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The Bronson and the new Stumpjumper are the only bikes I can think of off the top of my head that don't accommodate any sort of shift cable routing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
I'm sure others will go that direction, and they can preemptively fuck right off too.
I would simply never buy the 4000 dollar bicycle frame from a huge mass manufacturer anyways so as to not have this problem.
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And the new Hightower. And I think the new Epic. But yeah, SC and SpeshQuote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
How much weight does one internal tube weigh? There’s still two tubes there for dropper and brake!
If they really wanted to save weight, they would ditch the storage compartment. I’m yelling at clouds. We know they only did it because SRAM and marketing.
I have one bike that came all axs. The shifting adjustment annoys me, but I'll get used to it. Just me being old and grumpy not being able to micro adjust on the fly...and the battery. But I will say the axs dropper is the balz. I dig that. It just works. And man I was probably the biggest complainer of the reverb several years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by g_man80
It’s not the weight savings. It was one last thing to buy, manage, QC, etc… at the expense of loosing a handful of frame only sales….
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Exactly! That’s why SC saying it’s for the weight savings is laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
Weight is an easy excuse, but I bet it is a combo of weight and cost savings in manufacturing.
All this bitching about cable routing seems silly when both Specialized (in alloy) and Santa Cruz are offering frame only options that allow for cable routing. How many Bronson C frame only sales do you think SC is going to make? 15? 50? 100? All of that is negligible in the grand scheme of their business... even so it is nice to see they at least listened to the complainers.
What do you mean by not being able to micro adjust on the fly? It's pretty easy to do, press and hold the little round AXS button on the controller, toggle up or down on the controller to change the micro. If it's paired with a newer Garmin, it'll even bring up a popup screen that tells you exactly which micro value you went to on the range of 1-14, so you can keep it straight which way you went.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
My understanding is that internal tubing in carbon frames actually poses a bit of an engineering challenge. I think it's hard to mold tubes into carbon while also keeping the frame strong. This is according to brands other than SC / spec.Quote:
Originally Posted by g_man80
My wife's stumpy evo has internal tubes, but they're not carbon - it's just a plastic sleeve that runs through the frame and is glued into the ports in the frame. Seems like a pretty easy / cheap / light option that works well.
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also way easier from an assembly perspective and less parts (cables, housing, end caps).
IME no complaints owning a SC with VPP except trying to change that dropper cable on my bullit, the second time I figured out the outer and inner cable with end WILL fit thru the hole in the frame going at it from the battery side, I had done some major wanking around the first time
You can do that pedaling? I've never tried. Admittedly, I haven't played with this axs stuff enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andeh
Yeah, works fine while pedaling. Not as easy as fiddling with a barrel adjuster, but workable.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
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Yep, no problem on fire roads, fine on smooth singletrack, probably a bad idea on techy climbs. I've been messing with it a bit recently because I swapped cassettes between my ebike & normal bike to spread the wear out, and they're just a *tiny* bit different, so had to move the microadjust a click or 2 inboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Wild. I set my new $40 Deore derailleur and $20 Deore shifter and turn the barrel adjuster two clicks after about 10 miles. Then I never touch it again for 1000+Quote:
Originally Posted by Andeh
I've got a transmission drivetrain on the new bike I've been riding. It shifts nice under load, and it looks clean without cables. But by every other metric, it kinda sucks. It's heavy, it's expensive, it shifts really slowly, it's fidgety to set up and if it needs tweaking, it's hard to do on the trail. Not to mention it needs to be charged, which is annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon3
Of all the bike related things I have complained about over the years, shift quality isn't really one of them. All this new electronic crap solves a problem that doesn't exist.
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Well shit, I'll have to try it out. Thanks.
And yeah, I would not mind going back to cables, I just don't see it happening moving forward. The Bronson which is my primary bike is all cables and the Blur is all axs.
Preach. I've got Shimano 12 speed set ups on my hardtail and full suspensions and they just work everytime. After the initial set up, there's no need to touch anything. No batteries or apps or cell phone needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon3
You'll never convince me to bother with AXS.
Love my t-type AXS. It’s absolutely wonderful.
That said, I don’t like the electronic droppers…go figure.
The new Fox Neo Live Valve looks pretty sweet and like it could have a big effect on kinematics and bike design in the future.
I could get along with two batteries just fine. More then that feels like a bit much
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I said the same thing. Then I'm in the market for a new ride and this "ideal" bike shows up at 35% off and here I amQuote:
Originally Posted by HankScorpio
Thats how its always gone for me ^^ I buy the bike as the product guy spec'ed it and i don't change much if anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Adding 10%-20% to the cost of a bike to get smoother shifting doesn’t work for me. But I’m also going through 2-4 RDs a year and might just quit biking if each new mech cost >$500
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Any chance you can define "really slowly?" I haven't ridden that yet and I'm assuming it waits for ramps that are, what, 120 degrees apart? Plus another ~120 to rotate that point to the top? Obviously ratio dependant from there, but I'm really curious where delay becomes noticable.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Fidgety to set up? I would say it's just different.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
It does suck you can't adjust the shifting on the go like you can with a barrel. In theory, it should need that less, though.
It is slower shifting, but I don't really notice it in practice, not to the point that it affects my ride.
My thumb certainly likes hitting the button instead of pushing a shifter... getting older sucks.
I've had a few situations where I needed to grab 2-3 gears really quickly in order to get speed for a jump. On every other drivetrain, that's a non-issue. With transmission, by the time the thing gets around to shifting, I'm at the jump and not going fast enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
And I kinda hate the shifter pod / buttons. Somehow, despite the fact that they can put the buttons literally anywhere, sram has still managed to make 3 different shifters all feel weirdly un-ergonomic. I also hate that there's no tactile feedback of when I hit my easiest gear.
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I'm not sure how many degrees apart it is, but it will only shift when the chain is aligned with the ramps on the cassette. For a single shift, this is essentially a non-issue. But if you're trying to hammer through a few gears quickly, it's noticeably slow. If you thumb the button 3 times, it'll shift, wait for the next ramp, shift, wait for the next ramp, and then do the final shift. Whereas a mechanical drivetrain would just kinda chunk it's way through the whole shift at once, which is less smooth but much faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
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^thats interesting. Didn't realize the tranny did that. One good thing about axs (non tranny) is being able to speed shift thru the gears. I forget their term for it, but it does fly (sometimes too many or too fast until you get used to it) thru the cassette.
Thanks, that helps a lot. Does "essentially a non-issue" mean you don't notice the delay between 2nd and 1st, or just not very often? Never to the point of being a problem, I assume?Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
You obviously asked toast, and I had not really thought about the issue he mentioned with jumps. I am not typically changing gears when in a jump line, but could see how what he is saying could be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
I don't notice the slower shifting because you don't have to soft pedal with the transmission. The harder you pedal through the shifts, the better it seems to shift. So I just rapid fire the button and keep pedaling. After pressing the buttons, I don't think about the shift at all and my brain focuses on the next part of the trail.
My favorite part is how quickly I can press the shift buttons without changing my grip or wrist position. When I made the switch, it changed when and how I change gears. I now purposely shift later coming into inclines, allowing me to get an extra pedal or two in the harder gear and keep more momentum.
You can then break the incline down into more sections....so instead of dropping three gears anticipating a climb...drop a gear, pedal, another, pedal and then my final gear when my momentum is gone and I am settling into the climb.
To what toast is saying....I guess in thinking more about it...transmission definitely is better when you want to go up the cassette for climbs versus coming down to get into a harder gear. That would be the trade-off when it comes to shifting speed. That said...it seems easier for derailers to move the chain down the cassette to smaller gears versus stretching for bigger gears.
I put a lot of time on a Pinion C1.12 (an actual transmission :fm: ) and on that system the careful downshifting is kind of an irritating skill to have to acquire.
But with that done I notice that toast's situation is actually more critical: a C1.12 will upshift a gear or three at a full sprint, unless you need to cross 5th or 9th. Which can be pretty likely if you need to clear a jump that's preceded by a climb and a short descent. Or really any significant increase in downslope. Works great on trails that stay fast enough to live in 9-12, but I only have one of those closeby.
NX shifter for e-bike only allows me to shift 1 gear at a time
it requires anticipppp ation
SRAM protecting me from myself ,
For single shifts (i.e. 2nd to 1st) it's maybe *slightly* slower than other drivetrains, but like gretch said, it shifts really well under load so it kinda doesn't matter. If the shift isn't 100% completed when you hit the steep little punch that you're shifting for, you just kinda stay on the power and everything is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
It's really just multiple shifts at once where the slow speed is noticeable. It's noticeable both for upshifting and downshifting, but I find it to be more problematic for upshifting. On a regular drivetrain, I can upshift 3 gears in one pedal stroke (with maybe some minor clunking). With the transmission, I need 2 or 3 pedal strokes to do that same shift. It's smooth, but slow. I used pedaling into a jump as the example, but it's also annoying on techy trails where getting in pedal strokes can be hard (but you still want to be in the right gear so you can throw half a pedal stroke out of a corner or whatever).
It's kind of the opposite of the pinion. With the pinion, I struggled a lot with the inability to shift under load. So I'd go into a climb with the expectation of being able to click down a gear at a time as I ran out of momentum or the climb got steeper, but that's tricky with the pinion because the pedals are loaded and it doesn't want to shift. But on the descents, if I need to upshift a few gears for a jump that's coming, I can just do it in the corner before when I'm not pedaling.
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Yeah, AXS is much faster than tranny. I didn't notice any issues at all with the speed of shifts with AXS. I did notice the weak clutch on the derailleur though. Dropped more chains with AXS than I have with any other drivetrain since the invention of the clutched derailleur.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
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And if your not getting the benefit of shifting under load and late shifts during climbs....it just doesn't seem like the benefit is there. I stayed with non-AXS stuff until t-type came out because I just couldn't see the benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Kind of like live valve IMHO. The last generation just wasn't there yet unless you were a racer.
2 or 3 revolutions seems crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
I guess on the Pinion the irritating cases stand out and I forget about the shifts that just work. Like pedals stopped. And on the up I just mash one stroke and shift when the pedal hits bottom dead center. That works fine for downshifting any number of gears because the pawls for the intermediate ones generally don't catch, so you just need a quick lightening of the load to get out of the gear you were in.
But on descents I might coast through something or for whatever reason lose track of what gear I'm in, and then if I need to cross the dreaded 4/5 or 8/9 upshifts (almost guaranteed if I need too many) it can be a pain when there's only time for 2 or 3 revolutions. (I'm still working on it.)
The Pinion has kind of a wicked learning environment, too: since you can shift up under full load on most of the gears, having the 4/5 and 8/9 hang up under load like the downshifts (slightly worse, I think, but it's close) can turn those shifts into surprises unless you treat upshifts the same as downshifts (or really keep track of what gear you're in). It'd be easier to live with if it was a 6x2 instead of a 4x3, but that's one gearset heavier, too.
Unsure if it’s real, but I swear the latest firmware update on t-type made the shifting more responsive.
Toast have you tried setting it so it shifts 3 gears at once when you hold the button down? I only have this to go easier, but you can set up for both in the app settings.
I do miss the tactile feel at the end of the cassette now that you mention it.
Firmware and apps for your shifter….
Just need to add a haptic buzz at either end of the cassette.
Tune it right and it should feel real and be noticeable while riding.
Then they can release another shifter pod and up the price $20 for force feedback
I don't think that would change anything though? The issue isn't how fast the shifter can tell the derailleur to shift, the issue is how fast the derailleur will actually do those shifts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
I don't mind tapping the shifter 3 times. That's the same as any sram mechanical shifter.
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I got a baby slug somehow wedged in my chainguide today. The little fucker basically got pureed covering the chainguide, the frame behind the chainring, parts of the chainring, my right shoe, and part of the rear triangle. I had to actually wash my bike with soap to get that shit off.
I thought I was a good rider, and went up to ride Sea to Sky area recently, and now my ego hurts. /rant