Do Mormons really affect you?

I think Krakauer did a nice job of explaining that Mormonism is easier to pick on, to pick apart, and to otherwise obliterate because it is so recent. The dirt and fallacies of its origins are all pretty easy to document and right before our eyes. Basically, all religions could be torn apart with relatively the same ease if we didn't have the haze of time to look through.

It also seems to be fairly efficient at spawning breakaway sects because of various tenants that empower individuals to break from the mainstream.

With time, the Church should be able to hide the dirt, and morph, continue to become more and more mainstream, just as all religions have, and have too in order to stay viable.

All of this amounts to comedic opportunity that cannot be ignored. I greatly enjoy the new HBO special that makes a kicking horse out of the fringes of the Mormon culture.

Sushi yum
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...bum/wc056a.jpg



Its all about the $$$$$$$

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Originally Posted by Endlessseason

I am very disappointed that some of you whom I've met could post some of this bullcrap knowing full well mormons don't behave or believe that way. Fine if you're bored and want to stir the pot on the forum, but don't do it so disingenuously--at the expense of friendships.

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When you go back and read what I've wrote I think you'll see that I have no quarrel with you or LDS like you.

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Originally Posted by spthomson

Viva - thanks for being nice. :biggrin:

I truly wasn't trying to impress with big words. I actually borrowed some of that explanation of false distinction in the context of creation vs. evolution. I recognized the logical fallacy, but was having a hard time explaining it succinctly.

I was just pointing out one of many logical fallacies often used by evolutionists which often stand in the way of openly looking at the evidence supporting each side. In this case, making it an argument of science vs religion often causes the evolutionist to say "end of story" instead of examining evidence for evolution vs. evidence for creation.

Clear as mud? ;)

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The only problem is that there is NO evidence supporting creationism.

Also, to say that there is a small minority of people in this country whom believe in creationism is denying the facts. In a recent poll 51% of repondents said they believe in creation just as it says in the bible, while another 31% believe in intelligent design. only 18% of the country believe in evolution. And we wonder why we are falling behind in science??

chicken or da egg?:fm: :fm: :fm: :fm: :fm: :fm:

With the exception of mathematics, it's pretty difficult to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. My point is that evolution is something which can be tested through a scientific process, while creationism is a mythology which cannot be tested. So is there really even such a thing as thinking creationism?
My answer would be no.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Also, to say that there is a small minority of people in this country whom believe in creationism is denying the facts. In a recent poll 51% of repondents said they believe in creation just as it says in the bible, while another 31% believe in intelligent design. only 18% of the country believe in evolution. And we wonder why we are falling behind in science??

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Interesting numbers. I really would have thought there would have been more, only 18%? I'd be curious to know who did poll and when.

Also, I'm not buying people on this forum's "we have to be nice and respect everybody" attitude. I would like to enter into evidence, exhibit A: Texas :biggrin: :p

edit: Also also, the chicken and the egg question has never bothered me since dinosaurs were around laying eggs well before chickens came around.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

chicken or da egg?:fm: :fm: :fm: :fm: :fm: :fm:

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All I see is da Tap

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Originally Posted by ctarmchair

Unfortunately, "intelligent design" in this country usually is shorthand for biblical creationism as opposed to a critically thought-out theory (which it can also be).

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Intelligent design cannot be a theory in an scientific sense as it is untestable.

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Originally Posted by ctarmchair

Belief in the strict theory of evolution being a proven scientific fact is also shorthand for, if not a tenet of a secular, post-christian religion, then at least a bit of tribal lore that signifies a certain educational and professional status of the person holding the belief.

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Givent that the theory of evolution is a key (if not the key) principle in an understanding of biological sciences, there is probably a good reason why it signifies a "certain educational and professional status of the person hodling the belief."

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Originally Posted by golden powder

Interesting numbers. I really would have thought there would have been more, only 18%? I'd be curious to know who did poll and when.

Also, I'm not buying people on this forum's "we have to be nice and respect everybody" attitude. I would like to enter into evidence, exhibit A: Texas :biggrin: :p

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The poll I quoted was Gallup. But other polls, conducted by CBS, show less of the population accepting evolution (12%). And state that 65% of the country would like to have creationism and evolution taught side by side in the classroom. Yet another good reason why government shouldn't always go with public opinion on any given matter.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

The poll I quoted was Gallup. But other polls, conducted by CBS, show less of the population accepting evolution (12%). And state that 65% of the country would like to have creationism and evolution taught side by side in the classroom. Yet another good reason why government shouldn't always go with public opinion on any given matter.

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It probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but I wonder how the numbers would be different if both choices were given. Oh well, that's democracy for ya.

And I should probably stop thinking aloud.

Yeti, you continue to make the point of my first post without me having to defend it at all.

You're deeply offended because of the name of some trail? There are trails, parks, streets and cities all over this country named after murderers, thieves and scaliwags. I don't think they define the group of people who live around said features.

You're beliefs and way of life, like my own, are different than the norm for 95% of this country, yet you have the need to feel personally persecuted.

anyone ever read "The Science of God" by Gerald Schroder?
can be a little technical but basically discusses how science can somewhat prove the existence of a "creator". even touches on the whole dinosaur issue. can be a little out there but some of the ideas make you think.

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Originally Posted by criscam

some of the ideas make you think

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what a wack job?

What is the dinosaur issue?

Holy shit. 420 posts in a thread bashing a religion... a personal Faith. Let's expand and shit on other Christian Faiths as well, shall we? Let's talk about:

The Crusades
The Inquisition
The 100 Year War (Protestants vs Catholics)

Creationism is a construct of Faith, not a matter of hard Science. If the numbers in that poll are true, then we as a country should kick ourselves in the nuts repeatedly. That's a fucking Embarrasment of the highest order.

This does not mean that Faith (or "God" specifically) doesn't have a place in Science.

Go back all the way to the Big Bang. Fine - that was the "beginning" of the Universe. One question: what was it that banged, and how did it get there? At some point something came out of nothing. That implies a will and a power to creating something from nothing. Until we explain THAT scientifically we cannot rationalize God/Allah/Manitou/Bob away.

The God of suspension forks?

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Go back all the way to the Big Bang. Fine - that was the "beginning" of the Universe. One question: what was it that banged, and how did it get there? At some point something came out of nothing. That implies a will and a power to creating something from nothing. Until we explain THAT scientifically we cannot rationalize God/Allah/Manitou/Bob away.

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That's only implied by the human mind and our subjective experience. Something vs. nothing, the beginning versus the end. Maybe we came from another universe, that came from another, which came from another on and on and it's always been that way? How can you have eternity on one end but not the other?

Your Chewbacca Defense confuses me. You're saying that this Superdense ball of material that banged during the Big Bang had been around eternally already? If so, what reason did it have to bang at all? Once again a motive force is implied in the Theory.

I'm not arguing that God does indeed exist. I AM arguing that Science cannot prove that there is no God.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Holy shit. 420 posts in a thread bashing a religion... a personal Faith. Let's expand and shit on other Christian Faiths as well, shall we?

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Personally, I prefer to bash Zoroastrianism.

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/images/young.jpg

http://www.freedominla.org/issue07/img/pg18_1.jpg

Difficult to see the difference between the two - although at least Hubbard came up with his own unique fairytale on which to base a cult?

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Originally Posted by flykdog

You have no idea how oppressive it is here! Sometimes when I wake up in the morning i look outside to make sure i'm not in nazi germany. It is insane, the cops are constantly harrassing me for no good reason. Why, just this morning I was driving my subie with the pot leaf window decals, legalize it bumper sticker and dancing acid bears and the cops pulled me over for nothing! Said i had a busted tail light. Fuckers.

And don't even get me started on the beer thing. I can't even enjoy real beer, instead of having to drink 6 beers to get buzzed, i need seven!@! The horror.

I went to a job interview this morning and the guy had the nerve to ask me how my weekend was. I knew what he was getting at, he wanted to know if I went to church. I said "fuck you, you mormon". I know i won't get that job cause i'm not a mo.

I know i don't have any representation in the local government so i don't even bother to get involved or vote.

In short the oppressiveness of mormon utah is ruining my life.

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Coming up on my first year here and i have to agree with flyk.
Two days after i got here in may it snowed 2' in the mountains. i thought wtf, this is supposed to be spring. then a couple missionaries came by my house. knew we were new here. asked me if we had any questions about the lds. said that we were all set. they said ok and that if we needed help with moving or anything to let them know. haven't seen the f'kers since. then we met our mormon neighbors. don't like them cause their always asking how's everything going and so g'dam nice. and then there are sunday's. seem's like everytime i go out skiing/hiking/biking on a sunday, there's hardly anyone around to talk to on the trail or in the (lack of) lift lines.
come to think of it, this has been one of the worst winters of my life. i mean yea, i broke my leg at the beginning of the season and haven't skied since, but i'm blaming the mormons anyway. already looking to move back east. :D

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Originally Posted by Tippster

H

Creationism is a construct of Faith, not a matter of hard Science. If the numbers in that poll are true, then we as a country should kick ourselves in the nuts repeatedly. That's a fucking Embarrasment of the highest order.

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Then we better start kicking, those numbers are pretty generous to evolutionists.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

Your Chewbacca Defense confuses me. You're saying that this Superdense ball of material that banged during the Big Bang had been around eternally already? If so, what reason did it have to bang at all? Once again a motive force is implied in the Theory.

I'm not arguing that God does indeed exist. I AM arguing that Science cannot prove that there is no God.

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I agree, god is beyond the realm of science. But if you look into some of the crazy string theory crap, not that I'm smart enough to really understand it, you get the sense there is a lot happining with matter, energy etc.. we may never understand. Maybe the thing you are calling nothing is just beyond our understanding, like god. My guess is human intelligence and technology will never be good enough to give us a complete understanding of nature/the universe.

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Originally Posted by Cyber Cop

That's only implied by the human mind and our subjective experience. Something vs. nothing, the beginning versus the end.

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I agree with this. The human mind just has difficulty grasping the idea of something being infinite. Maybe there really was no beginning.

I think it’s a great thread.

Its only words people. There have been more good posts than bad. If you can’t take outsiders probing of your beliefs maybe you’re due to for some self-examination.

I could care less if a christiam/muslim/jewish/whatever thread was started. People who get offended by posts on a message board are most likely racked with self-doubt.