Just wanted to follow up that BD was great in replacing the vipec heels with a pair of Evo.Quote:
Originally Posted by cat in january
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Just wanted to follow up that BD was great in replacing the vipec heels with a pair of Evo.Quote:
Originally Posted by cat in january
So I did more fiddling around and made this video showing the issue I have, link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lm1avg06ya...rakes.m4v?dl=0Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
Specifically, the brake retainer clip can slide. In ski mode that slide is ~10mm, in tour mode that slide is ~30mm. Therein lies the problem. It seems like the slide amount should not change, otherwise the brakes can still come down in tour mode since the clip simply slides backwards with the binding (relative to the base).
I've shown the retainer clip without the full brake assembly, showcasing the amount of "slide" in each position (tour vs. ski). Am I missing a piece? Is something about my installation wrong?
Any help would be appreciated.
Isn't that play mitigated when the top part and the brake arm is in place - aka that the tension from the brakes hold things in place?
is it the spring underneath that is not attached the correct way, or rather the retainer thingy that protrudes from underneath that doesn't stay in place when the rest of the assembly slides back (in effect tensioning the spring instead of locking the assembly)? If my thinking is correct there should be some play in skiing position - aka what makes the brakes deploy - but very little to none in the aft position - aka what locks the brakes, but still enable you one to stomp down to get the brakes into the locked position. If the retaining/protruding piece does not function like I am thinking that it should, the symptom would be the kind of play you are showing.
Sadly I am nowhere near my Vipecs, so can't compare, and my reasoning might be 100% off from how the brakes actually work (again, can't see how mine functions).
I am somewhat following, but to be honest, I'm not really sure since I only have the pieces I was given when I bought the Vipecs. I'm wondering if I'm missing some piece (aka a spring) - I don't have a spring except the actual heel release spring which doesn't seem to affect the brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
But yes I would assume the functionality is basically that the retainer clip always stays in place and the brakes move aft when in touring mode which thereby locks them in (if the brakes are depressed by a boot).
I only had the plastic bits shown with the brake In addition to screws, the toe piece, heal piece, and the optional plastic color pieces.Attachment 260715Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
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You're not missing a spring. It's 2 plastic parts, the brake and 2 screws. We're talking about the Blacks, right? I don't see the screw holes on the stomp pad in your photo. Probably 'coz I'm viewing on a tiny screen.
The instructions are pretty obscure. I may have some links to videos or other media stored on my hard drive. If I find any, I'll post them.
... Thom
FYI I am working with the Vipec Blacks which are the 3rd? generation I believe. The one before the latest Evo series. I believe these brakes are the latest Evo-series style stomp pad and retainer clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff And Or
My bad. They are for the vipec Evo 12. Sorry for any confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
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i am talking about the main spring underneath the binding, not a separate spring. Again, I do not have any Vipecs close at hand, and just tried to think what could cause the issue based on photos of the binding online.
All of those parts are molded plastic, and are probably as they are supposed to be. As such, I noticed that you could see the spring underneath the binding in your video, and as such thought that "hey, perhaps the spring has some function in the brake assembly when stomping down" as that seemed to make sense. Again, if I had had some Vipecs close at hand I would have posted some videos of how the three parts looked on mine and how the brakes worked, but again, I cannot. Aka that this part should slide all the way to the front, in the hole, but does not:
Attachment 260737
aka that the protruding bits in the yellow square is supposed to slide forward into the blue square. That might be wrong.
As such, I am trying to trouble shoot why that is not occurring, again without being able to look at how mine functions. I might be 100% off, and it might just be tension and friction that are supposed to lock the brakes, but it might not be.
Mounting instruction - you seem to be mounting them correct, that is - i cannot understand how mounting them wrong even is an option.
https://www.wildsnow.com/11228/mount...ritschi-vipec/
I'm on crappy coffee shop wifi so your vid won't load.
I remember one time I installed my brakes and it sounds like I had the same problem where the brakes wouldn't store (I don't use them anymore so it was a while ago). If I remember right it was just a matter of making sure that the sliding part correctly interfaces with those two nubs that are in the red box in the post above. There was a way to install it where those nubs don't push on the right surface to move the brake storage clip go back and forwards enough BUT it will go together and push it a little.
I have the pre black ones and the brake retention clip looks a little different but same in the surfaces that interface with those red box nubs.
With the Blacks, not storing means you've adjusted the heel beyond the recommended extreme. I don't know how this translates to the Evo.
... Thom
I checked mine, same behavior shown in your video. I've had no issues with unwanted deployment, so I don't think that sliding is the issueQuote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
That is actually very useful and good to know! I did not know that. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Ask me how i learned this ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
I seem to recall it's when you go past the limit in the direction of a smaller BSL.
... Thom
May or may not be relevant, but they just replaced my vipec black heels with Evo and just moved the old brakes over so brakes are compatible.
Ok I realized I'm an idiot. Nothing wrong with the brakes, I just wasn't putting it fully into touring mode by locking the white piece all the way down.
ahaha!
Kudos on you for coming clean and living up to you nick ;)
Price police on vipec blacks used about 5 days?
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I just paid 300 shipped for a pair, they had extra brakes and crampons howeverQuote:
Originally Posted by slowroastin
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Thanks, I’m looking at a pair attached to skis I don’t need for $350ishQuote:
Originally Posted by Teenaged
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Question about release directions. This is a Lindahl inspired post. I’ve experienced a tib/fib due to a stuffed tip.
Typical Alpine Toe: horizontal release
Typical Alpine Heel: vertical release
Characteristics: does handle going ‘over the handle bars’ w/ vertical release at heel. Does not handle backseat implosions because no horizontal release.
Result —> shredded knee ligaments, avoided broken tib/fib.
Typical Touring Toe: no release
Typical Touring Heel (pins): horizontal release
Characteristics: does not handle going over the handle bars because no vertical release at heel and toe stays locked. Does handle backseat implosions because horizontal release at heel.
Result —> saves knees, breaks bones
Vipec/Tecton: horizontal toe release
Vipec Heel: horizontal release
Tecton Heel: vertical release
The Tecton arrangement mirrors alpine (toe horizontal, heel vertical). But the Vipec is unique — heel and toe release horizontally. What does horizontal/horizontal do in the Results section therefore? It has ACL protection at the heel, but does it still release in stuff tip situations?
^ Not entirely accurate.
- Virtually all tech heels have both horizontal and vertical release, with exception of some u-spring ultralight race heels that only have vertical release. The tib/fib thing happens because the heel release isn't as clean and consistent as alpine, and twisting out at the toe might not happen in time even if the heel has released.
- Vipec does not have horizontal heel release; their release directions are same as Tecton and alpine bindings.
Vipec heels release vertically. Evo is slightly different than black, there's a wild snow article showing the pin mechanism exposed. Watched a buddy release in a tip stuff scenario yesterday.
What 1000-oaks said.
Every time I feel the pull of a 300g binder, I remind myself of the stuffed tip scenario and am happy with my decision to go with Vipec.
If I ever do a fatty again, it will most likely receive Tectons. I don't break binders (famous last words), so there's no need for Shifts/Cast on a dedicated powder ski (for me).
... Thom
I released a few times on my g3 ions after stuffing the tip into something.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I think it's because it's never 100 percent straight in. Most of the time you stuff your ski tips, the skis are at a bit of an angle to the force, so you release anyway.
I can't see the tecton or marker adding anything to safety.
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The Vipec doesn't release horizontally at the heel.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
I'm not entirely sold on this line of thinking. Also, there are some forces that cause the heel to never release at all to begin with, so consistency of release as the heel starts rotating doesn't really matter in those cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
From my experience and testing, the lack of a heel release has entirely to do with where the forces are applied. If they're near the toepiece, it's quite possible for the binding to not release and a tib/fib or twisted ankle to be the result. If you want to know more, look at the following link. I made a video that illustrates the problem. There's also a link to a Wildsnow article talking about this same issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...iamir-vipec-12
I'm in the same boat. I go with the Vipec for my deep snow ski that I use when I'm skiing hard. Though, for firm snow and mellow meadow skipping in powder, I'm a big fan of the 110g-350g bindings.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I just got a pair of the vipec evos new from BD and they have the "old" bumper style that will dent the toe. Anyone get one that has the improved bumper? Skied them today and they are remarkably solid feeling.
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Re the vipec vertical release. My alpine heels are at 9.5ish. I had my vipecs at 9. I planted my tips in a creek pretty hard. I expected to eject, but I did not. I was pretty lucky I did not break bones. Following that, I tried popping out of the skis and it seemed the skis would break before vipecs let go. I dialed back and tried ejecting until I got to 6. I been skiing them at 6 for a few years, and I never pre-released.
Jtlange have you tried hitting up BD? They kind of messed up my replacement, but in the process I interacted a bit and were always super responsive. Give them a call tomorrow. ext. 5
Flowy, how much different do think tecton feels vs vipec?
Toes are up at my regular 9 and release as they should.
Dunno personally I can't really tell the vipec heel from an alpine heel. I can't imagine what the tectons offers. Maybe because I am 150 lbs.
Same. I run Vipecs and Tectons at 8 early season then go to 9 as season wears on. I accidentally left a Vipec heel at 6 (my bad - mounted my own bindings) and pre-released all over the place in deep pow which led to much diggingQuote:
Originally Posted by daught
FYI, there are Vipec Evo toes that have the updated bumper. Called BD today to confirm. They said they are a few days behind on warranty claims right now I assume due to the holiday.
ditto, I'm super impressed with how the viper's feel railing carves and turns inbounds, even in chop...it was something I was not expecting at allQuote:
Originally Posted by daught
Only a few pounds more than you but in later day inbounds I can feel the lack of elasticity, but for 80% of the day I'm good.Quote:
Originally Posted by daught
Also fun little thing that I figured out last night practicing my transitions for a local skimo race. You don't actually have to put the binding into "tour" mode (and have the heel unit slide back) if you just flip the first riser. Of course it's far from flat, but for beer league racing it's nice to be able to gain a few spots just from a faster transition to make up for my lack of acclimatization.
I am encountering a heel problem on Vipecs- not sure which gen. Maybe 3?
I have insta teled a few times, and when I check the heel, there is a significant gap. The last time, I skied out in that condition, put it on the bench to try and sort it out. As I cycled the binding fore and aft on the track, it did not move smoothly, with a bit of flex and grabbiness at the junction with the brake.
What I think happened is the ski flexed, pushing the binding back, and it failed to return. I lubed the tracks with white lithium, cycled it up and down the track. So far, so good. But, that doesn't tell me much, as this problem is rare and intermittent.
Any thoughts as to the actual cause, and best prevention? I do, occasionally have issues where the brake opens while touring. Could this be a brake insallation issue causing the heel to snag when returning forward?
Something similar happened with me. I filed a claim with BD. I listed the place I bought them and the approximate time, but I did not have the receipt handy (think I had it someplace). BD was great in replacing them with Evo heels. Lot better to get it right then mess around in the BC.
I am in the process of making some toe shims for the Evo (3D printing now for fit check before machining). I was curious to if anyone has a picture of the toe shims that are available look like. Im just a bored engineer with time and tools on his hands, not going to be making them commercially so I wont be ripping off the design. Just wondering if they are doing something I am not thinking of right now.
It can be as simple a flat piece of HDPE or metal with 4 holes in it...
No need to enginerd it, eyeball FEA + speedholes will do ya fine.