Moment Skis Discussion

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Originally Posted by lemonhead

Here's my take on the C98 and DW112 quiver: I've had 3 Pairs of DW. All in the 190 length. I had a pair a C98 in 188 length that I luckily put demo bindings on. I found that they were okay at the recommended line for me (prefer a more progressive mount with an upright stance vs out on the tips). At plus 2 they came alive for me. That being said I sold them after one season and didn't buy another. I found there were more situations where I was on the C98 that I wished on was on the DW and not many the other way around. I really have clicked with all of the moment freestyle line and I think a DW104 is in my future. I hope the is enough difference to justify the 104 and 112 in a quiver for the Wasatch if snow eventually returns. I have some Ghost Trains that were on the reserve menu 2 years ago and they are by far my favorite big day ski of all time. I think that means that I will like the DW104 more than the commander 98.

In summary, I didn't have a hard time switching between the two and each one of those skis rewards a slightly different style. I'm sure I could have kept the C98s and would have been happy, and I like shiny objects and losing money on Gear Swap.

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Sounds like the DW104 is the way I should go.

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Originally Posted by RadSkier_

Can you expand on the key differences between C98 vs. DW and what made you gravitate towards the DW? I'm taking a hard look at either the DW 104 or the C98 for next season's low tide ski (WC118 is my pow ski).

When there is no snow I love to rip groomers, bash moguls and tight trees, and attack some steep/technical terrain. The WC/DW shape (lots of rocker, progressive mount) lends to a really fun ski in all those scenarios but I do find that while they hold an edge well on firm snow, they are not very exciting carvers unless you have tons of speed all the time and can bend the hell out of them. For reference my current low tide ski is the Fischer Ranger 102 FR mounted +2. I love that ski so much but it's getting pretty beat up after a few seasons and given the new 2023 version is a downgrade (less weight, softer tips and tails) I won't be going there.

Thanks for the help!

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My history: I've owned DW for 5 years...12/13s and 14/15s. I put a half demo day on the current C98s. And I own DW104 with about 25 days on them now.

The 104 to me is a more "exciting" ski than the C98. On firm, the C98 does have a bit better edge grip. It is noticeably smoother at speed and in chunk. The C98 is much less forgiving than the DW104 -- requiring a skilled pilot and attention. If your current lowtide ski is the Ranger, I'd lean DW104. (Or the other obvious choice being the Enforcer 104 Free). The DW104 is better in bumps, trees, and more energetic than the C98. For a playful style with some umph, I think DW104. If you're ready to stand on it and rage or really prefer the feel of a metal, damp ski, the C98.

I still ski my Corvus on occassion when i want that rage all day. Otherwise I'm on DW104 or DW112 or Bibby 80% of the time.

For a no-new-snow ski, don't sleep on the Wildcat 101 (the successor to the PB&J).

I absolutely LOVE my PBJs. It absolutely rails turns AND yet is super playful. I tried Bonafides, various Cochises, Mantra 102s, Wildcat 108s, Deathwishes, Brahmas, probably a few others in this slot -- and none have come close to the PBJ's protean mix of being a ripper, slashable, easy in the bumps, a cord-destroyer, and still being fun as hell to air off everything in sight!

It's not as dead-quiet stable as the metal lay-up skis, but it's at least 246 times more fun!! Of the 8ish pairs of Moments I've had, it's second only to my old 2013 Bibbys for best ski.

I have some C98s arriving at my door today. I'll post up some comparison thoughts for the collective's consumption.

Which year PBJ? The OG/2018 and earlier is substantially heavier than the 2020 and current wildcat-named. There's a big asterisk on how it performs depending on that.

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Originally Posted by SnakeMagnet

Which year PBJ? The OG/2018 and earlier is substantially heavier than the 2020 and current wildcat-named. There's a big asterisk on how it performs depending on that.

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They are the OG - 2017-18 model.

What is the big asterisk? Are the new ones light and sucky? I haven't followed the changes in that model, but I think they use stiffer/damper wood now eh (aspen/ash layup).

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Originally Posted by meter-man

They are the OG - 2017-18 model.

What is the big asterisk? Are the new ones light and sucky? I haven't followed the changes in that model, but I think they use stiffer/damper wood now eh (aspen/ash layup).

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I have a pair of 14/15 PBJs that I love for the same reasons you stayed above. Solid I’m so many conditions and they rip cord. Curious to hear the difference in the newer version and WC 104.


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Originally Posted by meter-man

They are the OG - 2017-18 model.

What is the big asterisk? Are the new ones light and sucky? I haven't followed the changes in that model, but I think they use stiffer/damper wood now eh (aspen/ash layup).

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It's enough of a change that you can't call them the same ski unless you've ridden both and can confirm it. My source for that reasoning being when the Bibby renamed: The '19-'20 models were lighter and got bounced around more, and it was only with the '21-'22 models getting the weight restored that the Wildcat became the known-and-loved bibby again. The same caution should be taken here.

They may be stiffer on top of being lighter, which usually doesn't jive for me personally. There's no replacement for displacement for dampness.

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Originally Posted by meter-man

They are the OG - 2017-18 model.

What is the big asterisk? Are the new ones light and sucky? I haven't followed the changes in that model, but I think they use stiffer/damper wood now eh (aspen/ash layup).

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It's enough of a change that you can't call them the same ski unless you've ridden both and can confirm it. I'm sure it still skis great but an ounce of caution is needed. My source for that reasoning being when the Bibby renamed: The '19-'20 models were lighter and significantly softer at the ends, and got bounced around more, and it was only the '21-'22 with the weight and stiffness restored that the Wildcat became the Bibby known-and-loved again.

They may be stiffer on top of being lighter, which usually doesn't jive for me personally. There's no replacement for displacement for dampness.

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Originally Posted by meter-man

For a no-new-snow ski, don't sleep on the Wildcat 101 (the successor to the PB&J).

I absolutely LOVE my PBJs. It absolutely rails turns AND yet is super playful. I tried Bonafides, various Cochises, Mantra 102s, Wildcat 108s, Deathwishes, Brahmas, probably a few others in this slot -- and none have come close to the PBJ's protean mix of being a ripper, slashable, easy in the bumps, a cord-destroyer, and still being fun as hell to air off everything in sight!

It's not as dead-quiet stable as the metal lay-up skis, but it's at least 246 times more fun!! Of the 8ish pairs of Moments I've had, it's second only to my old 2013 Bibbys for best ski.

I have some C98s arriving at my door today. I'll post up some comparison thoughts for the collective's consumption.

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Great info. 2018 Bibby one of my favorite all-time skis as well.

The only reason I've never tried the Deathwish is that being a lanky 6'4 185lbs, I haven't wanted to get any farther forward-mounted on a ski than I've found myself on the 190 Bibby's.

That being said, I've tried (and sold) many of the same skis you've mentioned here (Mantras, Bonafides, Cochises, BMX's) because while awesome, they just didn't have quite the maneuverability, versatility, and fun factor in crappy off-trail conditions that I've been hoping for from a ~100ish-wide low-tide ski..

I also have a pair of 188cm C98's arriving soon. I'm hopeful they'll keep most of the aforementioned skis' stability and on-edge fun while also taking things up a notch in terms of quickness/maneuverability/pivotability.

Will report back as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meter-man

For a no-new-snow ski, don't sleep on the Wildcat 101 (the successor to the PB&J).

I absolutely LOVE my PBJs. It absolutely rails turns AND yet is super playful. I tried Bonafides, various Cochises, Mantra 102s, Wildcat 108s, Deathwishes, Brahmas, probably a few others in this slot -- and none have come close to the PBJ's protean mix of being a ripper, slashable, easy in the bumps, a cord-destroyer, and still being fun as hell to air off everything in sight!

It's not as dead-quiet stable as the metal lay-up skis, but it's at least 246 times more fun!! Of the 8ish pairs of Moments I've had, it's second only to my old 2013 Bibbys for best ski.

I have some C98s arriving at my door today. I'll post up some comparison thoughts for the collective's consumption.

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Meter, looking forward to your thoughts on the C98. I have been wanting something 100-104 that more piste/carving oriented than my C108 194, and thats on the short list along with the new Ranger 102.

Just got out on the 21/22 188 Dictator 3 over the weekend and was VERY happy with them for those characteristics.

Also, had the same vintage of PBJ as you, and CAN CONFIRM those boys freaking rip. I was blown away how a ski with that rocker and design can rail so hard.

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Originally Posted by lemonhead

Here's my take on the C98 and DW112 quiver: I've had 3 Pairs of DW. All in the 190 length. I had a pair a C98 in 188 length that I luckily put demo bindings on. I found that they were okay at the recommended line for me (prefer a more progressive mount with an upright stance vs out on the tips). At plus 2 they came alive for me. That being said I sold them after one season and didn't buy another. I found there were more situations where I was on the C98 that I wished on was on the DW and not many the other way around. I really have clicked with all of the moment freestyle line and I think a DW104 is in my future. I hope the is enough difference to justify the 104 and 112 in a quiver for the Wasatch if snow eventually returns. I have some Ghost Trains that were on the reserve menu 2 years ago and they are by far my favorite big day ski of all time. I think that means that I will like the DW104 more than the commander 98.

In summary, I didn't have a hard time switching between the two and each one of those skis rewards a slightly different style. I'm sure I could have kept the C98s and would have been happy, and I like shiny objects and losing money on Gear Swap.

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+1 on "I found there were more situations where I was on the C98 that I wished I was on the DW and not many the other way around."

I brought my DW112 and C108 to the hill one day last year in "no new snow" conditions, mostly skiing groomers and some off piste. Started on the C108, switched to the DW112, and never really had any reason to switch back to the C108. The Deathwish grip so damn well on groomers and such, you're not losing out on much by not going with the more directional ski.

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

If low tide includes any park laps, go 184. If not, go 190

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Thanks. I don't ski much park, and when I do I don't spin. 190 ordered.

I ended up on my DW104's after an 11" snowfall and finally found a point where I wished I was on a different ski heh. Especially with my friends hunting for fresh stashes all day.

I have been on a pair of DW 190’s the past couple of years am consistently surprised by how versatile they are, almost to the point I am questioning why I’m keeping my Wren 98’s. For truly low tide conditions I have some monster 83’s but for nearly every thing else I have fun on DW’s


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What year did the PBJs change to the lighter weight setup?


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Originally Posted by jbrine

What year did the PBJs change to the lighter weight setup?


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Whenever they went to semi cap.

18/19?

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Originally Posted by RadSkier_

Can you expand on the key differences between C98 vs. DW and what made you gravitate towards the DW? I'm taking a hard look at either the DW 104 or the C98 for next season's low tide ski (WC118 is my pow ski).

When there is no snow I love to rip groomers, bash moguls and tight trees, and attack some steep/technical terrain. The WC/DW shape (lots of rocker, progressive mount) lends to a really fun ski in all those scenarios but I do find that while they hold an edge well on firm snow, they are not very exciting carvers unless you have tons of speed all the time and can bend the hell out of them. For reference my current low tide ski is the Fischer Ranger 102 FR mounted +2. I love that ski so much but it's getting pretty beat up after a few seasons and given the new 2023 version is a downgrade (less weight, softer tips and tails) I won't be going there.

Thanks for the help!

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For me the deathwish can be driven with a more forward stance, and skied more upright you get slash and get loose. It skis much narrower that the waist when you want and still has the float. When I click in I know its going to be good everywhere. I didn't feel that way on the commander. I also like the ability to use the triple camber to boost off of rollers.

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Originally Posted by K1mJ0ngTr1ll

It sounds like the 104 has enough subtle differences for me to want to buy and use on days when there is no snow... which is everyday now it seems.

Very jealous of your GTs. If they are the 194 let me know if you ever want to part with them ;)

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You know I had to get the 194s...After bugging Melee for 2 years to build them again I cannot imagine getting rid of them anytime soon. They are that good. I imagine that any DW fanboy would easily fall in love with the Ghost Train on a deep day.

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Originally Posted by lemonhead

For me the deathwish can be driven with a more forward stance, and skied more upright you get slash and get loose. It skis much narrower that the waist when you want and still has the float.

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This is why I love the DW so much, its bipolar. Feels narrower and can do a forward stance on the groomers but ski it centered in the trees and it feels slashy and floaty. How does it do in the chop? My DW experience is on the DWT, which doesn't do great in chop (obviously), I'm thinking of replacing my jeff108 with a DW104 for resort duty

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Originally Posted by lemonhead

You know I had to get the 194s...After bugging Melee for 2 years to build them again I cannot imagine getting rid of them anytime soon. They are that good. I imagine that any DW fanboy would easily fall in love with the Ghost Train on a deep day.

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I'm currently on a Portest which is a blast but I like to keep things uniform... I think a DW104/DW/GT would achieve this.

DW104 owner here: just returned from Telluride where we had 2 groomer/screw-around days and then three storm days (31"). The DW104 is a decent groomer ski--just don't expect it to carve and pull your around quite like a traditional metal 90-100 ski. But you can stand on it and it holds--you need to ski it a few days to really learn how to use it best. It can make short and long turns, and you can move your balance around easily.

The biggest morning had maybe 15" of snow--and the DW104 was still good for those first few runs of fresh. Then the resort gets semi-tracked and a ski like the CB or Wildcat would be pretty great.

In short--the DW104 is my new daily, with a TBD bigger ski on the way next year for those rare lucky days.

Skied Deathwish today at Stowe……so glad I bought it…..really fun ski/poppy, stable, carves, slarves, smears….another Moment ski that is very versatile/can make many different turn shapes…really impressed how quick it can turn….for a 190.

Now that I can directly compare the C98 and DW……my caveman review:

C98- charger/fun
DW- playful charger/funner

If I was anywhere but the EC….the DW would be my 1 ski quiver….

Very impressed…

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Originally Posted by ejj

DW104 owner here: just returned from Telluride

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I was there as well...twas pretty pretty fun on those storm days.

Hopped on my first Moment ski this weekend at the INW meat up.
Skied the Deathwish 104. Holy crap that ski is a riot! Skied it in a myriad of conditions and had a blast in all of them. Never skied a ski so center mounted yet really enjoyed it. Its super light and could only imagine what a heavier DW with metal would ski like. Total destroyer I bet.
The feed back was a little more than I prefer on firmer surfaces or mixed bag surfaces but not a total deal breaker.
Would bang again.
Thanks Thefortrees!

Is everyone mounting the DW 104 on the line?

Wondering what the reasoning for moving the recommend line 1cm back on the DW 104? Perhaps to make it a bit better for driving the tips?