how much elevation and length you got to play with?Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
I'd love a machine to dig with. Imagine how much you'll be getting done with a big bucket on the digger
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how much elevation and length you got to play with?Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
I'd love a machine to dig with. Imagine how much you'll be getting done with a big bucket on the digger
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I dont think so. The heavy equipment is just there to move dirt quickly and do some really rough shaping. And if you totally blow a line and have to redo it, remember that you are doing this in the fall and that come springtime NO ONE will be able to tell where you screwed up the line- the forest is real quick to take things back fall-spring because of the leaves and then rapid growth in the spring. You can also stockpile good dirt, or rocks with the machine for handbuilding later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Also remember that everything settles and shrinks, especially over winter so build those berms big! it easy to shave them down later on, but a real PITA to have to throw more dirt on them by hand and slap compact with shovels. And only assholes have said "gosh, that berm was just too big. I prefer smaller, less supportive berms".
Lastly, I think that an underutilized trail feature on slower, tech trails with berms is little side hips into berms, and then the ability to kind of pump the berm and jump out of them onto a roller. Slower speed pumping, popping kind of lines. YMMV.
Good Luck! Sounds like its gonna be sick!
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Also, if possible, get it roughly shaped and ride it before the machine leaves. If it's the wrong shape or in the wrong place, it's nice to know that while you still have the ability to move a lot of dirt quickly and easily.
I haven't even scouted the lines yet. Not a hell of a lot of vert, but enough to put a few in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossymcg
My biggest concern is drainage. With our lack of vert, we tend to use as much as possible and flip it back uphill to go back down again. Back a while ago I saw a nice article on slope geometry when building berms. I cannot find it now.
And yeah, I always ride the lines as we build. I run them first, rake, ride, then make more changes. I build with a guy who does not do that and it kinda drives me nuts, but he's so chill and works so damn hard that I don't really care. Plus he always says just go back and make it better. :) Zero ego.
No shame in that at all, thats a good builder. Lots of shame in leaving shit that doesnt work on "your trail" because you cant be bothered to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Obviously depends on the specific location, but sometimes it's easiest to just run a drain pipe under/through the berm.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Depending on your soil and climate, sometimes using the machine to dig a big dry well on the uphill/inside of the berm can work too.
Yeah, was thinking like a french drain at the low point.
Being able to import or easily move rock, and bring in drain pipe should go a long way into addressing drainage issues. Dealing with that shit when you're hauling stuff in by hand is a lot harder.
We went back in and removed some drainage from a trail to make the berms work better and it seems to be fine. But we don't get much rain and the ground in that specific spot drains quickly. Plus it's not a huge deal if there's a little water or mud down in the inside. We did put in one actual drain pipe but I wonder if that's just going to wind up getting clogged up after a few years.
Yeah, I find the entrance to the pipes needs to get cleaned out every few years. A big diameter (6 or 8"), non corrugated pipe helps. And stacking rock and gravel around the entrance to try to keep the sludge at bay helps too. And shaping the area so the water runs quickly and doesn't just build into a mucky puddle that slowly trickles through the pipe. But they still need occasional clean outs, regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal
Assorted Kinda random machine tips.
Get out and look. Things look way different from the machine than ground level. You can get tricked into thinking the machine is sitting level and build off of that, when actually it's sitting at a slight angle. Hop out, visually 'ride' the line, get downhill and get your head level with the trail.
Build it first, drain it later. If you have pipes, dig a sump hole at the mouth and dig down so there is a collection basin to collect silt. If you are not using pipes, the crux move is tapering the berm so it drains out the bottom but still provides support. It's easy to build up the berm too much at the top of the turn, think about providing support against the natural fall line of the trail. If you can drive the machine around the corner smoothly you prob got it right. It's good to put in a grade reversal before and after corners to keep water out of your corner.
Use the angle of repose. Everyone want to build super sick, super steep, instagram berms, but those fall apart and get that overhanging wave feature after a while. Get the radius right, you can literally take a section of rope and mark a radius, and let the berm choose its own steepness based on angle of repose of the materials available. It's may look kinda flat but it's gonna be durable.
Roll a fatty.. a fatbike is a huge help for getting a feel for a section while it's still off soft and rough from the machine. Also great for compaction after some moisture to a finished trail.
Don't be afraid to say that sucks and go back up and redo it. Crap trail sucks!
the dirt in my local woods is perfect and 12" below is pure sand. we can have a monsoon and it ready to ride straight away how we've designed the drainage.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
I dig a sump in side some of the berms to collect water for sculpting the lips and berms
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Right on! And yeah, I often say my trail sucks and go back and reroute! :smile: It really sucks when the reroute sucks ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rip
Don't fear the magical mini x. You can think it and then make it happen. It's so much fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Well, I guess this belongs here, though it's pretty WTF for a tool video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kd5...6faU6dRumpBQQU
I laughed.
Seems neat, probably not for heavy use but yeah I'd love to try that out for occasional work farther away from a road.
Awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
It’s a kickstarter project
https://www.trailbuildingtools.com/
Carrying the whole “system” in your pack is a bit of a stretch. Savings comes from interchangeable, collapsible handles.
Good luck to ‘em
spent some hours on a new trail but been grave digging so no real chance of a photo in the dark. Berm today though a left hander in to the 1st little table, to a right hand shark fin to left hand catch berm on to a drop(where my pals skinning up) to a right hand berm spitting you on to table, left right berms to a step up.
probably about 40 man hours to get this section done. It flow well and feels funkyAttachment 346673Attachment 346674
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Nice work!
I've been out a couple nights this week cleaning out drains before a couple storms move in this weekend. It's about time, we've only had noticeable rain once or twice here since March and not enough to be able to do any digging.
you can have some of our rain, whats your dirt like with so little rain?Quote:
Originally Posted by evdog
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Kudos. That looks super fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossymcg
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Ours is powdah dirt. Non packable and just horrible. Where some trails punch straight up a little pitch it erodes terribly with a lack of rain. I try my best to really think about sustainability when building new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossymcg
Lots of loose sand and moon dust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossymcg
you'd give your kids away for my dirt. It's truly amazing. Its always damp but never soggy
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Been using the prototypes for over a year now, I love these tools. Incredibly fast to deploy and put away. I have a TrailBoss also which is a great tool but I hate assembling it and tearing it down especially with rolling maintenance, your not gonna skip a section cause it’s not worthy of putting the tool together anymore. Built a fair amount of serious trail with these tools. Full disclosure I’m buddy’s with the guy running this company, that said having spent a ton of time with these tools I’m sold, I ordered 3 handles and a bunch of headsQuote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
Cool [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeBC
Just another mudhole
Many hands helped dumb down the Greenland Glory mudhole with lots of rocks and dirt
Pic 1. Put a Pile Rocks Here sign. The pile grew quickly over the week
Pic 2. Scooped water out of the hole ( it was a good 40cms deep
Pic 3. Dug out a sump on picture right as a low lying area where water could drain. This yielded lots of rock and mineral soil. Then moved the retainer log to the centre of the trail
Pic 4. Started raising the trailbed of the new trail ( now directed more to picture left ). Continued excavating the old hole which is now drained of water.
Pic 5. Used all the rock to completely raise the trailbed which is now almost 40cms higher and raised over the old hole which is now a sump.
Pic 6. Laid mineral soil on top of the rock.
2 people. Approx 2.5 hours of work plus a fair chunk of time spent by others collecting rock for usAttachment 349057Attachment 349058Attachment 349059Attachment 349060Attachment 349061
good stuff, lee!
Never built a climbing trail before. Most of the switchbacks go fine like this one which took approx half hour.
Pic 1. Routed trail over a hump and switchbacks into a mineral soil load. Warehoused soil and rocks. Exposed soil and kept moss intact to place on the side
Pic 2. Harvested more moss from centre. Dug out middle so there's a space to put the warehoused rocks. Continued keeping soil off to side.
Pic3. Finished the exit by flattening the exit hump. Used rocks to crib Apex of turn. Spread soil over entire switchback. Lined turn with the moss that'd been set aside.
Repeat for 22 switchbacks and counting
Attachment 349155Attachment 349156Attachment 349157
Ran into this one switchback on the climbing trail "Deep Green" where you run into a rock like an iceberg. You think it's manageable to use as fill but the more you dig the bigger it gets.
Pic1 S-turn with loamy entryway hump and a pocket of mossy holes right at turn Apex
Pic 2- Start exposing and harvesting moss. Uh oh. It's a big one
Pic3 - dig a hole to China which does result in lots of soil and rock one can use to dumb down the entryway. Seperate rock and soil and drop them at top and bottom of what now is the Mother of all Holes
Pic 4 - After realizing the Iceberg rock ain't going nowhere use the (by now ) rather massive collection of rock and soil you have to build up the turn around the Iceberg rock
Pic 5 - done! 3 hours of work for 1 second of trailAttachment 349159Attachment 349160Attachment 349161Attachment 349162Attachment 349163
Have you used a 6' or bigger digging bar? Those, some gravity, and leverage rocks can work magic with massive boulders.
I do have a massive pry bar. But it wasn't with me that day and I had a massive source of rocks close by. This turned out to be a personal challenge that fortunately worked out wellQuote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Yeah, its brutal to not have all your tools with you and it's just as brutal to get them all out to where you may or may not need them. My stuff is stashed in two different spots at the moment. I buy everything with a fiberglass handle now just so I can leave them without worrying about wood rot.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
Jack. Same here with respect to the fiberglass handles. I have to gps my tool caches as I gave 4 and leave them up in ski season. I've lost stuff before not remembering where they are
Haha! Oh man, me too! What kills me is not losing the tool specifically, but that I'm a littering douchebag! So now I take pictures of where I left them...but when you actually go back and look at the pictures months later...the woods kinda looks the same everywhere around here. [emoji3] Thankfully I haven't lost anything in a few years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
I go back and forth on fiberglass handles vs. wrapping my tool cache in a tarp. Lately I've been going with the tarp, since most of my favorite tools are wood handled. A brown tarp is also good for blending in and being discrete, which I like.
You know your phone records the lat/long of where you took the picture right? Assuming you didn't turn that feature off, go look at the metadata for the pic and navigate to the coordinates.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
This, or use an app like Map Marker to tag the location. It's phone GPS so it will be off a bit but should get you close enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by geomorph