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You -really- don't want to mount off the line with triple camber or other 'jank' sidecuts (RES, etc.). YMMV but you don't want those pockets engaging when they're not supposed to.
And yes, for a more hard snow oriented ski mounting a little further back helps in the conditions. More ski in front, more stable; less tail to get hung up on.
You're one of the mfree guys right? What do you think of the DW104 vs the mfree108? Unfortunately wasn't able to make it to the meet-up but I'm looking at these two for the narrow end of a 2 ski quiver for schwitzerQuote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
I picked up a pair of C98s 182s in the off season and have maybe 20 days on them this year. My "normal" ski is a DW112 190. I mostly ski at Mt. Baker. I've been pretty stoked on this as my inbounds quiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by RadSkier_
I love my DWs for everything from pow to trees to moguls and they are plenty of fun on soft groomers too. But I don't find them super enjoyable when things get super firm or icy. The goal of the C98s was to have a hard charging ski for the bad snow/low tide days.
I love the C98s when the conditions call for it. I find myself reaching for them when I know I won't be spending any time hunting for pow. They have no speed limit and they can carve much harder than my DWs on groomers. Edge hold on ice is way above the DWs. I do find them a bit of a handful on big moguls because they are very stiff, but if I'm in the mood to straight line through chunder, then they are the right ski. I also wouldn't choose them for tight trees. They want to carve more than slarve and they bite back when your form is off. I actually think skiing them has improved my skills a lot. The Deathwishes let you get pretty lazy with your stance and turning.
In summary:
DW112 - More nimble/pivot-y/slarvy. Floats better in pow.
C98 - Go straight through all the things. Leave trenches on the groomers.
Nah, just a dude who loves to ski and happens to really dig the Mfree108.Quote:
Originally Posted by brundo
Deathwish is quicker, lighter and more playful. Less damp not quite as loose. They can charge it’s just that the light weight and lack of dampness makes them less inspiring. They feel like toys. Super fun ski tho!
Mfree108. Feels longer, more damp, more monster truck with some trophy truck fun thrown in. Slower edge to edge yet can still lay trenches. Heavier swing weight. Gets loose much easier.
If you don’t jive with a pretty center mounted ski then Mfree.
Bottom line. If you’re focus is on more playful then DW. If more chargy with some playfulness then Mfree. If money and quiver doesn’t matter then both! I could honestly see both just for fun. If some come up cheap enough I will probably grab a set for the fuck of it.
Yes..x2...this is similar to my thinking upthread.....Quote:
Originally Posted by jslattsbham
My Deathwishes are mounted at the rearmost triangle and I love them there, no strange behavior at all. I think plenty of people mount them slightly forward to be flippy/spinny. There are 5 triangles on the sidewall and if you stay in that range you will be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeMagnet
First day for me on DW104 today.
I'm 5'11", 200 lbs. I ski the DW, DWT and Wildcat in 190cm lengths.
I got a pair of DW 104s in 190cm as well. I mounted on the line with Pivots.
Couple thoughts-
Today was a shitty, dust on crust day. It was in the 40s this week and now it's below freezing with 2 inches of new snow. So, refrozen mank and slop set up hard with dust on top.
I'm very glad I didn't go short. The DW104 are easy and intuitive to turn. I think I would be bummed if I was on the 184 unless I lived on the east coast.
I detuned tails a little and they have the same carve if you want to, pivot if you want to feel of the DW, but they are a little bit stiffer, so it takes a little bit more energy to get them to bend into a tighter turn radius. This also means they are a bit more composed at speed than the regular DW. All in all a good thing for hard snow conditions IMHO.
Edge to edge is way quicker. My DW are mounted with Shifts, my DW 104s are mounted with pivot 12s and are way lighter. They feel very maneuverable.
They are up the shitty snow I was skiing today. They wanted to bend around the chunks of refrozen mank and into bumps when skiing moguls, which absorbed energy and smoothed out the ride.
I sold my "groomer" skis today right after skiing the DW 104 for the first time. There's nothing else I'd rather be on in firm snow for poking around on groomers and in trees and bumps and the mini terrain features of my home mountain.
DW104- turn the mountain into a playground and you can still carve GS turns on hard snow. That's a perfect combo for me for a low tide ski.
After few days on my (regular) Deathwish I think that I will sell my rustler 9 has they overlap. Tahoe is rarely icy and Deathwish are really good for a ski this wide on soft groomers. I just need to get used to carve on the middle of the skis.
I think that the Line blade or Commander 98 could be good complement (two different takes of low tide skis).
The Blade is insanely fun. You wouldn't be disappointed.
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Help me sort out my quiver TGR. I'm lost.
I've basically liquidated all my skis since I felt there was too much overlap and I'm now restarting with just a pair of 184 Deathwish with shifts. The plan is to build out the quiver and use the DW as my touring and pow skis but I don't want to daily the shifts. I also don't want (or really need) a touring ski that is heavier or wider than 112 but on the other hand I do potentially want a resort pow ski that is a bit heavier and wider lol. Maybe I should sell the DW also? I feel no matter what I buy next, they are going to have some overlap with the DW...
For daily duties, I'm thinking about a 190 Wildcat (or maybe a Jeffrey/Woodsman). Should I go 108 or 101 with the WC? Or go ON3P? I ski throughout Utah/Idaho/Tahoe and like the idea of the 101's being a bit more poppy as I love blasting side hits, skiing switch, and once in a blue moon will still take some laps through the park. Since they will be the daily driver though, I also still want some stability, the ability to blast through crud and charge around at high speed; which the 108 will obviously be better at. Any opinions?
The good/bad of the DW is that they are kind swiss-army by design, so they will overlap anything. The nice thing is that they are so versatile, so you don't need to wish for a second ski half way through the day.
I'd go with a big pow ski and use it whenever it snows a few inches or more. Like the WC.
Then get something around 100 with a bit more stiffness than a WC--like maybe the DW104, or something else like a Woodsman, Fischer 102 even.
Kinda in a similar spot to Chunter with reevaluating my skis right now. 160lbs 5'10"
I'm currently skiing with a set of Bonafides, QST 106s, and DPS Koala 119s, all of which feel like pretty 'serious' skis. I'd like to get a more playful ski to replace the QST but that would still cover days with a bit of fresh snow. I ski Stevens Pass mostly and am spending more and more time in the trees jumping off of stuff or hiking the ridge - does the DW 104 seem like it'd be fun for that sort of terrain? Should I just go for the regular DW and use the Bonafide for 4" and under?
I recently demoed some skis when I was at Revy and really enjoyed the Black Crows Atris but know that some people find them to be a bit tame. I'd be interested if anyone has any thoughts about those compared to the DW. I also tried the QST Blank but didn't think they were as fun or easy to flick around, especially in the trees, but that was after 8 days and my shins were pretty torched.
Also looking at Devastators, the Woodsman series or the skinnier WCs (maybe even Enforcers), but really interested in the DWs!
So you demo'd a bunch of skis and really liked the Atris.
Sounds like you found your ski!
From what I understand, the Deathwish is stiffer and looser than the Atris, and the DW needs a bit more speed to come alive.
Another important question to consider is whether you're comfortable with that more forward mount point on the Deathwish, which I believe is -5 compared to the Atris at -8.
Last important point of differentiation between the Moment and the Black Crows, IMHO, is durability. Moment wins hands down in this regard.
I'm not sure where the idea comes from that the DW needs speed to come alive or that the DW 104 is somehow more stiff than the WC (both claims made on this page).
The WC is way more stiff and damp than the DW or DW 104. The DW is way more maneuverable at slow speeds than the WC. It does not need speed to come alive.
I was speaking about it relative to the Atris, not the WC.
I guess it depends on what someone means by "come alive"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo
Yes the DW is very maneuverable even at slow speeds.
But I would agree that with a little speed it feels quicker edge to edge if you're trying to carve turns at all. I wouldn't call the DW a low speed carver. It is easy to smear and slarve turns at low speeds.
I spent yesterday on low angle groomers helping my youngest continue to learn how to ski. And I agree that it doesn't need speed to be maneuverable.
But I would also say with a little speed the carving performance and quickness edge to edge when you're looking to Carve really starts to come through. The DW with some speed I find moves quicker edge to edge at 112 underfoot than my 97 underfoot Black Crows Camox.
The Atris was the most playful ski I've skied and the most forward, but that's largely because I've spent so much time looking for and trying stable/directional skis. Now that I've tried something that is at least a bit more playful I wonder if I should look for something even more out there. Any other suggestions for skis that might fit that? I realize that's a veeery broad category.Quote:
Originally Posted by VON
That's good to know about the durability, especially if I end up caving and buying new before the season is out.
Your comparison is totally fair. I'm referencing ejj's post about the DW 104 being stiffer than the WC. That's not the case IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by VON
Of the Moment skis I've skied, in order of stiffness WC>DW 104>DW>DWT
Good assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargentdrufus
Mike Rogers, cazdog, anybuddy got more to say on the Commander Tours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
You are correct--I misspoke--what I really meant to say was that I had a better time skiing on crappy snow and ice with DW104 vs the WC101.
Of course, if that is your whole day, neither ski is the best.
Right on. It's worth noting that I haven't been on a WC101, so can't compare. Good to know you enjoyed the DW104 on crappy snow and ice more than the WC101. Makes me feel better about my purchasing behavior, ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by ejj
Bout to pull the trigger on some Deathwishes, but before I do... Moment's not really one to throw discount codes around are they?
If your in the industry you can contact them and get a industry discount. 25% last I checked. They do an employee verification with a corp email or paystub from the shop/resort. Doesn’t have to be a dealer, just sharing the stoke of great gear.
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Blister members get 10%
Thank you both for the tips! Very stoked