Depends what you mean by bumps and how you ski them.
I was talking about steep big bumps, skied zipper style, ie turning at every bump.
Taking the same bumps at speed, making medium radius turns, easier.
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Depends what you mean by bumps and how you ski them.
I was talking about steep big bumps, skied zipper style, ie turning at every bump.
Taking the same bumps at speed, making medium radius turns, easier.
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I use my 191 M4 Mantras for the biggest, funkiest bumps I can find. I love that type of stuff and the M4s are my specific mogul skis. That n pow are really the only places where that greasyness of full rocker wins me over.
I don’t think the K108s will be as good for skiing fast through funk bumps, but they will be more stable for me everywhere else.
Yeah, i got some atomic maverick 95s to ski big bumps after being on katanas exclusively for the last 8 years, even in the backcountry I'm on vwerks katanas.
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I really didn't get on with the 184 Katana 108 mounted near the most forward line (accidently, the lines are confusing and we were trying to avoid hole conflict). The tail was very punishing and the ski lacked tip length. I generally prefer a true traditional mount, -10 to -12 cm from true centre.
Anyone else had a similar experience? Wondering if it is the ski not jiving with my style or just the mount.
I didn't like the forward mount either.
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Finally got the Katana 108s in some small to medium sized moguls. They performed well, better than I expected. Tips are a bit wide but I’m used to that now. I need some ptex, but now I know these are keepers.
I have been skiing a black diamond groomer a lot lately (early season), and I do feel the 3D radius is slightly more unpredictable at very high speeds. Especially when compared back to back with Pro Riders. I think at 60mph I don’t have as much control over which part of the sidecut I’m engaging. These definitely don’t replace the Supercharger skis in my quiver.
Here’s the rub in the K108 vs LP105 comparison…you have to do the 191 vs 192 to make it “fair”. You can get a 170, 177, or 184 K108. A 184 K108 has amazing versatility compared to the LP. Ask cstefanic how his 184’s felt at 70+ MPH. [emoji6]
Where are you lacking control of the sidecut... tips or tails?Quote:
Originally Posted by Velomayniac
I played with mount point and for me I liked +1cm... partly because on the line I felt like the tip was controlling the turn shape but at +1 it felt neutral... to me.
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Idk honestly, maybe underfoot? Feels like that tighter part of the 3D radius wanting to engage. I’ve read about this trait on Blister and on here, and was afraid of it, but I only notice it at ridiculously high speeds on the smoothest of terrain. I’ve heard the older Mantra 102s don’t do this, I want to try that slightly longer radius underfoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
Normally I don’t ski smooth conditions/terrain, more cruddy and chunky off piste and I’m a mogul seeker.. So I’m not too worried about it after trying them off piste. They just won’t be my Mammoth skis, but will be great at Palisades where I ski most.
I was afraid these weren’t going to be good off piste, and then that slight uneasiness I had at my highest speed was really starting to make me think about selling them. But nope, I really like them in medium sized moguls.
Finally got my k108s out in some very warm noontime juneuary corn at alpine. Was shooting for a mount on the rear line and ended up about 0.5cm forward of that. Feels great there. No detune yet. I’m 6’ 185#, 335bsl resort boot (yeah, I have big feet).
These skis really surprised me, although I guess they shouldn’t have after everything written here and on blister.
First of all, mid day heavy skied out corn is insanely fun on these skis. Way more than I thought. I didn’t go into this wanting a heavy corn crusher but they made it so fun, I think I might need that in my life. The faster you go, the more fun they are. I think I just love heavy, metal, stiff, damp skis.
What really surprised me is how hard they rail turns. Harder than my kendo 88s or m102s. I see why all these reviews compare them to the m102. I never expected something wider to be less drifty. It really makes me wonder when I would pick either over the other…and I really love the m102. The kendo I’ve always found to be kinda plain vanilla but I sure didn’t expect the k108 to be the ski that finally let me post them to gear swap!
Curious about how they will perform as a winter soft snow charger. Need more days in more conditions before I can be clear on if and where they have a place in my quiver. Could they be the modern replacement for my beloved 187 XXLs and the heavy metal replacement for my surprisingly fun/versatile 192 UL GPOs (pretty doubtful there)?
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What length are you on? I ask because there is a big difference in my experience between the 184 and 191. The 184 is really a "fat" mantra, which is okay, but it's a far cry from the 187 XXL with it's 37-m radius. The 3D sidecut of the K108 is a bit of a positive and negative. The positive being that they are so capable inbounds, with that tighter radius under foot. The negative being that they aren't quite as loose in deeper snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
Glad you have enjoyed them so far. Looking forward to your longer terms thoughts.
I’m on the 184…
So we officially got 1-6” today, but KT and headwall had pockets that were skiing like 18”.
Grabbed a couple runs on the k108s before work. Except for in the most blown in pockets, most people were still getting through to our icy old snow surface.
Let’s be honest, these conditions are fun. They’re not ideal, but it kinda doesn’t matter what you’re on. Yer gonna have a good time...yet that old snow surface is still going to keep you on your toes.
The K108s felt composed. I could turn them just fine, even in the 8-10” over large icy moguls (where I was probably happy to be on the 184 vs 191). When they bit down into the icy layer they would behave well. Very reliable.
…I probably need to A/B them with the others but I’m not sure they come alive quite as much. I kinda think both the XXLs and GPOs would be nearly as composed but a little more surfy good times…but maybe I would have gotten bucked more 🤷♂️
All good fun, I just don’t imagine I need all 3 of these skis so trying to figure out where to thin hahah.
…and now of course I’m feeling very 192 mfree 108 and 188 Countach 110 curious…
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Yeah that's where I am. <humblebrag> I'm fortunate to have, well, all of them - VW Katana 111, K108, M102, M6 and I just picked up some Kendos.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
Who TF needs all of those?! Almost embarrassing, but I'm a admitted gear whore (hoarder), and a proper addict that will ski in any snow condition.
I think the original M102 was the closest thing to the holy grail, but I sold those to get the K108 because I thought there was too much overlap ... now only to end up with the whole lineup. The new M102 is good, but not as magical as the OG. These days I'm more focused on having a ski that is wide enough for the conditions but no wider because apparently the warranty on my knees has expired.
I'm thinking of shedding the K108. It's a great ski, but the new M102 is close enough, and I have the VWerks at the fat end.
Curious about the "vanilla" comments of the Kendo though. I expect them to be a narrower M6, but with less top end (largest Kendo is 184 versus 191 in everything else), but better for my knees at low tide.
I have a few days on the 2022 184 Kendo and vanilla is a good description, especially in comparison to the M6. I actually think the M6 has better edge hold and is more eager to get into a turn. Also, the radius combo makes the Kendo ski looser, despite the narrower waist width. That being said, you can relax on the Kendo a bit more and ski more leisurely whereas the M6 yearns to get after it, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by YoEddy
I have the Kendo 184 2022 model too. My sentiments are the same as Bandit Man. And I’ve taken them out of my lineup since my M6s do everything better.
I also have both the K108 and the OG M102. If I had to pick just two for all conditions it would be the K108 and the M6.
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Appreciating the comparisons. I’m finding the combination of my M6s and VW Katanas handle the range of usual conditions as well as I could hope, but I often wonder about what I’d gain from the rest of the Volkl lineup.
I was thinking something similar to this yesterday. Except I don’t think I can unload my OGm102s. Really enjoy those. New bonafide and mfree 108 would be an interesting combo also.Quote:
Originally Posted by swissbro
As long as by “all conditions” we mean from 0 up to around a foot. This is TGR. Nothing less than 120 on deep days [emoji869]
That said, there was a lot of great new soft snow yesterday. Report was 8” but it was skiing above boot top in many places. Skied many laps on KT and Granite and the k108 was a hoot. Very stable at speed and very fun in everything from completely untracked to soft mogul smashing. Plenty easy to turn. Not much float but kinda fun to be IN the snow especially now that the icy base is almost gone. Cutting through soft chop at speed is really, really fun in these skis.
But today it’s snowing up to 4” per hour for much of the day. K108s are getting benched. Out come the protests [emoji16]
That is my third ski in my lineup if I had to pick three.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
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On the OG M102 quiver spot, if you are fond of that ski, don’t sell it. The OG is a special ski that works well in a broad spectrum of conditions and performs at the highest levels yet is pretty easy to manage most of the time. I’m a fan of the more tame, newer version, but it’s almost more of a wider M6. The OG is just a cruise missile that tames big mountain terrain. I like the new version at my smaller local resort but prefer the OG at places like Whistler Blackcomb. Of course the K108 works well there, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
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Yeah I love the OG 102 and can’t imagine selling it at this point regardless of what else is in the quiver. The one thing I might do is move the mount point forward to +1. I had them mounted on the line for a BSL on my old boots that was 7mm shorter (seems technica bsls expanded over the years). So now I’m 3.5mm behind the line and that kinda feels like the wrong direction on that ski.
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Is the 177, like the 184, like a wider Mantra? Asking for a friend
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Wow did I have a good time on this ski at kicking horse over the weekend. Conditions were up to 2 feet of pretty light pow over a mix of hard and soft crust. I really felt like this was the ideal ski everywhere except when I had to make jump turns in steep couloirs filled with deep snow where they felt quite heavy (and when my legs were too tired for high speed big moguls).
Edit to be clear: they don’t really float at all compared to my GPOs or similar but they are really fun to drive hard through deep snow and maintain a surprising amount of maneuverability when submerged. Also they stomp landings…which is very satisfying…
I did feel a little squirrelliness when I would pressure the tips on high speed groomers. This would go away with a more mid foot stance. Is this the 3D sidecut not being able to figure out if it’s at 40 or 19 meters? Is this what people are fixing with de-tuning?
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Hmm…”squirrelliness” is not something I have experienced on high speed groomers…as long as the ski was on edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
Were you running bases flat?
I agree... no squireiless for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
Where did you mount them?
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^ I suspect so. The wobble is more pronounced in the M102, and doesn't happen at all on my M5 (no 3D radius). Getting on edge a bit makes it go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
Ended up at around +1 when using my touring boots (all I had on this trip was my scarpa Quattro XT). Definitely noticed a difference even with skis on edge between mid foot stance (stable and solid) vs standing on balls of feet and pressuring the shins (felt like it was switching between radii). No big deal, just wondering if others noticed.
For a day where you are doing many laps that start in the steep and deep and finish in moguls, cat tracks and groomers, I’m not sure I can imagine a better ski that just crushes all.
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Attachment 488329
Attachment 488330
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Few tip shots for the k108 stoke reel.
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^^^Nice work! The perfect conditions for that ski to shine!
I’m of the same opinion. Over the last couple of years I’ve ridden BC Corvus, OG Cochises and Bodacious, Rustler 11s, and Revolt 114s in similar conditions back to back with my Katanas. None of them for me have the versatility to handle whatever conditions one might find. Just spent the day on the Katanas in the John Paul area at Snow Basin. Tight gullies are a bit more work, but a little extra effort is well rewarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
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These are great spring skis too. They make quick work of terrible refrozen coral reef bumps when you get your sun timing wrong, and they are amazing in slush. Great at speed on groomers too, when nothing else is skiing well.
The more I ski them, the less I notice the “twitchiness” some notice with 3D
Same experience here. I keep grabbing these for any kind of heavy 3D snow whether it’s a wet storm or afternoon over ripe corn. Smash soft bumps or rage through chop. They are just insanely fun to ski hard in heavy conditions where most other skis would be overwhelmed.
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I would prefer a normal, long (27-30m-ish) radius, as well as full low profile rocker like the M4 Mantras or 2011-2014 Katanas.
But these are pretty darn good at blending maneuverability with stability. Not quite as stable as older Katanas, but close. 3D radius makes them pretty much as maneuverable as old Katanas, but cuts into predictability.
Gonna keep them until some full rocker ski replaces them.
Got the M108 184. Coming from a Corvus 188. Thinking the middle line is probably the right move? Thoughts and input? Jester pros will be the choice and skied with xt3 140 and RS/XRi 140.
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Check out the Heritage Lab R105 and R110.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
I went for mid line and regretted it. Would definitely go for the back line.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoVT Joey
Fuck. Even with a 27.5 boot and coming from a -8 mount previously on the Corvus and I got along with it? I even thought about the front line for a second.
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I got some FR110s a couple weeks ago. I skied them some laps in January back to back with Katana 108s and loved them. I want R105s next.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken feathers
I’ve been thinking about adding an M6 Mantra before it’s gone. M7 is scary, entering the 4th dimension.
The 102 is probably a better fit for me, but I want to start expanding the under 100 part of my quiver.
The qualities I enjoy about Katana 108 seem like they’d lend themselves well to a thinner version.
Who here is liking both Katana 108s and M6?
Well that is the man with the feed back I was looking for. The tip softness definitely has me thinking. Normally I never ask, as all of you know. This pair is different. I’m sending the back line. What’s the worst that can happen, I buy another to drill forward?!? [emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvan
And now there are revolt 114s on the way. Fuck.
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I’d stay back. The Corvus and the katana are the same category, obviously, but the Corvus feels like “more” ski and I’d pick it almost every time.
I have some 114 in the quiver but only got one end of season day on them.
Django had a pair of 191 m102 (?) that seemed like a more perfect corn/groomer zoomer than 188 Corvus on the few runs I shared with him. Still thinking about grabbing something similar.