PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

Whoah:

https://whitemountainski.co/products...r-mounting-jig

As much as I appreciate the utility of the competing JigaRex (and the previously available skimo race plates for Plum, ATK/Hagan, and Dynafit were built directly from bindings and plates that I shipped to the JigaRex), the plate quick-attachment system is so sloppy that the plates need to be duct-taped onto the frame, the frame's width adjustment dial is so loose that the frame needs to be secured to the ski with four large spring clamps, the boot toe interface is way too flexible, the tech-toe pincers are too flexy, and the way in which the frame rests directly on the topskin just doesn't work with some skis (although I've lucked out so far with the few skis I've used it for mounting, sometimes just barely).

By contrast, although some specialty skimo race binding jigs are solid alu blocks, most jigs start with what sure looks like a generic frame to which each brand's plate is press-fit.
And my Plum jig came with swappable plates. For I'm not away of any compatible plates for other bindings.

So, hmm, why not start with that same generic frame and then allow an interchangeable method for each brand's plate?
That's exactly what this new jig appears to be!

I'm surprised at the lack of publicity, at least so far.
And plates are available -- so far -- only for three tele bindings, Trab TR1, and what appears to be the entire Dynafit line although that requires four toe plates and six heel plates (dropping to three and five if you don't bother with the absurdly obscure P49).

BTW, even if you already have the OEM jig, sometimes such a universal frame jig is helpful for a partial remount (i.e., toe or heel, not both) since you can snap in only the plate you need, then have the jig frame straddle the binding unit that you keep in place.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

I'm surprised at the lack of publicity, at least so far.

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I somehow bumped into this company, while I was in the process of acquiring my pivot jig. Pretty sure Romacker GmbH ("roXbo") are Rossi/Look new style OEM jig supplier, maybe others too. I remember texting my buddy about it and discussing they need to add more plates. Searched my history - December 2020. So this has been around for at least four years. I guess if they add plates for pivot, shift, duke pt, atks and such, it can get some traction.

we use that at the shop I work at for Dynafit mounts

Ah, interesting -- I had noticed from another website that they won some sort of award back in 2020.
And I learned from White Mtn Ski Co just now that indeed that is how Dynafit supplies its jigs.
Expanding this into the DIY market with plates for other binding lines would be huge!

If a Pivot plate became available, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Having a few of these Jigs in my shop that has very limited space, I would be so psyched if I could just order plates individually.

I would still mount a tech boot by 1 toe screw to let the boot find its happy place

My kid’s feet grew enough that he needed the next size up for boots for this season. The new boots are just outside of the adjustment range of the pivots he has on his comp mogul skis.

What’s the preferred way to remount the heel piece a cm back from the existing mount? Just measure back from each of the current holes and drill?

Print a template measure a center line drill

many good center tools and prints available

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Originally Posted by Mailman

My kid’s feet grew enough that he needed the next size up for boots for this season. The new boots are just outside of the adjustment range of the pivots he has on his comp mogul skis.

What’s the preferred way to remount the heel piece a cm back from the existing mount? Just measure back from each of the current holes and drill?

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What is the bsl of old boots vs new?

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Originally Posted by byates[emoji637

;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]]Print a template measure a center line drill

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Thanks. I have the template I used to mount them so can use that.

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Originally Posted by ~mikey b;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji640]]many good center tools and prints available

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Yeah, for sure. The marking gauge I use for centering and the optical punch are the best two tool investments I’ve made for mounting skis.

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Pivot party tonight. 3 mounts. Easy peasy. OG Lpro's like drilling into an I-beam, 4frnt like drilling into soft kindling. Kinda frightening. But hey https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...925b2a921a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...65b9ee3ad3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1f471ba7cc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...433e5ff4bf.jpg

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Can’t recall where I picked up my wide look pivot jig but it’s been great to have. I’ve had good luck with the jigarex for all else….

I'd mount at 10.5 for the 311 but cheat the heel a few mm closer to center (3mm maybe). And do some test mounts to make sure the boot center, forward pressure, and adjustment all line up how you want. Adjust from there and mount

I'd put the toe in the right place for whatever boot you're going to use more often

So it sounds like Sylvan has 2 boots with different BSL's he would like to accomadate with the same binding mount, instead of worrying where the BC is just do it IMO

IME playing with demo bindings Boot center has to be moved quite a bit for anything i could feel especialy on a powski but i'm just an incensitive bastard

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

So it sounds like Sylvan has 2 boots with different BSL's he would like to accomadate with the same binding mount, instead of worrying where the BC is just do it IMO

IME playing with demo bindings Boot center has to be moved quite a bit for anything i could feel especialy on a powski but i'm just an incensitive bastard

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I would imagine the different feel of the softer boot would be WAY more noticeable than a 3mm difference in BC.

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Originally Posted by ripvanwinter

I would imagine the different feel of the softer boot would be WAY more noticeable than a 3mm difference in BC.

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3MM is fack all, so IME the boot center thing is not so noticable in real life.

Using a demo binding on the soft/ turny DPS wailer it took a +2 cm BC change before I felt a difference in pow on back to back runs, I even tried all the way to +6 which actualy skied OK/ tips didnt dive but the ski felt uneven landing off small dips, I moved the binding around and my happy spot was +4 which IMO discounts the whole idea of just mounting it back and the ski felt like poo at -2, like a planing hull that could not get on plane

A buddy ( good skier) knocked a tech toe off his ski at low tide, he found it 6 months later so I offer to do a remount but the ski was delamed/ damaged at the screw area so I had to inject the toe area with slowset and drill/ remount 1 cm forward to find good wood, SO the toe was mismatched by 1 cm and the heel had enough adj. to not need moving

so i asked bro if he wanted the binding on the other ski moved, Ski bro said don't bother, later on I asked if he could tell the difference between mismatched mounts and he said NO he couldn't tell

Yeah thats ^^ what everyone sez to which i ask so you did back to back testing in same conditions, on the same gear, skiing the same run ...

I think this is why they use blind testing

in any case we got a prince-n-pea situation here

I maintain you won't tell the difference but you claim you can tell very minute difference's,

if so I duno why you are asking, you should be buying more skis more bindings more boots

that you set up all to minute tolerences

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

I maintain you won't tell the difference but you claim you can tell very minute difference's,

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You keep regurgitating your one data point about your buddy’s one remounted ski…..Marcel Hirscher can feel the difference between different colours of boot plastics! so there is that.
Skier skill and snow conditions are definitely factors in sensitivity to changes in mount point.

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Originally Posted by gwat

You keep regurgitating your one data point about your buddy’s one remounted ski…...

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for years

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Originally Posted by gwat

You keep regurgitating your one data point about your buddy’s one remounted ski…..Marcel Hirscher can feel the difference between different colours of boot plastics! so there is that.
Skier skill and snow conditions are definitely factors in sensitivity to changes in mount point.

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well obviously red would be faster

I'm pretty sure nobody here skis like Marcel Hirscher

but I would test on the same snow/ same runs/ same day back to back to rule out the snow

or just stand there with your paats on the ground suggesting ... move it back man and nobody is gona argue

Which tools have people found success using as an intermediary step between marking holes with an awl and drilling with a full size bit? I usually go straight from awl to drill, but always feels like I'm risking the bit wandering a bit when I apply pressure. Slidewright recommends a punch but I could also see some potential wandering happening upon the first hit. Was considering opening up the holes a little with a small drill bit before going to the full size stepped bit. I haven't ever had issues mounting thus far but always like to find little ways to increase confidence in the process each time I do it

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Which tools have people found success using as an intermediary step between marking holes with an awl and drilling with a full size bit? I usually go straight from awl to drill, but always feels like I'm risking the bit wandering a bit when I apply pressure. Slidewright recommends a punch but I could also see some potential wandering happening upon the first hit. Was considering opening up the holes a little with a small drill bit before going to the full size stepped bit. I haven't ever had issues mounting thus far but always like to find little ways to increase confidence in the process each time I do it

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I use a punch. I'm not perfect with it (as you note, wander on the first hit can happen), but IME that's only an issue when I worry about it. If I just send it on the first hammer strike, I usually end up with a good dimple and the normal drill bit goes where I want it to.

I really do hope I didn't just screw myself on the pair of skis I need to mount in the nearish future.

Punch. Nice and deep one. If my first punch isn't perfect, I'll hit it a few more times with the punch tilted over a bit to nudge it deeper in the right direction.
IMO no need to bother with a smaller pre-drill. A ~4mm bit is small enough that it centers plenty well on a deep punch.

Ok I'll try out a punch. FYI this time around I had a new awl that was super sharp and it made it really easy to get the initial marks smack in the center. In the past I've always encountered slight wander with a duller tool and had to adjust in the way listed above, but this was the cleanest I've encountered so far. Obvious, of course, but made a bigger difference than I was expecting

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Ok I'll try out a punch. FYI this time around I had a new awl that was super sharp and it made it really easy to get the initial marks smack in the center. In the past I've always encountered slight wander with a duller tool and had to adjust in the way listed above, but this was the cleanest I've encountered so far. Obvious, of course, but made a bigger difference than I was expecting

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Awl then punch might be a good approach if you want to be extra anal about it. The sharp awl is nice for accuracy but the problem is it leaves a very skinny/steep hole. The punch leaves a larger dimple that has approximately the same lead angle as the drill bit, so the bit plays nicely with it. I can see how the bit may wander more easily with the awl alone.

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Which tools have people found success using as an intermediary step between marking holes with an awl and drilling with a full size bit? I usually go straight from awl to drill, but always feels like I'm risking the bit wandering a bit when I apply pressure. Slidewright recommends a punch but I could also see some potential wandering happening upon the first hit. Was considering opening up the holes a little with a small drill bit before going to the full size stepped bit. I haven't ever had issues mounting thus far but always like to find little ways to increase confidence in the process each time I do it

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I give a sharp awl a good smack with a hammer then check accuracy for about the fifth time. If all good then go right to the drill with wintersteiger bits. It's been working out ok this way for a few years.

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Originally Posted by Beder

I give a sharp awl a good smack with a hammer then check accuracy for about the fifth time. If all good then go right to the drill with wintersteiger bits. It's been working out ok this way for a few years.

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Works fine on my 3.5 bit but the 4.1 I have doesn’t have as sharp a tip on it so it struggles to lock into a hole that small

Be as accurate as you can be with a punch or awl. Make sure your bits are SHARP. Sharp bits require less down pressure and will walk off less. If you sharpen your own bits make sure you are even on the initial cutting faces of the bit. Uneven bit faces can cause the bit to walk. If I don't like the way something looks before I drill I put on a new bit. Don't cheap out with bits.

use a drill guide to make sure your bit doesn't wander in the small awl/punch hole and it keeps it straight up and down.. you can get one for $10

I don’t use an awl, just a center punch, but then i take either a transfer punch or another drill bit, and set it in the dimple with the drill guide over the bit. Then place a clamp or two on the guide, remove the bit, then drill using the guide. It seems easier than lining up the whole drill with the guide on it. I’ve only done 5 ish or so mounts, but have layes out and drilled more holes than I can count, and this seems to be the most fuck up proof crazy idea I’ve had so far. Also after drilling, I’ll use a countersink by hand to clean the edges, and use the guide for the tap. Even if it doesn’t need to be tapped, I’ll do a thread or two worth. Makes it so the screws always start straight. I guess if you had a hole a bit off and needed to angle the screw it would make it a bitch.

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Which tools have people found success using as an intermediary step between marking holes with an awl and drilling with a full size bit? I usually go straight from awl to drill, but always feels like I'm risking the bit wandering a bit when I apply pressure. Slidewright recommends a punch but I could also see some potential wandering happening upon the first hit. Was considering opening up the holes a little with a small drill bit before going to the full size stepped bit. I haven't ever had issues mounting thus far but always like to find little ways to increase confidence in the process each time I do it

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I use a 4" DW screw for the punch cuz they are very hard/ sharp and I got a whole bag for a couple bucks, drilling a pilot hole with the smallest bit in your set that you havent broken yet is a VERY good idea IME

for a countersink on the holes I just rotate a 3/8 ths bit in the hole to give it some chamfer

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7a671c747a.jpg

Just finished these up. Friendly reminder to not mount off the printed line on the topsheet and instead do a straight pull from the tail. One ski was off by a couple mm


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Are the stamped lines in the sidewalls from smaller companies accurate (moment ON3P, etc)? I don’t use anything printed on the top sheets graphics from the bigs but curious what others have found.


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Originally Posted by jbrine

Are the stamped lines in the sidewalls from smaller companies accurate (moment ON3P, etc)? I don’t use anything printed on the top sheets graphics from the bigs but curious what others have found.


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I’ve found them to be accurate on Moment and Praxis I’ve mounted. But even if going off a dimple for the first ski I still will measure from the tail to the exact same spot for the other ski


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Which tools have people found success using as an intermediary step between marking holes with an awl and drilling with a full size bit? I usually go straight from awl to drill, but always feels like I'm risking the bit wandering a bit when I apply pressure. Slidewright recommends a punch but I could also see some potential wandering happening upon the first hit. Was considering opening up the holes a little with a small drill bit before going to the full size stepped bit. I haven't ever had issues mounting thus far but always like to find little ways to increase confidence in the process each time I do it

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I highly recommend an optical punch. It completely eliminates the possibility of punching even a fraction of a mm off from where you intend to punch. Mine came with two punches - I use the sharper one and give it two good hits. That leaves a big enough indentation in the ski for the bit to seat into and not wander.

For the $30 or whatever I paid for it on Amazon, it’s an absolutely fantastic tool.