Gracias. 25 pages of info and the answer was staring me in the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
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Gracias. 25 pages of info and the answer was staring me in the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
I got a great fit on Vulcan/pwer wrap without any punches, skinny low volume ankles, HIGH instepQuote:
Originally Posted by gregL
but of course what next if the Vulcan goes south ?
can you compare the tour pro &/or Hawx to a Vulcan ?
So what's the verdict with these as a 50/50 boot? Just picked up a pair of these. I currently have some Lange Freetours that I use in a 50/50 role, and I'm kinda wondering if these can take over that duty, or if I should just continue with my Langes for inbounds and the ZeroGs for touring.
In my experience the Lange Freetours ski about as well (like 90% the performance) as the regular Lange RX130s... so if the ZeroGs ski anything like the Freetours, I feel it'd be more than capable in that role.
...and tbh I'd rather have just one boot for everything. I've always found the less variation you have in your ski setup, the better you ski.
edit: For what it's worth, I currently ski almost exactly 50/50. Last year I had exactly as many days on the skintrack/bootpack as I did inbounds. Not at all stoked with the freetours on the skintrack, hence the new purchase.
Hey xxx'er; details are a bit fuzzy due to time elapsed but I did fit/flex testing of both boots compared to Vulcans without tongue/no flex stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Tried all boots with stock liners, vulcan stock liners and intuition hv luxury liners.
Hawx had a subjectively higher instep area compared to vulcans and lower volume shaft. A problem fit area presented itself when boots were in tour mode and I walked up and down ramps and stepped up/down stairs. Pressure point at medial lower tib/talus area. Same problem i had in the solly mtn labs so hawx are off the table. Yes, heat molding and punching could mitigate the issue but don't wanna risk it.
ZGTP featured a lower instep compared to Hawx, slightly more volume in shaft but perhaps a bit less than vulcan. No pressure point in Hawx problem area.
Both boots felt pretty similar to vulcan in terms of heel hold and ankle fit.
Won't comment on flex cause in store/warm temps. Got no clue how they'd all stack up in real world skiing at cold temps.
One thing I noticed with flex quality was the Hawx shell showed a lot of outward 'blowing out' lateral expansion at cuff rivets; more than the Vulcans at room temp. The Technicas hinged smoothly with minimal signs of that malady. Could all be dependent on where that cuff rivet hinge point sits in relation to yer ankle bones? I don't know, but suspect for me at least, the Tecnicas would ski better with more lateral support/precision when driving the ski with 10 and 2 oclock shin pressure.
I had both and the zero g skis better than the free tourQuote:
Originally Posted by macon
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Good to know, looks like I'll probably rock the zero g full time.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
Did some fit/flex testing of this boot a few weeks ago; in store, room temp. Examined the ski/walk mode lever and how the upper and lower cuff locking mechanisms function. IIRC (correct me if i'm wrong): It appeared that the upper one only provides full lock for forward flexing.
When in ski mode, lower locking lever engaged: I noticed that if the upper locking lever is held out so that it doesn't engage, forward flex stiffness was softer and allowed for more ankle range of motion. Slight, subtle but notable effect.
Got me thinking... Has anyone fiddled around with this and skied with that upper locking lever disengaged? Seems like a piece of correctly sized material can be inserted into that gap to hold the lever out and 'open'. Wondering if this could allow some real time/in field adjustment of softening the boot flex for conditions where that would be preferable.
Attachment 302915
I haven't tried it. I felt I got them same results by simply not using the power strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by swissiphic
FWIW, a few people who I’ve talked to that have skied both say the Hawx 130 XTD is a bit stiffer or supportive.Quote:
Originally Posted by swissiphic
Also, I’ve read that some expansion of the ankle area is required for a good skiing boot - the expansion in that area gives you the space to roll your ankles to shift weight onto the edge appropriately.
But... by all means, get what fits the best (after bootwork of course).
I have both and disagree. Freetour has a smoother flex and works better for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
For bigger skis and resort bumps I’d rather have the smoothness of the Freetour. For the weight and ROM the ZeroG skis great and it’s a phenomenal do it all touring boot; to the point I got rid of my TLT6s.
Maybe. I skied Katanas with both boots and i still prefer the zeroQuote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
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How similar would you say the Cochise and Freetour are?Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
I have 16/17 Freetours, and yes the flex is quite smooth but it's also quite soft when compared to the ZeroG TP. Room temperature, of course.
One of my complaints with the Freetours is that they're a little too soft imho. I'm 5'10", 155lbs.
Thanks for that perspective on boot shell ankle area lateral expansion phenomenon. I guess i'm inherently biased against it due to years of skiing the dinosaur era touring boots like the dynafit tlt 4s, all terrain, garmont megarides and radiums where the blowing out of the ankle area resulted in complete forward collapse of the boots when pounding moguls and skiing deep ski pen snow under breakable crust in the skinnier skis of the era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
Also, FWIW; I've been workin' on an adjustable forward flex mod for my vulcans. When set to the softer settings, there's a notable reduction in the lateral expansion at the ankle. I suspect that the energy gets absorbed by the rubber suspension piece as it squishes and absorbs all the micro and macro hits with shin resting on the tongue of boots. Works awesome so far in limited testing. I'm skiing them in the soft setting range these days and loving the long stroke ankle flex and much improved progressiveness and damping of flex feelz. Boot stiffness is probably in the 100-105 range at soft settings.
Attachment 303030
I'd say the overall flex of the Hawx Ultra 130 XTD and the Zero G Tour Pro is comparable, but the Atomic has more resistance early in the flex pattern and so might be perceived by some people as stiffer. At my weight the Zero G deflects a bit less at the bend in the shell when heavily loaded. Both boots ski well. I'd rate them both as 120-125 flex depending on which ankle is in the boot. I estimate the Lange XT Free at about a 115-120 flex, but prefer it for lift-served when there's no chance of skinning - skiing "well" isn't strictly about forward stiffness. FWIW I use the Hawx Ultra XTD and ZG Tour Pro almost exclusively for touring now, and ski both with no power strap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
I think the discussion of room around the ankle and medial midfoot is pertinent for competitive downhill and super G skiers, who want to roll into the turn very gradually and avoid excess edge on the snow (slalom and GS skiers have always sought to bring the clog and cuff as close to their foot/leg as possible).
Most all-mountain and backcountry skiers don't have the same needs and are usually impressed when they can subtly roll their ankle and get the ski to react in the Hawx Ultra series.
I've decided I'm gonna mount my booster strap on my Zero Gs and use them 50/50 and ditch the Freetours.
I feel as though the stiffer flex of the ZeroG + the additional elasticity from the booster strap will lend itself to be a stronger inbounds boot than the freetour. Booster strap will only add ~90g.
Jury is still out till I actually get these suckers on snow... but that's my thought process right now.
I only have 8-10 days on my Z-Gs (last Spring and two days this Fall), so I can't definitively compare them with my first year XT-130s.
Qualitatively (irrespective of absolute stiffness), the Langes feel a bit more like an inbounds boot however ... just a bit.
Having said that, if I didn't own the Langes, I'd be perfectly content skiing the Z-Gs inbounds.
In saying this, keep in mind that I scratch my head in amazement when folks report inadequate support from the Lange's spine. I'm the guy who's skied inbounds an entire morning unlatched (in climbing mode) - wondering if I was having an off day, until I realized I didn't switch to downhill mode.
... Thom
Thanks for your input on that.
I haven't had any issues with the freetour spine at all, so that's odd to hear as a complaint. I too have accidentally left it in hike mode on more than one occasion... the hike/ski mechanism doesn't provide a lot of feedback and can easily be flicked the wrong way, so maybe that's the source of that complaint.
Alright I took my ZGTPs out for a resort day in absolute crap manky mashed potato snow, that ended up being decent as the day went on.
These ski absurdly well. Had them on my OG Bibbys and I uhh... I think I like them more than I like my Freetours. The flex isn't quite as progressive but it's close... and they're noticeably stiffer, so maybe it's that.
Anyway, the downhill hype for this boot is real. It skis so well. Can't wait to put on a booster strap and maybe shim the liner a bit more with a spoiler to bring me further forward.
Great boot.
Ditto on this. I've been A/B-ing the ZGTP the last few weekends with some Salomon Xmax 120's in alpine bindings (plus last season riding the Scouts).Quote:
Originally Posted by macon
They are a little stiffer than the Xmax's so I'd 100% agree with the TGR Tour Boot flex adjusted rating of 125 for the ZGTP, and just a slight bit less progressive than the Xmax's. It really could be a true quiver of one for boots.
I agree with your assessment / TGR boot flex adjusted ratings. 125 seems like a fair rating for the flex of this boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalNomad
Truth be told, this will become my 1 boot quiver after a I get a little more time in them. Probably gonna sell the lange freetours to a buddy or to a maggot or something.
A tour wrap liner drastically improved ski feel for me. Still doesn’t quite have the progressive feel or depth as the free tour but improved significantly. Defiantly enough where I could get away with it inbounds, especially with a tech toe binding like the Tecton or KingPin.
How does the tech binding increase performance? Or do you mean bc of the ramp angle?.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
I've only had my ZGTP out on a few tours with decent snow so too early to say, but they ski really well. I have a foamed liner and booster strap inthere tho, so that may improve things.
I was afraid they'd be to upright but I actually think the first part of the flex is rather soft and you push through that so easily that the fwd angle is in line with other boots.
Need to AB more against my Lange ZA's but so far I am impressed. Also, they tour so much better than the previous ZeroG !
The tech toe prevents the sloppiness of a rubber/rockered sole with traditional binding. One of the benefits of the Freetour, Cochise, and even the XTD over a 0G is a more solid sole connection with the binding. The firm section in the ZeroG helps but it’s still noticeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth operator
I haven't noticed any slopiness when I have the ZGTP clipped into my shifts.
How much room in the instep can I gain by grinding the bootboard?
After spending some time carpet testing these with my custom footbeds and stock liners, I have significant pressure points across the entirety of my instep. For reference, I have a wide forefoot, obscenely high instep, and an extremely narrow heel.
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Have you heat molded the liner? You'll get some room there. Have you had the forefoot punched? There's a chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by GBB
you'll get some additional instep room as your foot is able to relax a bit more.
You can probably only grind the boot board 2mm. Which in a ski boot can be a remarkable amount of room.
A good boot fitter can punch for instep room but it's not super easy to accomplish.
4 days in on these and so far am really happy. I'm coming off the previous version Guide Pros (which are for sale, 27.5). These newer boots are lighter, tour better, have a better walk mode and also ski better on downhill. The added stiffness is noticed and they feel more precise and less vague than the previous boots did. A worthy upgrade so far. I'm skiing them on 187 Moment Meridian tours with dynafit superlight 2.0s.
As another with a high instep, not enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by GBB
Cutting the elastic out of the liner helped a bunch. Swapping to a tour wrap liner accomplished a lot more. I did some minor instep stretches.
This. My bootboard is sanded to the point it's nearly transparent but it didn't do as much as removing the elastic band holding the tongue down. I have to be more careful now when I take the boot off as it's a battle and the tongue could get ripped out. No instep stretching was needed once the elastic came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
I haven't heat molded the liner yet nor have I punched the forefoot. I was actually surprised at how well they shell fit given my wide forefoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
Helpful. I hadn't yet considered cutting the elastic out of the liner. My initial plan was to throw a tour wrap in them once the stock liner ran its course. Are you happy with the fit after these modifications? What experiences have you had with them on long days post modification?Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
From you and Xavier sounds like the boot board grind isn't going to do much for me. Will start with the elastic band first. Thanks for the feedback all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissal
For me grinding the boot board helped reduce pressure above the toe knuckles, I lost a bit of height there when the boots were punched for width. The instep pressure went down with a combination of boot board grind + cutting the elastic band + molding with thick padding on top of the foot. I went from really painful couple of days at first to banging out back to back 6k days with boots that feel as good as my ultra-comfy Spectres which have 150 days on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GBB
Anyone here have issues with the screws in the walk mode falling out? I had two people walk into my shop, back to back, with a screw missing in the walk mode.
Tour wrap always sounds like a good idea...
I’m so impressed with this boot. I think it descends better than the orange/blue Cochise 130. Walking in them is easy. Mild Achilles soreness, but otherwise, usable fit without any liner molding or boot work. They drive the 190 bibby tour/Tecton combination really well.
So I went and checked my boots (this year's Zero G Scout), and found that I was missing 4 screws and the other ones were loose. Yikes! I've only skied in them three times and toured (short tour) in them twice. My guess is that they might have never been there at all. Off to hardware store and bust out the locktite. Worth a look if you have same boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
I've actually had a couple gripes re: the hardware in this boot. I've had buckles shear straight through the metal, toe fittings go out of spec to the point of auto-releasing, etc. I don't know if it's just growing pains with a newish boot or if they traded durability for weight savings by going with a mushy alloy, but I'm not super pleased.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choucas
Yup the first years boots didn't have locktite on them, I had some fall out (heard some pros did as well). This seasons boots got sent out with locktite + a bunch of extra screws with locktite predone on them. It's good locktite, I went to change the angle of them to the 13 and really had to be careful not to strip the screw head.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
The bootboard itself is only about 4mm thick under the center of the arch, but there's no rule saying it has to remain in 1 piece. You can cut 3 inches out between the heel and forefoot, taper the forefoot part so it transitions smoothly, and hot glue the two pieces back in. That will get you 4mm, which is a ton of extra volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
Even grinding the boot board 2mm is a pretty large change in volume since you're effectively changing the radius of the deformed cylinder, since the radius is squared in relation to that volume.
Any thoughts after changing the forward lean? Did it make much of a difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalNomad
The cuff rivets on my boots have a fair bit of slop in them now after about a months use (look like they are about to snap). Would be so much better if they used screwed fittings, going to have to make my own cuff pivots now (lucky I have a lathe..)Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskydoc
Screws in the walk mode have also come loose but picked that up before they fell out...