4Runner/Tacoma alternatives?

He - like many of my friends who became professional mechanics - is fairly conservative when it comes to factory up-sells. The X-REAS is complicated, and costly to fix/replace. There's an argument to be made that it works for a small(ish) percentage of owners who really do 4-wheeling stuff in stock vehicles, but even then, most of those guys upgrade way beyond stock. Plus the factory Bilstein suspension on the lower trims is really good, and not prone to problems.

Don't know why he isn't a fan of Fox, but I'll assume it's similar. They have a ton of experience in moto and mtb, but aren't legacy in the auto world.

On a personal note, with the disclaimer that everyone here knows I'm a huge Toyota fanboi, our current 5th gen (off-road premium) is an absolutely fantastic vehicle for our needs. Yes it gets terrible gas mileage, and yes it's louder than a luxury car/suv, but snow+skis+dogs+bikes=no problems at all.

2020 Taco TRD Sport Crew w 6ft bed... things to look out for? Do I really lose a lot over the TRD OffRoad?

TRD sport just doesn't have stuff like crawl control, and maybe doesn't have the lockers. If you aren't going serious off roading much, you are probably fine. Stiffer suspension for better on-road performance, which you might like or not. I had the OR for a few years and liked the suspension. But if you plan to lift it and change suspension anyway, then don't spend the extra.

FWIW I off loaded mine quite a bit and it didn't have crawl control because it was a manual. I never missed it. Never really used the lockers either.

Resale will obviously be higher on the OR.

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Originally Posted by summit

2020 Taco TRD Sport Crew w 6ft bed... things to look out for? Do I really lose a lot over the TRD OffRoad?

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Agree with everything NR said. No locker, no multi terrain, no crawl control. So basically depends on how much actual wheeling you'd do. For me, it was absolutely none, except some rutted dirt roads covered with snow, and my 2019 Sport access cab 6MT did fine (with Nokian Hakka snows).

I liked the stiffer suspension because roads to ski hills are always curvy, and had the extra weight of a canopy for the winter months. I didn't find it harsh on road trips, but others have. Same goes for the seats.

The hood scoop sucks. It catches the sun and redirects it into your eye constantly. Was going to do a hood swap with a guy from the forums, but pandemic.

The '20s have Safety Sense, which adds a level of complication if you want to add some lift - or even change the grille style.

More generic points:

All 2nd and 3rd gens are loud; the double cabs a little less so. That's mostly from tire noise, but the exhaust drone of the 3rd gen can be grating on long drives. All 3rd gens have limited forward visibility if you're tall(ish). Like being first at a traffic light, I often needed to lean forward a bit to see it.

If you're looking at a 3rd gen with the 6MT there's a known issue with the third gear synchro grinding. And the clutch pedal accumulator artificially softens engagement. And even then, the pedal spring is too stiff IMO.

Very useful info. I doubt I 'd need terrain slect or crawl control, but a diff would be nice. Guess I can add it.

What sensor is in the grill?

Does TSS-P fail on lifts because it expects to be a certain height? Can the dealer program it for a lift?

Anyon putting bikes over the tailgate while using a hightop topper?

Man, I really just want a 2025 T4R, but don't want to pay the price (or wait).

Radar cruise sensor is in the front grill and bumper I think. ETA: and collision avoidance.

If you don’t get an oem (trd) lift, then it could be problematic recalibrating the ldws when you change the windshield and stuff.

I put bikes over the tailgate with a short topper even. Just put em on then lift the gate. Not as easy but totally doable. Make sure you get a topper with stiff pistons on the rear window because you dont want it bouncing and hitting the bikes on bumpy roads. Best I found was my ARE topper. Side windoors are also very nice to have. Leer with frameless window sucked.

It's the radar, and it wants to be at a certain and height and rake. Some dealers have refused to re-calibrate it due to the liability.

The common thinking is just bigger tires, or an inch or two of lift is probably fine, but lift plus big wheels plus stock grille theoretically stacks the difference beyond tolerance. The TRD Pro grille (and some aftermarket) correct for taller suspension by placing the radar unit lower.

As for bikes, I've put bikes over the tailgate with a Leer 180 mid-height canopy no problem.

Why a 6th gen 4R and not a 5th gen?

And feel free to laugh because I'm looking at a 3rd gen Taco, but, the 2024 5th gen T4R has basically the same performance and mileage as a 2004 4th gen T4R. That just irks me for price at hand.

I'd probably be plenty happy with a 5th gen T4R. I could also argue that I should get a Tundra since I'm thinking about towing.

Yeah, Toyota truck reliability is based on not extracting much power from one cc of fuel/air, so they don't get great mileage either. 3rd gen Taco is by far the worst of those three for towing capacity. The 2GR 3.5 doesn't have much grunt, and the variable valve train system moves from Otto to Atkinson cycles for max EPA fuel economy. Forcing it to stay in Otto kills mpg.

There was also a lot of internet chatter of very early mechanical failures (shrug emoji here).

Of course all this is moot if we're just talking pop-up or bob, etc.

If you are considering a Tundra and you buy a Tacoma you might regret it. I did. Much prefer the bigger truck with more power and same fuel economy.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

If you are considering a Tundra and you buy a Tacoma you might regret it. I did. Much prefer the bigger truck with more power and same fuel economy.

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Do you really get the same MPG ? I can't say i regret buying the Tacoma but my needs are simple, I'm not a large person I don't tow, the most I carry is an e-bike or a pair of skis so I would be fine keeping it but yeah I just drove the tundra with TRD suspension I really liked it and its time for an upgrade

Dream:
Tacoma sized quad cab with 6.5 bed and a reliable 320hp 450 ft-lb engine able to tow 10k, 20 city 25 hwy unloaded.
Not too much to ask, eh?

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

Do you really get the same MPG ? I can't say i regret buying the Tacoma but my needs are simple, I'm not a large person I don't tow, the most I carry is an e-bike or a pair of skis so I would be fine keeping it but yeah I just drove the tundra with TRD suspension I really liked it and its time for an upgrade

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Slightly better with the Taco but only like 2-3 mpg. And for how muck more you can do with the tundra, it is totally worth it unless you need something smaller or hate driving parking big trucks. Or live in the city or something like that.

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Originally Posted by heckacali

Dream:
Tacoma sized quad cab with 6.5 bed and a reliable 320hp 450 ft-lb engine able to tow 10k, 20 city 25 hwy unloaded.
Not too much to ask, eh?

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Close

Tacoma Trailhunter iForce Max Turbo Hybrid:
quad cab, 6'2" bed, 323hp 465 ft-lb twin turbo i4 hybrid engine tows 6K, 22 city 24 hwy

$64K too rich for my blood

what really bugs me on the tacoma is the 6spd auto constantly dropping 2 gears to wind out 4th at 100kph on the highway

I guess you can reprogram the transmission to avoid some of those gear shifting shenanigans?

Newest tacos have 8spd

Tacoma also needs washing, I think I'm just gona get the Tundra instead

the 6spd is not seamless when it hunts up and down hopefully the 8 spd will be better at that ?

Tundra has a lot of power with a 10 spd and i couldn't tell when it was shifting

Noticeable gear hunting is always annoying.

Chiming in to add that putting a higher flow muffler (stock muffler rusted out) on my land cruiser (4.7L) improved mpg by 2-3. It was about $250 a few years ago. Apparently, this was a known thing by some mechanics. My muffler guy is a huge toyo fan boy. Not sure if same results will be experienced by the engines under this current discussion.

i wasnt about to mess with the warranty by reprogramming the transmission on a brand new Tacoma so I checked how the Tundra was on the highway this time. IME you really notice hunting on a 6 spd but when you have 10 gears the increments are so small you barely notice the shifts up or down in fact as i understand it the 10psd in an F-150 sometimes skips gears depending on throttle load. I did a pretty good long vetting on the Tundra test drive to the point the truck salesman called me to ask where I was and are things ok

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

Noticeable gear hunting is always annoying.

Chiming in to add that putting a higher flow muffler (stock muffler rusted out) on my land cruiser (4.7L) improved mpg by 2-3. It was about $250 a few years ago. Apparently, this was a known thing by some mechanics. My muffler guy is a huge toyo fan boy. Not sure if same results will be experienced by the engines under this current discussion.

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A muffler replacement that generates that much MPG means the old muffler was clogged.

Apparently, it’s known for those 4.7L Toyota engines. I talked about it afterwards with my old neighbor mechanic because I was like, “damn, I should do this for my other cars,” and his response was that I would not see that response from other Toyota engines. The mechanic that installed the muffler told me that most people won’t see that increase for that engine because their driving behaviors change as a result of new muffler because of the noticeable increase in power and sound. This is all hearsay, I guess.

I have a really loud muffler on my Tundra "BroMobile" and it definitely keeps me from flooring it unless I need to. It sits at 11.9 mpg because it has a camper on it, a lift and E-rated AT3s . The muffler was a dual and even louder than it is now, but I had it re-welded to one pipe and out the passenger side so it isn't quite as loud. My friend's '09 Tundra is totally stock and gets 12.9 mpg so either there is something wrong with hers, or mine isn't doing that bad.

My '01 Seqoia w/ 4.7L is getting (reporting anyway) 18mpg which I guess is pretty incredible.

Try not to look at gas mileage much anyway because I got such a good deal on both vehicles that it would take a while for the gas saving to pencil out as a real loss for me and to b honest, these might be the last gasser v8's I ever own and I really like em.

On the Tacoma forums I frequent, the OTT tune is very favored to improve throttle response and eliminate gear hunting in the 3rd Gens. They are around $500 and they will customize it to your preferences. If I was buying a 3G, I would definitely look into one.

https://overlandtailor.com/

Toyota is replacing 102,000 Tundra/ Lexus engines, that is the twin Turbo 3.4 L

https://www.motor1.com/news/727930/t...-tundra-lexus/

I asked my sales guy about this problem, he said they have sold 200 Tundras and have not lost any engines

altho i would bet some of those 200 Tundras will be recalled cuz its 2 yrs worth of production

edit: Also 661,000 trucks and SUV's for driveline issues, read the wholelink cuz thereare 2 recall notices in there

https://www.motor1.com/news/710474/t...0-trucks-suvs/

Anyone here have the new LC 250? Giving them a couple years or so then may look into a used one.

New 4Runner just came out as well.


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