holes center punched through that paper template, you introduce a lot of opportunities for error, and errors of rotation at the toe piece are magnified at the heel.

To flesh out the xxx method a little further... I use a paper template to mark the heels and one toe hole. Drill those holes, install the heel. I put a piece of painters tape under where the other three holes will be made. Install the toe with the one screw, put a boot in it, lower onto the heel pins. Now the toe is perfectly aligned with the heel. Tighten your one screw a little bit. Check alignment again. Using a pen with a small tip, held vertically, scribe a circle inside of each of the other three binding holes. Take the toe off, make a dot in the center of each of the three circles you just drew. Use a center punch to dimple each dot through the painters tape. Remove tape and drill. Hasn't failed me yet, thanks xxx'er.

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yeah thats ^^ pretty much exactly how I do it ^^ I have drilled at least one other hole to lock the binding with the boot in the binding but I like using the binding to draw circles in the exact center of the binding holes, center punch the the exact middle with a 4" DW screw, drill a small pilot hole with the smallest drill I havent broken yet, drill the rest with a 5/16ths and wine cork for a drillstop

never mind a flacid paper template in this last instance Ktoor used a shinny plum jig and it was still off, in any case a jig or template is still great for at least locating the whole thing you are trying to mount on the ski

I find that the guide block helps keep the bit from wandering, too. I used to freehand drill, but I’ve been a guideblock convert since the first time I used one.