Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

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Originally Posted by fool

Kim, fyi, your text color failed.







While I *could* have different pow sticks for Palisades and Utah/Japan, I probably shouldn’t. :biggrin:

Thanks, all. I think you might be right that the FR120ST is the the better option. To be clear, the FR120 is the FR120 Swallowtail, right? (I want to make sure there's not a ski that Marshal stopped making). And I’d want the FR version for most pow friendly and the R to handle the hardpack a little better, to oversimplify, correct? I’ve been reading the thread thinking mostly about the FR110. My hunch is a 187cm FR120ST FR might be the best fit.

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I'm currently waiting out a wind closure in mammoth after riding some 187 fr120st's all morning. I sold the fr110 after 1 day in knee deep powder. Today on the 120 i was limited to lower mountain lifts with 4-6" of fresh over a firm base. I must say that i much prefer the 120 in slightly too little snow than the 110 in too much snow. Let's be clear: these skis are very, very similar. But for me the 120 is what i wanted. They allow you to carry more speed through low angle pow and access more goods. Obviously they are incrementally better in deeper pow. But I don't feel i gave up much, if anything, on soft groomers, bumps or in trees. They are still telepathically quick in tight spots and i found myself mobbing into patches of trees without knowing what was on the other side. I could probably do this on 110's, but like i said i just carried more speed and could easily access more terrain due to the extra float of the 120. I have not heard back from marshal but i asked him if the 120's ended up stiffer than the 110. They hand flex and feel slightly burlier to me than the 110's. Super stoked

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Originally Posted by chewski

I'm currently waiting out a wind closure in mammoth after riding some 187 fr120st's all morning. I sold the fr110 after 1 day in knee deep powder. Today on the 120 i was limited to lower mountain lifts with 4-6" of fresh over a firm base. I must say that i much prefer the 120 in slightly too little snow than the 110 in too much snow. Let's be clear: these skis are very, very similar. But for me the 120 is what i wanted. They allow you to carry more speed through low angle pow and access more goods. Obviously they are incrementally better in deeper pow. But I don't feel i gave up much, if anything, on soft groomers, bumps or in trees. They are still telepathically quick in tight spots and i found myself mobbing into patches of trees without knowing what was on the other side. I could probably do this on 110's, but like i said i just carried more speed and could easily access more terrain due to the extra float of the 120. I have not heard back from marshal but i asked him if the 120's ended up stiffer than the 110. They hand flex and feel slightly burlier to me than the 110's. Super stoked

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Hell yeah. Glad the step up in width worked out for you


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Originally Posted by chewski

I'm currently waiting out a wind closure in mammoth after riding some 187 fr120st's all morning. I sold the fr110 after 1 day in knee deep powder. Today on the 120 i was limited to lower mountain lifts with 4-6" of fresh over a firm base. I must say that i much prefer the 120 in slightly too little snow than the 110 in too much snow. Let's be clear: these skis are very, very similar. But for me the 120 is what i wanted. They allow you to carry more speed through low angle pow and access more goods. Obviously they are incrementally better in deeper pow. But I don't feel i gave up much, if anything, on soft groomers, bumps or in trees. They are still telepathically quick in tight spots and i found myself mobbing into patches of trees without knowing what was on the other side. I could probably do this on 110's, but like i said i just carried more speed and could easily access more terrain due to the extra float of the 120. I have not heard back from marshal but i asked him if the 120's ended up stiffer than the 110. They hand flex and feel slightly burlier to me than the 110's. Super stoked

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Ahoy! The core profile and materials are the exact same, but the skis is a little wider, so they would test ~5% stiffer. Very perceptive indeed, generally 10% changes are viewed as "one step" of stiffness in ski testing as less than that is within manufacturing tolerances for milling the core and materials.

There is a thread dedicated to the swallowtails

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Originally Posted by fool

Considering the FR110 as my resort pow ski and biggest ski in my quiver. Copied a few quotes above that seem to call out what resonates with me in a ski.

Me: advanced-expert, 6’2”, 180#, ski primarily Palisades with occasional trips to Utah/CO, possibly a Japan trip next year. Was on tele for 10+ years and am now back on Alpine. Not sure I’ve skied a ski with as much reverse camber as FR110 (but maybe RPs?).

Current quiver: 191 Nordica Enforcer 104 Frees (DD), 180cm HL R87 (low tide), BD Helio 104 (touring), BD Helio 88 (touring)
Previously skied: 112 RPs, 112RPCs, Wailer 99 (tele for all of them)

Love the Enforcer as my DD - manages all conditions well (seem similar-ish to FL105s?). After a few days of powder in Utah though I was thinking a bigger ski with more float and quicker pivot in tight trees would be fun. Though a big 120+ underfoot ski would be money, it’s realistically not in my plans (unless I can figure out a way to rationalize it :biggrin:).

Would the 110FR be pretty good for Japan? Would it crush West Coast powder days well until enough until it’s cut up enough to break out the Enforcers? 186 or 192? My hunch is 186 for maneuverability. What else should I think about? Thanks in advance.

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Ahoy! So I view the FR110 as a soft snow shape. Powder, yes, but also all matter of softer snow. IThe FR120 is (IMO) a powder ski. It is effectively the same shape, just +1cm wider. In particular, the 110 is going to be more fun in the woods and skiing moguls like you are in a skate park. Due to the width, and the stability that extra 1cm brings, the 120 is a bit more for just ripping around.

Based on the skis you have, I would say that there is probably more overlap with your enforcers with the 110, and to just go for the 120. It is quite a versatile shape, it monstertrucks chop and variable quite well, so i really don't think you would be bummed at the end of a powder cycle as the mountain gets beat to crap. And because Japan.

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Shredeagle

Still got a lot to learn on these skis and by no means am I giving up camber. But what a fun experiment this year learning something new. Thanks for the inspiration Gaijin. Thanks for the awesome skis Marshall and going above and beyond on things like the tuning email and offering to help when we are overthinking things.

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Holler any time if helpful. I am always down talking through how to unlock these puppies.

Finally getting the hang of the FR110s. I detuned the tips and tails slightly, it felt like I was locked in turns in dense 3d snow (could have just been the snow).

The flex pattern on these things is crazy, it feels like a full suspension mtb. Super fun, extremely easy to pivot, but they still feel kinda demanding for some reason. Could just be a little longer than what I'm used to skiing.

Hey man!

out of curiosity, what skis are you coming from?

happy to talk through specifics via pm or email any time too, if helpful to explore in more detail.

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Originally Posted by K1mJ0ngTr1ll

The R110..


Stats: 6'1 215ish


My first day was at Alta on Marshals demo pair and I immediately bothered him for a personal pair... Which I was lucky enough to get a hold of.


My personal pair's first time out was a shitty icy night at Brighton. There was just a touch of fresh on ice. I immediately felt like the tail was grabbing. It was kicking my ass and was honestly scaring me. It felt a lot like my On3p OG Woodsman 108, a victim of the Tunegate, and this was early in my ski career and before I engaged in the life of a TGR maggot. I ended up selling the woods and chalking it up to me not jiving with On3p. With the knowledge now, I was pretty confident in the tune being off. I took them down to my local shop in SLC, which I consider to do the best work in the valley. (https://www.7evenskis.com/) This is a shameless plug for Todd and the crew. We soon discovered that the base bevel was sitting at 0.3 in most of the ski and all of the tail. This perfectly explains the sensation I felt that night at Brighton. Thus, we reset to 1.5/2. I want to add here that Marshal is a one-man band, and I pried these Rs out of his hands. His communication and offers to help will 100% keep me on some sort of HLs in the future.


Fast forward to my next weekend and an overnight 8 inches at Alta. I planned to A/B test the R with my Moment CT 110. Skiing the R first in the morning. The tail with the fresh tune was now extremely easy and was a drift machine. They also carved extremely well for a 110. Long turns, but in anything remotely soft, they rip! After a half day... I decided not to return to the truck and continued on the R since I was having too much fun. My friend who I was with after two runs said "holy shit you are skiing fast today". I felt like I was, but I never felt like I was out of control at any point. These things are so confidence-inspiring in chop and do not have a limit that I am capable of.


Weight: My pair of 187s came in at about 2335g per. I now firmly believe that there is no replacement for mass when it comes to suspension. The weight, however, does not tire me out any more than my CT 110, which weighs almost a full 200g less. I would say because of the suspension it provides, it is less fatiguing than a lighter ski in choppy, uneven conditions as it does the work of muting out rough snow for you. The ski is also easier to pivot, being flat underfoot. I'm working on skiing tighter spaces and bumps and find these to be very easy in these spots.


This is where the R separates itself apart. Yesterday, there was 10 inches of windblown pow with extra firm scrubbed areas. I was so impressed at the ability of this ski to stay locked in when I needed it and drifty when I wanted to eject out of a turn. The tail is supportive while being easy and forgiving of getting a little backseat. While I don't think these are as loose and playful as the FR profile, they are incredibly versatile and still a shit load of fun with the capability to to be skied a bit more centered or drive the ski.


All in all, it's the first ski I grab in a heavily bloated quiver filled with overlap.


Marshal, keep doing what your doing.

Sorry for my shit writing... I tend to ramble.
-KJT

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This was cause for me pulling the trigger on some R110s today. Stoked!

Had a great week on FR
Alta bird mini golf.
Had to adjust my style. But well worth it.

Spent the second week at jh and confess there are other skis I reached for.
Wanted more charging. I think the R would be better for big mountain resorts.
But for mini golf gymkhana it’s hard to beat full reverse. And these are the best reverse ever.

What’s the comparison of R110 to a Dragon era Katana sound like?


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Hey man!

so I definitely don’t think the R110 is a katana equivalent! The R110 is a much more progressive mount, so long supportive tail and more surfy tip comparatively, where the Katana is an all business shovel and a short tail. the 105 and 113 would be more comparable to the katanas.

hope this helps!

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Hey man!

so I definitely don’t think the R110 is a katana equivalent! The R110 is a much more progressive mount, so long supportive tail and more surfy tip comparatively, where the Katana is an all business shovel and a short tail. the 105 and 113 would be more comparable to the katanas.

hope this helps!

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Does help, thanks MO

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Originally Posted by Upinsmoke

There is a thread dedicated to the swallowtails

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Thanks - just saw that. And thanks chewski for the additional details.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Ahoy! So I view the FR110 as a soft snow shape. Powder, yes, but also all matter of softer snow. IThe FR120 is (IMO) a powder ski. It is effectively the same shape, just +1cm wider. In particular, the 110 is going to be more fun in the woods and skiing moguls like you are in a skate park. Due to the width, and the stability that extra 1cm brings, the 120 is a bit more for just ripping around.

Based on the skis you have, I would say that there is probably more overlap with your enforcers with the 110, and to just go for the 120. It is quite a versatile shape, it monstertrucks chop and variable quite well, so i really don't think you would be bummed at the end of a powder cycle as the mountain gets beat to crap. And because Japan.

Cheers!

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Makes total sense. Thanks, Marshal!

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

I hate to be a Debbie Downer in this thread of overflowing stoke, but I wasn't super psyched on the R110 (FWIW, Marshal and I have already discussed all of this via text already). The tails wanted to stay locked in a lot more than I'd like for a full rocker ski. I had ski them really forward to overcome this and make them pivot easily, and getting even a little backseat was punished hard. That made fast bumpy runouts really sporty and not in a good way. For me at least, since a rockered ski inherently gives up some stability I want to be able to throw them sideways at will, especially if I find my self a little out of position. They did have moments of brilliance, particularly linking doubles across traverses and steep lippy jumps.

I'd like to give them another shot with a +1 to +2 mount which may allow a more neutral stance. Besides experimenting with mount point it's also possible

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Yo DTM, did you get out on these or the R110 some more. I think you are one of the few people who have spent as many days on the sickle as me and am interested in your thoughts on them vs the old Rossi.

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Originally Posted by skisurfmirth

Yo DTM, did you get out on these or the R110 some more. I think you are one of the few people who have spent as many days on the sickle as me and am interested in your thoughts on them vs the old Rossi.

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hey man, I haven’t been able to get back with DTM quite yet, as the demos have been out non-stop since. Will circle back once this slow down a bit!

Had three great powder days on the FR110 with these recent storms.

Marshal, how do you decide and what is the motivating factor on weight?
These seem "heavy" for soft snow skis and with no metal? A guide also recently picked them up and said 'wow these are heavy'.
They are heavier than R11, Hoji, Ripstick 116, QST blank, Bonafide, etc.
I know you have a good reason and would like to understand so I better know their intended use conditions.

Would the lighter skis be easier to ski in untracked snow?

I've been having too much fun in these conditions to go back to back with my R11 in the same day but I probably should.

"Wow, these are heavy!" is a good thing IMO.

Chunder muffin busters.
Potato mashers.
Chicken head crushers.
Crud and chop buffers.
Generally just a magic carpet.

But, are still lively, fun and able to do easy snow too!

PS I have a R110 (&R120), not FR.

PPS I might choose a different ski if was hiking all day, because "Wow, these are heavy!".

Looks like great turns man!

regarding mass, it reverts back to Newtons Second Law. Force = Mass x Acceleration. So given a fixed acceleration down the fall line, a heavier ski can absorb more energy. For powder skis, this isn’t relevant when skiing untracked snow, but is massively relevant once you start crossing tracks and the mountain starts getting scrapped off.

id say the FR110 weight benchmarks with lots of 11x and 18x sized skis that are very well regarded (line blade optic, Rossi sender, dynastar m free, J skis etc). The difference is the FR will generally be crisper on edge and damper on hard snow, while also being more slashy and surfy.

If you are skiing untracked low density snow all day and unlikely to cross tracks, I’d say there is very little to no penalty going with the far lighter BC build from HL for that, since untracked low density snow is inharently damp and the build of the BC skis is going to be more similarly damp to the skis you mention that are around 2000g weight.

Thanks Marshal! More of a curiosity and if I was leaving anything on the table by going lighter if all untracked. I'm not the most experienced skier.

I definitely appreciate how they feel once things are chopped up.

Planning on another untracked day on Wednesday if this storm delivers.

Cheers man! Enjoy!
Always down to talk it through

Found a good sticker for the FR110….cause I’m waiting for it to get awesome? I’ve had them out in softer snow. Not sure why my pair aren’t clicking with me as I friggin love ~110mm rockered skis mounted at -6cm.

Tips and tails very sharp and hooky. Like really hooky.

I skied them back to back with my Hojis. The Hojis release. FR110’s don’t.

Base grind? Detune tips and tails? Sell?

PS I had someone else ski them for 1/2 a day and they said the same.

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I couldn't catch up in the lift line at Alyeska to a dude rocking a pair of FR110 yesterday (16" of dense (Classic Aly) pow). I've had a crush on these skis all winter long. I was imagining this was a perfect day for those skis.

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

Found a good sticker for the FR110….cause I’m waiting for it to get awesome? I’ve had them out in softer snow. Not sure why my pair aren’t clicking with me as I friggin love ~110mm rockered skis mounted at -6cm.

Tips and tails very sharp and hooky. Like really hooky.

I skied them back to back with my Hojis. The Hojis release. FR110’s don’t.

Base grind? Detune tips and tails? Sell?

PS I had someone else ski them for 1/2 a day and they said the same.

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Drop them off at profile, derek will fix them

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

Found a good sticker for the FR110….cause I’m waiting for it to get awesome? I’ve had them out in softer snow. Not sure why my pair aren’t clicking with me as I friggin love ~110mm rockered skis mounted at -6cm.

Tips and tails very sharp and hooky. Like really hooky.

I skied them back to back with my Hojis. The Hojis release. FR110’s don’t.

Base grind? Detune tips and tails? Sell?

PS I had someone else ski them for 1/2 a day and they said the same.

Attachment 490349

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Base bevel

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

Found a good sticker for the FR110….cause I’m waiting for it to get awesome? I’ve had them out in softer snow. Not sure why my pair aren’t clicking with me as I friggin love ~110mm rockered skis mounted at -6cm.

Tips and tails very sharp and hooky. Like really hooky.

I skied them back to back with my Hojis. The Hojis release. FR110’s don’t.

Base grind? Detune tips and tails? Sell?

PS I had someone else ski them for 1/2 a day and they said the same.

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I had the same experience, I would detune the tips and tails aggressively.


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Yep, just detune them. Take gummy with you next time and adjust it more if needed. Do this to all my skis.


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I had a similar experience. I detuned tips and tails with a gummy and it went away.

Ya I was skiing today without my gummy stone in my pack!


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Had same issue. I put a 2 degree bevel on mine and detuned tips and tails. Super way better now.

How far are you guys detuning? I wasn’t sure how far to go. I prob did about 8 inches from tip? Haven’t given up any groomer performance yet. I just did it to the point where it seemed like if I held the skis together there was still some rocker even with me pushing them together but I’m tempted to go a bit more. It’s definitely less than I do on my camber skis.

Someone mentioned up thread about skiing the bumps like a skate park on these skis. This is my new addiction. So much fun!!

Also found that learning to ski these has made be a better skier on my other sticks by learning to ski with different balance points. Problem is I just want to ski skate park bumps now and am avoiding my old favorites.


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Marshall hand tunes the fuck on every ski

Skied the FR for a week. Never felt like it was hooky.
Ymmv.

Yeah. Bumps are weird on full reverse. You can scrub the tails on the moguls. Mind blowing. And cool.

Everyone has their own preference on tune. Usually smart for the mfg to err on the side of too sharp, since it's easier to make a sharp edge dull than a dull edge sharp.

Rocks, railings, etc. work great when you don't have a gummy at hand.

I ski Hojis and Ravens about 30+ days a year inbounds. I love full reverse. Even on icy days. Scrubbing is awesome.

My FR110 doesn’t scrub. That’s the issue. It grabs when you’re slarving a Hoji turn. I’m sure it’s the edges. They’re sharp.

Everyone I skied with yesterday was having a great time. I was like WTF? My previous day on the FR110 was in rain/slush…so the edges were less noticeable?

I’ll detune and maybe visit Profile next week.


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Originally Posted by kc_7777

I ski Hojis and Ravens about 30+ days a year inbounds. I love full reverse. Even on icy days. Scrubbing is awesome.

My FR110 doesn’t scrub. That’s the issue. It grabs when you’re slarving a Hoji turn. I’m sure it’s the edges. They’re sharp.

Everyone I skied with yesterday was having a great time. I was like WTF? My previous day on the FR110 was in rain/slush…so the edges were less noticeable?

I’ll detune and maybe visit Profile next week.


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MO has aknowledged that a batch went through with no/little base bevel. I’m sure he will chime in when he sees the last 10 posts or so.

I reset bevels to 1,5 and have detuned a fair bit. Still a work in progress, but far better

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

I ski Hojis and Ravens about 30+ days a year inbounds. I love full reverse. Even on icy days. Scrubbing is awesome.

My FR110 doesn’t scrub. That’s the issue. It grabs when you’re slarving a Hoji turn. I’m sure it’s the edges. They’re sharp.

Everyone I skied with yesterday was having a great time. I was like WTF? My previous day on the FR110 was in rain/slush…so the edges were less noticeable?

I’ll detune and maybe visit Profile next week.


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I know Marshal sets his personal pair at 2/2 and I can tell you they have no problem slarving/drifting.

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

I ski Hojis and Ravens about 30+ days a year inbounds. I love full reverse. Even on icy days. Scrubbing is awesome.

My FR110 doesn’t scrub. That’s the issue. It grabs when you’re slarving a Hoji turn. I’m sure it’s the edges. They’re sharp.

Everyone I skied with yesterday was having a great time. I was like WTF? My previous day on the FR110 was in rain/slush…so the edges were less noticeable?

I’ll detune and maybe visit Profile next week.

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Hey dude, firstly I am sorry that you are not loving them from the first turn. I have revised the standard tune for the FR110 mid season based on feedback and to correct for insufficient base-edge bevel on some skis.

I do believe that I missed the mark on the tune in the batch of skis that you received. For me, it's something important that I am serious about getting right, and super bummed that I didn't for you.

As Pretzel mentioned, Profile has the right specs and can get them perfectly dialed for you. Or if not for you, I'd love to make sure that if you move on from them, the next person has the right ski prep on them.

I'll shoot you a quick PM to confirm.

Do you have a sense of what run of skis have this issue? Mine are still sitting unmounted because Fedex has now lost the second set of pivots I've purchased in the last two months, but all of this has me a bit worried considering I am still in recovery mode from my accident. I'll double check the tune before I mount them up, but figured I would ask,

Given your injury, lets over-index on caution!

Easiest to verify would be to either use a bevel meter to measure the edges or just run a file at 1.5* guide and see if it cuts or glides.

Shoot me a PM and we can sort it easily.

My FR110 are of the first pressing(serial number 006). I believe smileys are too. Mine have no tune issues at all. Skied awesome out of the wrapper.

I just got a PM from Marshall.

He’s gonna pay for a tune at Profile in Whistler. Didn’t ask. He just approached me. Stand up guy.

Marshal recommended having them blank the ski, and set the bevels to 1.5* base and 2* side edge with a nice detune in the taper section and condition specific wax.

FYI my FR110 serial number is:

24152305 180V0 002

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