Pffft. Used snow for 129$Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
Pffft. Used snow for 129$Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
Different location. The fatality was along the ridge running east, aspect facing N. Near the area called "shale shot"Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshredalot
Today's incident was a good friend of mine, he's ok and got lucky that he didn't hit any trees. Sobering for all involved. He also learned the hard way why you don't wear pole straps in avy terrain, as he initially had trouble reaching his airbag with his arms pinned.
Glad he made it out in one piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat
pretty sure there was a sign for no horses. but the 'welcome to the wasatch natl forest sign' is definitely gone, right? I didn't see it a few weeks ago, right across from the exit from the LCC PnR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
Yesterday at Solitude, thanks to patrol for opening more terrain
Attachment 222130
Today at the bird
Attachment 222131
Attachment 222134
Still it has been fun and absolutely no crowds.
Super deal $100 for 7 day SLC superpass, expires 1/31. Send a pm
So LCC / HWY 210 is one step closer to becoming a toll road. Utah State Senate Transportation Committee voted 7-0 to endorse electronic tolling. Senate President said he sponsored the bill to more easily allow tolls to reduce congestion. Wonder what Alta and Snowbird think about adding an additional cost to skiers that have other options besides driving up LCC? Will this have an impact on out of town visitors that can easily drive to PC or Snowbasin? Think of a family of four that decide to take a bus, that's $36.
Lastly I would hate to see more skiers being able to access Alta or Snowbird on big powder days. When cars are parked on the road both resorts are at or above capacity IMO. Can't imagine Alta being busier than it was on the Saturday of MLK weekend. It was dangerous in spots, way overcrowded. Nothing in the story about encouraging carpooling.
To force people to take the bus you have to have the tolls high enough that it hurts. The bus on big days is a PIA with schedules out the window, standing for two hours with wet clothes and stinky people.
BTW, the Senate President complained about not being able to get out of his subdivision due to road congestion. So there you have the real reason.
I would fully support a toll system in LCC if it was implemented well. High day rate with a reasonably priced annual pass like Millcreek/AF, variable daily fees for weekday/weekend, time of day, holidays, etc., fees used to fund improved and cheaper public transit options, fees for daily users kick in at Snowbird Entry 1 so dispersed users lower in the canyon who can't use the bus get spared.
Hah, like that will ever happen. It'll be flat daily rates only, they'll charge everyone at the mouth, raise bus fees at the same time, and dump all the proceeds into the general fund.
I would also like a toll system. But only if it was actually well done. What happened to those suggestions they asked for a few months back? Was a UDOT questionnaire asking for suggestions on congestion easing .Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
In other detrimental Alta news: Alta is done. New GM totally sold them out for more $$$. Greedy fuck.
Alta is part of the new Ikon Pass. Epic Pass competitor. FUCK.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/business...rican-resorts/
Shit is about to get weird in LCC.
I'm also fine with a toll. If it supports the canyons. There also should be a reduced/free rate for carpooling, and a reasonable annual pass price.
Does anyone know precise info on the inbounds Snowbasin slide last week where two people got caught on No Name? It's a place I ski by myself often. I'm pretty annoyed the UAC has not done a full report so I can understand what happened and where. I'd ski differently knowing where it has slid in the past before and info on how exactly the SB patrol made the call to open it and what they did beforehand, but now I just have a spooky feeling skiing out there with no info.
I am fine with them making it a national forest fee area, like AF canyon or the Uintas. That's an annual pass I already buy.
I'm not so fine with them requiring an actual toll road, as in you have to pay a toll to UDOT every time you try to access the national forest, because that artificially restricts access to the national forest which belongs to everyone.
I was going to include that in my description of a well-implemented system, but I'm not sure how you do that with a fully electronic boothless system. The system they use for HOV lanes on I-15 works doesn't seem like it would work, people cheat it constantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowaddict91
*eyeing zones
Third hand information so cut a little slack.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
No Name Bowl, 1st time open for the year, 19th person on the slope.
Don't know the area or exactly where the incident occurred, just that it was at the top of the slope.
A first chair kind of local had dropped his pole and was looking up slope in time to see the siblings going for a ride.
He saw where the female had stopped, semi erect and partially buried, before a second wave covered her.
A snow safety manager skied down from the top of the slope, and she was located very quickly her head two feet down.
Dodged a bullet on that one. One lucky gal. Brother partially buried.
This incident shows that avalanche mitigation programs can not be 100%. Especially with our current snow pack.
Snow Basin did nothing wrong here, they were performing at the standard of the industry.
The avalanche took out 3? shot holes on the lower slope, with several more above the crown face.
Opening a slope for the first time in a season with persistent weak layers is always a difficult decision. This is when most in bound fatalities occur.
Skiing in area with a partner and rescue equipment is not overkill if one skis places like No Name regularly.
Hope this helps!
That's a huge help, thanks. Do you know if it was the first day of the season they tried to control it?Quote:
Originally Posted by telefreewasatch
I'd disagree that SB didn't do something wrong if a guest got caught. Whether it was an easy or hard mistake to make I don't know, but it doesn't sound like I will ever know. Following standards is one thing, having 'intuition' (for the lack of a better description) on top of standards is an amazing thing to see.
Disclaimer to people who think patrol can not be questioned: Don't get me wrong, I agree it's never a 100% controllable thing. I've got caught in numerous inbound slides, a great friend died in in-bounds slide. Some places I trust the patrol (Bridger), other places I take extra caution (Snowbird) based on what I know about their patrol. As for SB, I'm new there and don't know much about much. But now I'm spooked.
No, it was not the first day of control work.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
You don't think Bridger hasn't dodged multiple bullets since it opened it's doors? How 'bout Slushman's a couple of years ago, taking out multiple tracks from the day before without much weather change overnight.
Go work for a class A avalanche area for a while and you may not like the realizations you come to but you will understand that the best mitigation and forecasting programs in the country are not immune to getting bit. I've been mitigating avalanches and dishing up powder skiing in the LCC for 38 years and egotistically believe that I have some "intuition". Didn't stop Heather Gross from dying on my watch.
There is a 100% way to have 0 fatalities on a given slope. Don't open it. Is that the kind of ski area you want a pass to? One that has its good shit closed all the time? There is always some risk taken by ski area control programs if they dish up what everyone comes for...powder while it is still powder.
I'm sure Hans is running a good program at the Basin. Known him for years. He has "the stuff". Be grateful he is running a program where you have chosen to ski. Just don't bitch about things being closed while they recover from being bit...
Uac won't do a report. Resorts are always hush hush on inbounds slides. Uac covers outside the resorts. Just how it works. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know uac didn't cover either the small inbounds slide at Alta couple years back (near sunspot) or the one that killed a girl at bird 5 or 6 years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
The third hand info posted is what I have heard too or at least damned close. I heard the girl was found with a random probe hit and was under near 10 min. Still sounds about right. Ski down , probe, dig a couple feet 10 min.
Glad everyone is ok. Now you know why you should be beeping in bounds or out
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Bridger is where one my best friends died in bounds, and I still trust them. And I was there helping locate Heather at SB, that was a tiny pocket that went (I think) so I don't blame snowbird patrols for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by telefreewasatch
As I said, don't get me wrong.
that's out of bounds and not controlled.Quote:
Originally Posted by telefreewasatch
Good to hear, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by telefreewasatch
They were already MTN collective no? How does ikon fuck anything up or the new GM "selling out"? Not defending him, I hate mtn collective, so will likely equally hate ikon, but it works for many so....who the fuck am to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
I've been beeping in-bounds since 1992, it was required by Bridger. That's how they found my friend a day later at Bridger, he was skiing alone and no one saw him get caught.
Your idea of using fees to subsidize improved and cheaper public transportation options sounds good except UTA (public transportation systems across the country) lose money on every customer. They can do anything they want to make things better but it makes no difference how much they charge, they won't cover the cost of service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
So I guess Town of Alta residents will pay the toll as well as employees driving up the canyon. How about Alta and Snowbird vehicles? What does this do to the Town of Alta's plans to build a business district? I am sure this will reduce summer visitors if they have to pay every time they drive up the canyon.
Strong prefrontal winds for the last 24 hours, started snowing pretty hard up LCC around 2p
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Very well said, thanks. I would speculate that No Name is some of the more complicated terrain to mitigate in the Wasatch. It can also be scary as fuck to do so. And I know for a fact that the patrol takes it very seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by telefreewasatch
Hans is still number 2 at SB snow safety, right? Still, he has years of endless wintering between here and New Zealand. As well as experience in AK, Gulmarg, The Rubies....yeah he's got some intuition.
The way I understand it from the tribune article is that they (Ikon Pass) are wanting to be a direct competitor to Epic Pass. Epic pass offers unlimited skiing and riding at all of their participating resorts, effectively turning it into a season pass at all of their participating resorts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
If Alta now essentially offers an Alta-Bird pass for real cheap, it will only exacerbate the local crowding problem. I highly doubt it will really add all that much to their tourism dollars because those people will now be spending ~$850 on a pass who's profits have to be shared with 10 or so other resorts.
So, in essence, I'm pissed about it because parking already sucks, lift lines already suck and on top of that now this pass will probably pull about ~20% more locals up LCC who would have otherwise bought either season passes or Epic Passes to PC/Canyons, and Brighton.
I guess this means I'm getting old.
Ahhh I misunderstood the pass then...yeah that would be a fuckshow huh....? Guess we wait to see what the prices are. I have had a feeling for few years that the Utah resorts we're due for a price war due to Vail/epic..guess it's starting.Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose
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The pessimism is strong with me. I'm super bummed out. Someone convince me why this is a good thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
I’m sitting up in solitude village watching the snow pile up and saw the news. I was wondering where those leaves the bcc resorts. No more wasatch pass benefits I’m sure. Not sure lcc can handle the marauding hordes of 699 pass holders.Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose
What I always wonder is, if skier visits are down why are so many resorts so crowded all the time.
I was just thinking the timing of the toll news and ikon news fall on same day. Maybe one has nothing to do with the other, but the ikon will surely bring more traffic as mentioned.
Now that I see the details of ikon being an epic pass competitor i agree with the sell out of new Alta gm.
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How much snow is building up?
I'm down in the valley currently, hoping this storm overdelivers.
Looks like about 4" here currently at Powder Mt.
5” big cottonwood @ 7pm
More likely, you live in a city with really good skiing nearby. Deal with it, you live in city.Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose
How would you feel if the pass prices actually went up?
Its would probably be the best thing for LCC.
Sure, deal with it, I live in a city with good skiing near by. I get that sentiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead
But can you understand the feeling? The best part about Alta (aside from the snow obviously) is the culture. It does not have that corporate culture that nearly every other resort I've been to has. That culture, combined with the world class snow is EXACTLY what makes Alta special and is why they are regarded as one of the best areas in the world. No where else have I skied where you routinely pull into the lift maze and everyone is smiling and happy without all the grumpy powder panic people. Even on a powder day, like last Sunday for example.
I would actually really welcome an increase in pass prices for exactly the reason you state. It would limit the LCC traffic.
Alta prides themselves on "the skiing experience". (They say so in their Ikon press release and even on the early season whiteboard on Collins when they were only loading every other chair). I like that and I take that to mean they pride themselves on the way the mountain skis, and that is largely due to the people who are on the mountain.
But the thing is that Onno actually realized what that meant and realized how important it was. This new GM just took that feeling and said "Hey, that sounds like a good marketing slogan." And because he is just a fucking business guy, not a skier, he ran with it and couldn't see the forrest through the trees. That is what makes me fucking pissed.
I'm so fucking sick of people being unable to recognize subtlety. And yes, I recognize the irony in me saying that while ranting with anything but subtlety. The point still stands.
IKon not believe the even bigger Epic traffic shitshow LCC will Collectively become.
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I'm thinking he's in charge of the program now but could be wrong. Just sat next to him for 2 hours this evening at a WBR coordinator's meeting and do not know for sure. Did hear the events of the other day first hand. This was a post control event with air blasts and Gasex exploders used in the starting zone. They feel super lucky on the outcome and praise their lucky stars.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
I've been playing the canyon drive crap for 23 seasons now. Every year it seems to have gotten a bit busier. I'm the problem, I'm the average dedicated skier living in the valley. I drive my car up there 50-70 times a season, about 25-35 of them I have my buddy Travis with me (He lives in my neighborhood.). The rest I drive up there myself in my car. I boot up in the lot, I bring shit to eat after skiing and a bit of wine.
I leave my house at specific times for the most part, knowing how early I'll have to be to not deal with traffic. This season I paid $250 for a preferred parking pass at Snowbird. It's going to be hard to get me to stop driving up that canyon.
Public transportation in the canyon sucks, there is pretty much no way I'd submit myself to that situation in it's current affair. I have friends that do the bus thing and I admire them for it, it ain't for me. Like I said, I'm the problem.
Tolls aren't going to do shit about it, I'll pay, tourists that increase in numbers every season will pay. It will fill the coffers of the legislature and do little to solve the problem. They haven't been very proactive in any measure in the years I've been here. The problem just keeps increasing and now a toll has been suggested to keep the traffic from infringing on a state senator's ability to exit his domicile near the mouth of the canyon.
I don't have a solution mainly because I ain't paid to have a solution. But, the folks that are tasked and paid with that shit haven't seemed to care.
Snowbird is rowdy as fuck, the snow safety team is top notch. My hat is off to you guys. Stay safe out there my friends! There is a greater than 50% chance I may be back in a bird pass sometime. Stoke meter is pegged! BobMc lets workout the carpool rotationQuote:
Originally Posted by telefreewasatch
Quick 8 maybe 10 at brighton for best pow night so far this season! Hotlaps were order of the eve. Spun out Tesla S was the highlight of the canyon shitshow.
This is the truth. I'm guilty too. And I recognize the hypocrisy of it. But fuck me for wanting actual solutions right?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMc
I guess this is what pisses me off. Tolls don't fix the problem, they just cost me money. I am unaware of a bus solution, every 15 minutes was a big improvement but standing for two hrs + on the way down with no place to piss is painful. Adding more buses or Alta only buses would not change that. For two people that is $19 a day. From day one of the transportation solutions (cog rail) I said the cost would be billions. That was confirmed yesterday when the state Senate said that is not an option due to cost. On big days when the parking lot at Alta is full the mountain is at capacity. Can't we accept that and turn people away? Why are ski areas not sold out? The Jazz are sold out, Zion NP turns people away, I couldn't get a ticket to Star Wars opening day but we send too many people up LCC. I still think all this hand wringing for a few days over the course of a 150 day season is overkill. As I said previously, I 70 to Denver is a two + hour mess every Sunday and four if it snowing, LCC is no where close to being that bad.
^That's my other question. Why the hell should I have to pay a toll on a random Tuesday morning when it hasn't snowed in a week and the canyon is empty? Do people have to pay a toll to drive down I15 at 8 AM to encourage them to carpool?