Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

On this topic, does anyone know how the volume of an Intuition Pro Tour LV compares to the stock liner?

I'm concerned my 25.5s may be too small for touring--does anyone have experience with how much the boot can be punched for length?

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They can be punched for length a bit but not a lot. I got 26.5s thinking they could be stretched in length as much as my Dalbello KR2 alpine boots, but that was not the case. I would be fine in 26.5s Hawx for alpine, but they were too short in length for long days of touring for me. I upsized to 27.5 with bontex shims under the liner and MV Intuition luxury liners. The performance/comfort ratio has been very good because this boot fits tight as heck in the heel/instep even in the larger size but now I can walk in them all day without super cramped toes.

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

On this topic, does anyone know how the volume of an Intuition Pro Tour LV compares to the stock liner?

I'm concerned my 25.5s may be too small for touring--does anyone have experience with how much the boot can be punched for length?

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Dunno about the LV, but a standard Pro Tour is definitely thicker. That said it molds thinner where you need it just fine. I never molded or skied the stock liner, but the Intuition created a good bit more space in the toe box, both from getting thinner where I needed and from holding my heel in place better.

Like Dromond, my bootfitter couldn't get me as much space for length as I had hoped from punching and grinding. He got me a little. The key for me was trimming my insoles down to 3/4 length - fixed all my space issues in the toe. I didn't want to upsize as I have a very low volume foot so running the smallest shell possible makes sense. Spent a week touring in them every day in BC and they were great.

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

On this topic, does anyone know how the volume of an Intuition Pro Tour LV compares to the stock liner?

I'm concerned my 25.5s may be too small for touring--does anyone have experience with how much the boot can be punched for length?

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The Hawx Ultra 130 XTD is tough to punch more than 4-5mm in length but the 120 Ultra XTD and all of the alpine Hawx Ultras punch quite easily up to 8-9mm. The Grilamid used in the 130 XTD is tougher than all the rest.

I thought the only difference material-wise between the 120 & 130 XTD was the upper cuff. So you are saying that the lower clog is a different grilamid?

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Originally Posted by gregL

The Hawx Ultra 130 XTD is tough to punch more than 4-5mm in length but the 120 Ultra XTD and all of the alpine Hawx Ultras punch quite easily up to 8-9mm. The Grilamid used in the 130 XTD is tougher than all the rest.

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Originally Posted by obnomad

I thought the only difference material-wise between the 120 & 130 XTD was the upper cuff. So you are saying that the lower clog is a different grilamid?

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Yes, I have punched both for length and the shells are different.

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Originally Posted by gregL

Yes, I have punched both for length and the shells are different.

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The lower shells of the XTD 130 and XTD 120 are the exact same material and material hardness. Only the color is different, but that shouldn't lead to a difference in stretching. All other variables were the same on your end? Temperature, time, etc.?

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

The lower shells of the XTD 130 and XTD 120 are the exact same material and material hardness. Only the color is different, but that shouldn't lead to a difference in stretching. All other variables were the same on your end? Temperature, time, etc.?

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Approximately the same time and temp and the same press; I was able to get 5mm way easier with the 120. The regular Hawx Ultra 130 and 110 punch like warm putty and you need to be judicious about how much heat you apply.

Grinding the front of the boot board down a bit can also get you a little more vertical toe room which I found to be low.

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

The lower shells of the XTD 130 and XTD 120 are the exact same material and material hardness. Only the color is different, but that shouldn't lead to a difference in stretching. All other variables were the same on your end? Temperature, time, etc.?

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Since you are probably the guy who orders the materials, how many options does EMS Grivory offer in "stock" Grilamid, or do you do custom formulas depending on the boot?

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Put the laces on the liner. Skin with the liner laced tight and buckles all loose. The whole liner might move in the shell (probably not) but your foot won't move in the liner, so you won't get blisters and you'll get full ROM.

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+1 on the laces. I just got mine and skinned 4000 ft with buckles undone and no laces. One of the tongues keeps getting squeezed to the side so my shin would be pressed to the shell. It's super annoying. I will try laces next time. Mine don't come with laces. I'll just use some 3mm accessory cord and a couple of toggles.

Anyone tried the 100 version? Is super soft or should I just go right to the 120 when I try these on?

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Originally Posted by gregL

Since you are probably the guy who orders the materials, how many options does EMS Grivory offer in "stock" Grilamid, or do you do custom formulas depending on the boot?

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Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: EMS Grivory, as you noted, is a plastic supplier and their trade name for their PA-12 is called Grilamid. Other plastic suppliers make PA-12s and have other names associated with them, such as Vestamid from Evonik. Each supplier has a different take on it, just like each boot manufacturer has a different take on 98mm boots, so they each have their own characteristics that make them slightly different in their own way. "Grilamid" is quickly becoming the go-to plastic because it works awesome, but it's also becoming the "Kleenex" of the touring plastic world- many people mistakenly call a plastic Grilamid when it's a different PA-12 or even a PA-6. In the Hawx Ultra XTD and Backland boots, we use versions of Grilamid from EMS Grivory to meet our needs.

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Originally Posted by snapt

Anyone tried the 100 version? Is super soft or should I just go right to the 120 when I try these on?

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I've done about 12 days skiing in my XTD 100s. 9 days lift served, 3 days touring. Most of those days have been -5C to -25C. At those temps I'd say the boot is a bit stiffer than my 90 flex Rossignol junior race boots.

Biggest issue with the XTD 100 is the crappy liner, so I would say it is only worth buying if you know that you are going to buy an after market liner.

I believe that next year's XTD 100 is going to be more of a 'price point' lower spec boot, so if you want a softer version of the XTD best to buy this year's model while you still can.

Hmm, I may have just written the least 'maggot' post ever seen on Tech Talk.

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Originally Posted by Oceanic

I've done about 12 days skiing in my XTD 100s. 9 days lift served, 3 days touring. Most of those days have been -5C to -25C. At those temps I'd say the boot is a bit stiffer than my 90 flex Rossignol junior race boots.

Biggest issue with the XTD 100 is the crappy liner, so I would say it is only worth buying if you know that you are going to buy an after market liner.

I believe that next year's XTD 100 is going to be more of a 'price point' lower spec boot, so if you want a softer version of the XTD best to buy this year's model while you still can.

Hmm, I may have just written the least 'maggot' post ever seen on Tech Talk.

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Heh, thanks for the Beta. I'm a smaller guy, currently in a pretty true 130 that's way more than I need. I honestly think a true 100, especially for touring would be fine for most of my days, though at this point thinking of going back to a 2 boot quiver.

What kind of Intuitions is everyone using for the 130?

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Originally Posted by ffmedic84

What kind of Intuitions is everyone using for the 130? The stock liner is way too cold. I’ve got about a 12mm shell fit. After the memory fit I still need some width in my toes, I can’t use the buckle over my forefoot without my feet falling asleep. I don’t want to increase the stiffness so I was looking at a lv Dreamliner. Since I’m not looking for stiffer and depending how warm they are maybe just using a pro tour for all days. Any suggestions?

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Also interested in this--I ended up getting 26.5s to replace my 25.5s that were too small (by the way, the quite minty 25.5s will go up for sale soon if anyone's interested). 26.5s are probably a ~15mm shell fit so I don't need a tighter fit for touring, and I will need to heat mold the shells to create more space on top of the instep and on my cuneiform bone. A few questions:

1. Intuition recommends rounding up to a 27 for the Pro Tour--is that a correct assessment for those who have gone this route?
2. Is the standard MV (Medium Volume) Pro Tour similar volume to the stock liner? If so, I'd assume that would work for me, as the Pro Tour LV is out of stock out of stock seemingly everywhere
3. Is there an advantage to molding the Intuition liner at the same time as the shell? Or should the shell be molded first? Or the liner first? Trying to decide if I should order liners now and wait to mold the boots, with the idea that I made need different shell molding with the Intuitions vs. the stock liners.

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Originally Posted by ffmedic84

What kind of Intuitions is everyone using for the 130? The stock liner is way too cold. I’ve got about a 12mm shell fit. After the memory fit I still need some width in my toes, I can’t use the buckle over my forefoot without my feet falling asleep. I don’t want to increase the stiffness so I was looking at a lv Dreamliner. Since I’m not looking for stiffer and depending how warm they are maybe just using a pro tour for all days. Any suggestions?

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I use a ProTour in my 130s and see no reason to do anything differently.

Low or medium volume? I don’t know if I’d be able to fit a mv in with how small the shell is.

Does anyone know where one can get the flip chips that allow this boot to be adjusted to a forward lean more upright than stock? I contacted the retailer where I purchased the boots, but they don't have any and can't seem to order them. I know these exist because I friend was able to get a set from the same place last spring.

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

Also interested in this--I ended up getting 26.5s to replace my 25.5s that were too small (by the way, the quite minty 25.5s will go up for sale soon if anyone's interested). 26.5s are probably a ~15mm shell fit so I don't need a tighter fit for touring, and I will need to heat mold the shells to create more space on top of the instep and on my cuneiform bone. A few questions:

1. Intuition recommends rounding up to a 27 for the Pro Tour--is that a correct assessment for those who have gone this route?
2. Is the standard MV (Medium Volume) Pro Tour similar volume to the stock liner? If so, I'd assume that would work for me, as the Pro Tour LV is out of stock out of stock seemingly everywhere
3. Is there an advantage to molding the Intuition liner at the same time as the shell? Or should the shell be molded first? Or the liner first? Trying to decide if I should order liners now and wait to mold the boots, with the idea that I made need different shell molding with the Intuitions vs. the stock liners.

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I went with the dreamliners myself after a lot of indecision. I want to use them on the resort though so something to consider

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Originally Posted by m22922

I went with the dreamliners myself after a lot of indecision. I want to use them on the resort though so something to consider

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As an update to this, I’m getting some 26 LV Pro Tours through the group buy after discussion with Moment’s boot guy (he’s very knowledgeable) and Intuition confirmed that sizing down the half size likely makes more sense on a low volume shell like the XTD.

My question of whether to mold the shell or liner first still remains—any insights on than? I’m going to need some additional volume above the instep, on the outside of my midfoot, and in the toebox, but not a massive amount.

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

My question of whether to mold the shell or liner first still remains—any insights on than? I’m going to need some additional volume above the instep, on the outside of my midfoot, and in the toebox, but not a massive amount.

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I think you'll get better results if you heat mold the shell first with cold liners, then do the liners separately.

Just heat the shell. A 250d F shell will have more than enough heat to adiquatly mold the liners too.

Quick (probably dumb) question, I have a pair of the Hawx Ultra XTD and a pair of Carbon Backland for trips that would include some climbing and more walking than I want to do in the Ultra XTD. I recently picked up a pair of Pro-Tour liners. Both shells are size 26 and appear to fit similar except for the taller cuff of the Ultra XTD.

Am I dreaming that I can swap the liners back and forth between the two pairs of boots? If it'll work, which one do you bake the liners in?

Hello, folks. I’m looking at the XTD series for a one-boot quiver. I probably get 15-20 days/yr in-70% on-resort, very little on-piste. I’m a snow snob and usually only ski relatively soft days. Touring is a mix between quick laps on the local small hill and Cascade volcanos in the spring. I’m 5-10 200lbs in my gear with pretty large calves. I like to ski hard but I’m not jumping cliffs or running 40+ mph often. I’ll ski pretty much any terrain. I’m currently on BD Primes (~85flex) driving K2 Pinnacle 105.

I’m looking at the XTD 120 vs 130. I know the 120 is more resort oriented and the 130 is more touring. I have the ability to buy a second liner (Intuition) for whatever boot I get so I can have a touring liner and a resort liner. I just really don’t want a boot that collapses like my Prime does, and I’m guessing both versions of the XTD will be head and shoulders above it in performance. Any suggestions between these two for a single boot to rule them all?