2014/2015 ON3P Skis (Official Thread) - Discussion and Lust

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Not sure, off hand. I'll measure tonight.

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Thanks bud

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Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

186 wrenegades don't like tip driving, or are you talking about 4frnts?

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Where the hell did you get that idea? Chicken didn't even mention Wrens. He was talking about Caylors mounted on the line.

186 Wrens most certainly require tip driving.

Ah ok. He mentioned "Rens"

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I'm definitely happy on the line.

I'm slightly curious how they would feel at -1 cause the tips are just ever so slightly more hooky than I'd like, but definitely not curious enough to actually put another set of holes in them.

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I like the line on them...and I like -1cm. Any farther back than that is a no.

FWIW when I skied 191 Caylors I had them mounted at -3 and -4 (redrilled). I loved them there and did not like the ski as much at recommended. For the Jeffrey 122 we took that into account and they are perfect on the line now in case anyone is wondering.

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Fair point. I still knock back rainier from time to time. I just ousted my 184 piste jibs in favor of 182 4frnt turbos. Didn't see that move coming until I borrowed a pair from a friend and skied them back to back. Proof in the pudding. If i do get another set of PJs I'll go medium (not med stiff) and mount on the dimple (not at -1)

Re: caylor.

100% a mount point issue. I fortunately have demo clamps on them and on a whim, tried them at - 2 of the recommended line after I had hit too many rocks with my BG to make the edges behave on groomers. Just a quick car swap, like whatever, might as well try them.

I LOVE the way the ski at minus 2. LOVE them.

I have not mastered the art of skiing upright-ish from the ball of my foot. I suck at that. I just didn't like the 186 Ren. I like tip driving. I like skis that can accommodate tip driving.

At -2, these respond perfectly to that approach. Great float, great stability at speed (soft or firm groomers and pow) very easy to slip the tails out in tight spaces. I was able to carry significantly more speed into the bumps without having to rally over the top of the terrain. On my BG, I have to shut it down pretty hard to keep it from raging out of my control in the bumps. Admittedly, I'm an avg or below Avg skier within this community, but management in tight spaces is a huge advantage to the caylor. Groomers at 40-50 mph feel perfectly stable. I actually liked the flat base on rails more than I thought I would. Switch is a clear win for the caylor as well.

For me it's a different ski at -2. I had the same epiphany after remounting my protests.

Bad news is that my quiver is going to stay bloated as all get out because I don't want to sell the Caylors anymore.

Maybe the goats are destined for a second mount with beasts. Caylors for in bounds soft days.

First world problems.

And even though I haven't had turbos on my feet for that many days, my caylor experience makes me wonder if I'd prefer the kartel 106 in a 186 at -2 of recommended. But Scott hasn't responded to my log winded email just yet.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

186 Wrens most certainly require tip driving.

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Nothing truer has been stated in this thread ;)

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Originally Posted by PowTron

FWIW when I skied 191 Caylors I had them mounted at -3 and -4 (redrilled). I loved them there and did not like the ski as much at recommended. For the Jeffrey 122 we took that into account and they are perfect on the line now in case anyone is wondering.

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What about the 13.14 186 Jeffrey (110)?

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Originally Posted by PowTron

I like the line on them...and I like -1cm. Any farther back than that is a no.

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Can you elaborate? These are not my powder skis, if it's deep I'm pulling out the BG's anyway - so I assume on the line?

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Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

186 wrenegades don't like tip driving, or are you talking about 4frnts?

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Couldn't speak to the "wrens". However, the "rens" (4frnt renegade) don't do anything I ask when I rail the tips. They have this super narrow sweet spot that a lot of people love. I'm not one of them. Never actually skied the "wren." But once I'm on a ski that skinny, I'm usually looking to play around a bit and the "wren" has never been billed as a playful ski. When it's firm, I'm not out to rage the hardpack, I'm out to try to improve my limited park skills and get better in the air.

So while I love both the BG and the caylor, I doubt I will ever own the wren.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

What about the 13.14 186 Jeffrey (110)?

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Dude, just looking at the current mount, knowing the way you ski makes me think you should remount those a little bit back.

^^It's crossed my mind for sure, but as someone who loved the center mount of the 4FRNT Ren, I just don't know that I need more tip out in front of me. I'll probably mount those Piste Jibs at the dimple, then mount up some old 191 Wrens I have laying around and do a comparo between the Wrens, Piste Jibs, and Jeffreys.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Chicken - Where did that -2 caylors mount end up being for you? How far from true center?

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Attachment 163039
Attachment 163040

Dude, I'm confused now. I think the demo clamps must have been mounted forward of the recommended line. The toe piece is set to 290, the heel piece to 330. When I put them both back to 310, it looks way fwd of the dimple. But looking at the above photo, boot center and the vertical dimple are basically the same spot. That's with them set at 290 and 330 or presumed -2. Boot center looks like it's on the dimple at that setting.

Closer look:
Attachment 163046
Attachment 163047

Boot center is at the 5. So boot center is 2mm behind the dimple. Also lines up perfectly with the 101.5 mark. Dimple is at 101.3 with my tape. It would be more accurate if I unmounted them and used a template.

Straight tape pull (over the clamps) is 192.
90.5 cm from the tail.
101.5 cm from the tip.

192/2 = 96. So -5.5 from true center.

Skis great there. Looks like I was +1.8cm of recommended before. No wonder I hated it.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

^^It's crossed my mind for sure, but as someone who loved the center mount of the 4FRNT Ren, I just don't know that I need more tip out in front of me. I'll probably mount those Piste Jibs at the dimple, then mount up some old 191 Wrens I have laying around and do a comparo between the Wrens, Piste Jibs, and Jeffreys.

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For you, my money is on the wrens. If I'm right, maybe I'll get in the wood veneer Jeffrey market.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

What about the 13.14 186 Jeffrey (110)?

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These are tough to come by.

If anyone's sitting on a pair in big boy length let me know and I'll throw some money at you.

Thanks, appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by PowTron

FWIW when I skied 191 Caylors I had them mounted at -3 and -4 (redrilled). I loved them there and did not like the ski as much at recommended. For the Jeffrey 122 we took that into account and they are perfect on the line now in case anyone is wondering.

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So the Jeff 122 dimple/line is at -4? I was at -3.5 when I was struggling to like the caylor. Much happier at -5.5. Does that mean that if I get grizzlycorn Jeff 122s, that I should use the dimple or go back?

Is powtron a tip driver or do you ride centered and flick from the ball of your foot?

Chicken, you snag those out of their demo fleet? I got some 181 Caylors that have that same issue; using the demo heels/toes at 310mm puts my boot center wayyyyy forward. It's like they mounted the bindings for 330BSL or something.

that's kinda funny Chicken. kind of makes sense that i liked them and you didnt (im a ~325 BSL). now im trying to avoid thinking about where i mounted mine. maybe ill even ski them some day.

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Originally Posted by cstefanic

Chicken, you snag those out of their demo fleet? I got some 181 Caylors that have that same issue; using the demo heels/toes at 310mm puts my boot center wayyyyy forward. It's like they mounted the bindings for 330BSL or something.

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Yup. Good to hear it's not just me. Demo bindings are just fine. I could see remounting with jester pros where I like them since it seems like I'm going to keep them now.

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Originally Posted by shroom

that's kinda funny Chicken. kind of makes sense that i liked them and you didnt (im a ~325 BSL). now im trying to avoid thinking about where i mounted mine. maybe ill even ski them some day.

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Yeah. Makes sense. Bring them out on a barely soft day, dude. No problem on firm snow.

Took the new Jeffrey 114s out today for the first time. They are awesome! Can't wait to ski these a ton. Big thanks to Powtron for answering all my questions and for hosting demos.

Attachment 163100

I got a park lap on 186 kartel 98s today. That grizzlycorn topsheet is something else. Thanks to rowen for the opportunity. Nice on the rail, buttery but not fragile nose. Quick edge to edge. Stable, playful. Good feel switch.

Would love to rally them through some bumps and take them on an all mountain outing where I could see how the softer flex deals with crud.

But first impressions were great. I would love a pair of these or the 106. I'm not ashamed to admit how awesome the GC topsheet is.

Prob still going to mount my turbos and use them. But...I was very impressed and I would very much like a pair.

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Originally Posted by telechuck

Took the new Jeffrey 114s out today for the first time. They are awesome! Can't wait to ski these a ton. Big thanks to Powtron for answering all my questions and for hosting demos.

Attachment 163100

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Is this the std topsheet for the Jeff 114?

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

I got a park lap on 186 kartel 98s today. That grizzlycorn topsheet is something else. Thanks to rowen for the opportunity. Nice on the rail, buttery but not fragile nose. Quick edge to edge. Stable, playful. Good feel switch.

Would love to rally them through some bumps and take them on an all mountain outing where I could see how the softer flex deals with crud.

But first impressions were great. I would love a pair of these or the 106. I'm not ashamed to admit how awesome the GC topsheet is.

Prob still going to mount my turbos and use them. But...I was very impressed and I would very much like a pair.

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Skied mine in the sun today at xtal. with detuned tips and tails they were great fun.

Powtron- what's the word on demo days in the upcoming months in CO? Either at a super pass or epic pass resort would be nice...

Itching to finally try the BGs for a spin