Printable View
Ended up getting this season's 130. The stock liner seems sufficient for touring but definitely doesn't have that plush feel. I tossed an Intuition Tour Wrap in the boot which definitely stiffened it up some while making it feel a little more progressive/plush. I didn't notice much less ROM with the tour wrap but it's definitely not as smooth as the stock liner while walking. Interested to see how it feels with a plug or power wrap liner for those resort days.
So, I've been watching for a pair of these for a while. Finally snagged a pair pretty cheap, used. 18/19 model. But the reviews are right about a pretty minimal liner. I could probably make it work, but I don't think I'd be happy with it.
So, I dug out my 25 year old Scarpa T1's with Raichle Thermoflex wraps. The Thermoflex liner fits pretty well. [It's a bit thick, so I might heat mold it again.] The Tflex liner is about half the weight of the stock liner. [250G vs 130G, IIRC]
So, is there any reason I should really consider a new intuition if I'm fairly happy with the TFlex? I don't think it's going to tour as easily as the stock liner is, but it worked pretty well in the T1's.
I'd guess the answer is; try it and see. But thought I'd ask if anyone else has some secret insight I'm missing.
-Greg
Yeah, that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorys
Just got back from an in store fit and flex test of some 130's.
Did a/b comparo to some 3 year old modified dynafit vulcans.
Stock hawx with unmolded stock liner fit pretty good off the shelf. Liner felt really quite nice unmolded but would probably spot mold forefoot for more width and then punch shell if required. Flex was comparable in forward stiffness with vulcans with no tongue, intuition hv luxury liners and custom forward flex stiffness/progressiveness adjuster to stiffest setting. Vulcans were a bit stiffer in rearward support.
Question is: How much stiffer do the hawx get in real world ski temps? They felt in the right range of progressiveness and support (for my preferences) in the shop but curious if they stiffen up substantially and become more brick wally?
They get to a pretty real 120-130 in the cold. Ive had boots using the same memory fit shell and its very temperature sensitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by swissiphic
That's a shame if true, the Atomic guy on the Blister podcast a while back sounded super pumped about the material used in the XTD line, claiming it was only 25% (I think, might not be remembering correctly) as sensitive to temperature changes as Grilamid.
I mean, my other boots (tecnica cochise) are pretty temperature sensative and they are a full PU boot. The only real difference I notice is how easy or hard it is to get the boots on or off, but once they are on it's not enough to really change how I ski. As shells get thinner and more moldable they are naturally going to be more temperature sensative. It's just the tradeoff in material properties that is being made. I highly doubt more than 5% of the skiing population will notice the small difference or care.
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
Probably true. All boots are temperature sensitive. I don’t think the Hawx are really any worse. I definitely notice it on my Cochises - I can pretty easily bottom them out on the buckles when it’s warm. In comparison, the Hawx are a bit softer in cold temperatures, but stiffer when warm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtlange
Hmmm. In my collection of boots (Lange RS 130, Lange XT Free 130, Tecnica Mach 1 130 LV, Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro, Atomic Backland Carbon) the Hawx Ultra XTD 130 seems to vary less with temperature fluctuation than the others.
Same here. My XTD120 with ProTourz feels way stiffer in my living room than my Lange RX130. On the hill they’re about the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
Greg, do you have the new Backland Carbon? The one that doesn’t use the tongue? I have the Hawx XTD 130 from last year in a 26.5 and I tried on the new Backland Carbon in a 27.5 at SkiMo as a potential go light go far boot option. I was impressed by the carpet test for flex, weight, and walk mode ROM. Wondering if you have real world experience? Comparisons to the XTD 130 and Zero G Tour Pro?
I don't have one yet, I tried on the sample last year in my normal size and I could barely get my foot in, but I believe they have tweaked the BOA since. I have lots of days in the original Backland Carbon, though, and it's really in a different category than the Hawx Ultra XTD and the Zero G Tour Pro. Ask me again later in the season. Did you have to go up a size?Quote:
Originally Posted by DGamms
I didn’t try the 26.5, I keep losing toenails on my bigger foot with a performance fit in my current touring boots. I bet I could make a 26.5 Backland work if needed, I was trying for a comfort fit in the store though.
Yeah, different category of boot no doubt. Not a lot of real world feedback on them yet, but again I found the carpet test impressive.
They seem to have a much higher cuff height than the old Backland, the new ones are within a few mm of the XTD 130 cuff height. Claimed flex of 110 seems about right (at room temp comparison), stock power strap and liner are pretty nice (although heel hold a little loose for me in a 27.5) and around 1100 gm in a 27.5 with the stock footbeds. Walk mode ROM is ridiculous.
I think you misread. We are saying the same thing ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
But with a different boot collection.
im going to sound like a huge jong, but who cares ... how the fuck do you take these boots off!
i've got some Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130. i haven't skiied them yet, but I'm wearing them in around the house and damn do they fit and feel so nice. they're millimeter perfect for my feet.
problem is, that they're soo tight that I can't seem to get them off without pinching and getting the tongue of the liner caught between the two halves of the shell, right at the instep area.
i'm worried that repeatedly getting the liner caught will damage it pretty quickly.
i don't have the same problem with scarpa freedom, maestrale, zero g tour, nor other alpine ski boots. i think its because the liner is so thin with these boots and because they're so tight.
if i try really really hard i can get my fingers caught and bleeding instead, so there's that i guess.
ill probably work out a technique eventually, but it'd be nice to skip to the end instead of damaging the boots.
so yeah, lol, can someone who has these boots give me instructions on taking them off :)
in the mean time, i guess ill just sleep in them.
Does the liner have laces? done up? Just leave the liner on your foot when taking the shell off? That's the way I go with most boots.
I do exactly what smooth operator says. Lace up the stock liner on your foot first. It takes 20 seconds per side. Slide your foot/liner combo into the shell. Boom, ready to go skiing!
When you are done skiing, reverse the process. Leave the liner tied up. Put the boot in ski mode (walk mode makes this harder). Unbuckle the boot completely and genuflect to Ullr. Your foot/liner combo will slide out of the boot shell. Done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth operator
doh, didn't even think of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGamms
i've never been able to get in/out of other boots with the liner on, so i didn't even think of it this time.
gave it a shot just now. its not perfect, most likely because im out of practice this way. but it is already better than the alternative. ty for the tip.
Is there any way to make them feel as close as possible to regular alpine boot (for example to Hawx Ultra S)? I mean, non XTD version shell weighs only 150g more per boot.
My current set up Ultra XTD 18/19 + Intuition Tour wrap for touring and Dalbelo KR2 for resort. Usually I travel with one boot. And if conditions are bad and I have XTD - it’s going to be a very harsh ride. What liner should I get to have a plush feeling of alpine boot? Instead of taking two boots I could take 2 liners + XTD shell.
Does Intuition Pro tour your has a more plush feel than Tour Wrap? (only if it’s possible to have one liner for both resort and backcountry).
I have both 120 and 130 XTD. 130's are with Tour Wrap. Atomic Gold Liner (from 120 XTD) is pretty plush. AFAIK it is used in some of the normal Ultras.
So, I read through the last couple of pages looking for info, admittedly haven't read the whole thread yet. I'm looking for real world experience. After 4-5 seasons on my Maestrales and several franken-fixes, it may be worth it for me to try new boots.
-Shell fit seemed fine, but with the liner in I will need some width. Maybe up to Maestrale width as I value warmth and comfort over all-out performance for these. How much extra width have people been getting in these?
-Also, I had pressure over my instep after wearing them for 10 minutes. Is there a boot board to grind, or is there otherwise a fix for extra instep height?
-Finally, how warm are these? It's not super uncommon for my feet to be cold at temps less than 20's. I usually just deal, but are these much colder than Maestrales?
Thanks in advance!
1) You can get lots of width. My feet are 106 and 107mm wide in a 26.5. No problem with punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
2) There is a boot board (at least that's what I remember)
3) Not as warm as Scarpas with Intuitions. They've been fine for me at 0º F but I run warm.
Can you share how/where/why you use 120 vs 130.Quote:
Originally Posted by aanev
I’m torn on which flex to get.
Current alpine boot is RX130 with a rivet pulled but a zipfit and booster. Would like these to feel closer to that setup than to my Freetour 130s which feel nice and progressive right up until they just collapse and fold.
Seems I could save money getting 120 vs 130 given I’d likely supplement either with a second liner to cover my usage scenarios - lighter tour liner for the 120 or a plusher inbounds liner for the 130.
Also is there a consensus on whether to size up tour wraps in these or go with shell size? From what i’ve read seems folks been happy either way?
I should mention these would be the new green liner version vs last years with the orange. But warmth is a consideration for me for sure, I have gone numb in Scarpa's with Intuition in temps around 0.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
You had the same Maestrale RS as me I believe. Are the Atomic's a big improvement for you? Walking/Skiing?
They ski significantly better than the OG RS's. Much closer to being a 1 boot quiver in terms of both fit and flex. It also took more time with a boot fitter to make them work for me.
I think they walk about the same. But I've also toured in F1's a lot the last few years. Those walk much better than both, making the difference between the RS and Hawx seem minimal by comparison.
Maybe not helpful, but I've been on xtd 130s every day for the past two years. Park, groomers, trees, and a little bit of touring. They ski way better than the full Tilts I had before so I haven't ever felt like I needed a dedicated alpine boot. I'm not very big either so I've never blown through the front of the boot
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
I was able to get a decent amount of width but couldn't get the instep to work. Tried grinding the boot board and stretching above the instep but couldn't get it right. I'm about 267 in length but my instep is 285 or so. In the amount of time I did ski them the liner was fine for touring but my feet froze on inbounds days. My feet rarely get cold in my Pro Tours or Power Wraps.
I had bad instep problems in my XTD 130s and was able to fix it by switching to a LV pro tour intuition liner, it allows my foot to sit a bit further back in the boot compared with the stock liner, so the instep isn't banging against the top of the shell, and it helps lock my heel in. I don't ski them on hard pack/bumps so I don't really push it, but they work fine for me after the new liner, and cooking the shell.
ok been searching the thread to no avail.
I had these punched and i want to un-punch. does heating the shell do that?
In my experience - YES.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
Partially. A good punch won't go all the way back, even with 10 minutes in the oven. At 12 minutes the bootboards start to melt.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
Not sure how much width is possible, but my feet measure 109mm/110mm and my bootfitter (Tom @ Intuition Vancouver) had no problem with what he said was minor punch work to make room for forefoot width in a 27.5. I've actually had zero discomfort in that area, last two boots (Scarpa Masetrale RS 1.0 and Tenica Dragon 130 alpine boot) I had to go back to bootfitters for extra work due to bad pain on day 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
I never had problems with cold feet, but two days of skiing cold dry powder in Whistler (in bounds) around -8 to -10C I had cold toes, both standing around/lifts and skiing. Was never bad enough to go into the lodge but surprised me a bit since my feet are usually a sweaty mess. No issues the day we toured though. I think it might be a tighter shell/liner fit in the Hawx 130 versus my old Maestrale and alpine boots.
Was just back at Intuition today to get a bit more room in the toe box (heat gun on line toe area/stretch with tool + grind custom insoles down a bit) and heel hold for touring for ankle blisters (trying pads on lower calf area of liner to see if it helps.
Really impressed with these boots though. I'm 210lbs, so I will not say they feel like an alpine boot in the resort, but they are absolutely good enough (especially for pow) and I had a blast with zero pain/complaints doing two big days this past weekend. These two minor fixes today should help with touring as well. Also the conventional overlap/4 buckle is a lot easier IMO than RS 1.0 to deal with.
I could use some advice on a replacement liner for my XTD 130s (older orange model). I'm in a 26.5 shell, and have a pretty good, snug fit in there after a heat mold and a little punching. About 5/8"-3/4" shell fit, with the liner removed (my right foot is a little longer than my left). Pretty high instep, and I'll be skiing them with relatively thin custom footbeds.
Leaning towards a MV Pro Tour, but open to ideas. I do like wrap liners in my alpine boots, but don't really think I need to stiffen these up, and would rather not take a big walkability hit. But I haven't used a Tour Wrap before, so I don't really have a great handle on how significant that is.
I've got an mv pro tour in mine, 27 shell with a slightly tighter shell fit and am very happy.
Thanks. Did you go 27 or 28 for the liner, into a 27.5 shell? Intuition says round up for the Pro Tour but I'm wary since the Hawx shell runs a little short, and I'm tight on overall volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
I put a 28.5 Scarpa Freedom SL liner (tongue, beefier than protour) in a 29 Hawx and it's good...but it's Scarpa sizing so... :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
I tried to stuff the liner out of a 27.0 Freedom RS my my Hawx and that was a bit too high volume. I guess that's a point in favor of the 26?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean
I've gotten the 27/27.5 Scarpa Intuition and the 27 Tour Wrap in my 27.5 shell. Tour Wrap fits a little better since the sole of the Scarpa liner has about 2-3 more mm of foam.Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
I went 26 in the MV pro tour in a 26/26.5 shell. I don't think the 27 would fit as well, especially with home baking and having to work the hot liner into that shell.
I’m using Intuition Tour Wrap 25 in 24.5 shell. Works like a charm.