The chainsaw thread...

i think my ms361 had a bit of a rough life with the previous owner. i have used it the past two days and today it had a problem. it was smoking a little bit when running full throttle in use. i thought it might be chain oil and didn't think anything of it. later, it died as soon as it revved down to idle. it was near the end of my use for the day; fired it up and finished the job; died again as soon at it reached idle. fired it up again at the garage to let the engine cool while i put a few things away. i checked on it after a minute or two and it was smoking like a mofo from the cover that goes over the end of the bar, chain sprocket, clutch, etc. i cut the engine, took off the cover, and shit was super hot (clutch). i tried firing it up again and it die as soon as it idled. i'm now questioning if i'd fired it up in warm start and not flick the throttle to idle down.... not sure where to start. suggestions? :)

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

i think my ms361 had a bit of a rough life with the previous owner. i have used it the past two days and today it had a problem. it was smoking a little bit when running full throttle in use. i thought it might be chain oil and didn't think anything of it. later, it died as soon as it revved down to idle. it was near the end of my use for the day; fired it up and finished the job; died again as soon at it reached idle. fired it up again at the garage to let the engine cool while i put a few things away. i checked on it after a minute or two and it was smoking like a mofo from the cover that goes over the end of the bar, chain sprocket, clutch, etc. i cut the engine, took off the cover, and shit was super hot (clutch). i tried firing it up again and it die as soon as it idled. i'm now questioning if i'd fired it up in warm start and not flick the throttle to idle down.... not sure where to start. suggestions? :)

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Sounds like an oil delivery issue. Run it sans bar and chain and check oil output. Turn it to max (screw on bottom of saw) If a problem, make sure the oil pickup filter is clean--use a small hook to fish it out..... and also wash the oil tank with gas, but also run the saw to flush the oil lines. If no workee still, the saw will need a new oil pump drive gear or oil pump..both easily accessed and inexpensive.

Also, don't run it if the chain is dull. that is hard on all saw components

Thank you for the direction of diagnosis, cleaning, and replacement. I was starting to consider that I needed to disassemble the clutch, inspect, clean, replace as needed, lube and reassemble. I'll start with the oiling system.

Thanks again for the knowledgable input for me and this general thread!

cheers

One things about a short bar is that there are fewer teeth to sharpen, which is nice. However, the point about ones back is equally valid, especially the older I get. I need a quiver of saws.

You can get skip tooth chain if you want less teeth to sharpen/ less weight, but seriuosly for the casual user with a saw this small lMO just go with whatever sthil specs for the stock setup

I've never had a clutch slip to the point of overheating all the components. They either engage or they don't....and only a broken clutch spring or a worn out drum would cause slippage, which would smell -just like an automotive clutch slipping.

Also, when reassembling the clutch drum, take note of the notch on it, which must engage the oil pump drive mechanism. It can be a bit delicate to get them lined up.

Try cleaning all the shit out of there, it could be just jammed with sawdust/oil that is burning?

It's a Hi perf engine, I clean off all the sawdust from under the covers, swap out/clean air filter, sharpen Chain after a day of cutting

To check oil flow (every tank full), I hold the saw so that the bar tip is pointed at something a couple inches away that will show oil, and rev it up. Oil should splatter off the end of the bar and show on the surface of whatever the bar is pointed at.

Thanks. I should get some time tomorrow to thoroughly look and wrench but it appears that the crankcase around the clutch drum has melted a bit....

My old mans 028 Super that I've now been running for 10+ years seemed really tired last year. It's a great saw, I would love to revive it.

This is getting fun :)
Attachment 182970

Back in its native habitatAttachment 183033

What was the problem?

The overheating issue was my operator error, I think, with chain brake on at "warm start" idle. Hopefully only a mistake made once. I've never made that mistake before.

I disassembled and heavily cleaned the clutch and brake. The worm screw and spring were not installed correctly, which explains the oil smoke issue, as rbtree diagnosed. I put everything back together the way it is supposed to go. Seems to oil good now and no smoke.

It wasn't firing up right after that work and I troubleshooted it to a potential carb issue. I couldn't get to the carb because the cotter screws that the carb is skewered/mounted on were bent (wtf?!). After getting some free help at the saw shop prying things apart, I got the carb and the adjacent plastic bits (eg baffle) off and bought some new cotter screws. I disassembled the crank case from the tank to get access to removing and reinstalling the cotter screws. I also disassembled and cleaned the carb, replaced the fuel hose, cleaned a lot of other bits, and replaced several random screws that were missing.

I now know a lot more about that saw! And it's getting closer to a good baseline condition.

When I can track down my friend, the arborist, with some free time, I'm going to get his help fine tuning the carb.

Until then, it seems like it's running pretty well and I can get back on with my thinning and then firewood work.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

The overheating issue was my operator error, I think, with chain brake on at "warm start" idle. Hopefully only a mistake made once. I've never made that mistake before.

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:redface:

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I disassembled and heavily cleaned the clutch and brake. The worm screw and spring were not installed correctly, which explains the oil smoke issue, as rbtree diagnosed. I put everything back together the way it is supposed to go. Seems to oil good now and no smoke.

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This place is pretty good sometimes.

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I now know a lot more about that saw!

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Yep.

Argh

That saw is still misbehaving. Fired it up today during a lunch break to cut down some "weeds". The thing was running pretty erratically when the throttle was open and no oil was hitting the bar. I removed cover and bar to see if oil was coming out the "port" that reaches the bar and I could not get the thing to fire up. Without diving too deeply yet, it seems like something is going on with the oiling system and the carb. I actually saw my friend who is a career saw wielder, but forgot to talk about the saw (I had not experimented today's problem yet). coordinating our schedules has been pretty tricky. We are both busy parents with jobs that are more than full time.

You guys should look at Chainsaws & Forestry on Facebook

^Liked!

Rideit, what ever happened to that guy.

Got a saw show going on at my house today.

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mikeyb - they toppin' or droppin'?

Droppin'

Most of it free to me paid for by PG&E for power line safety.

Got a couple of the boys coming back this weekend to do a side job. $100/tree to climb and drop a few right by the house.

Those all beetle kill, Mike?

Yes

Going to mill them? :)

Maybe some of it. Too small for the 372 and mill I have access to, but if I can find something appropriate I might. Plenty I can do with just the logs.

Either way I've got another metric shit ton of pine on the ground.

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Originally Posted by ~mikey b

I've got another metric shit ton of pine on the ground.

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yep, me, too. more to come, too. my big living (keeper) pines are all looking good so far. no evidence (sawdust) of boring that i've noticed so far.

both of my saws are currently out of commission at the moment due to oiling issues. my nicer saw (one pictured earlier) has a clutch that i can't seem to get loose. i need to borrow the neighbor's impact wrench for a shot or two. i haven't started troubleshooting the other one. it's oiling more as an ooze and not getting much oil to the bar (i've cleaned up as much as i can w/o removing the clutch or cleaning out the oil tank. regardless, before the second one started to be a problem this weekend, i cut down about 30 "trees"; doug firs, almost all under 4 inches dbh.

i look where i did the work and can hardly notice a difference in the tree density - ugh.

Yeah this is actually going to really change the canopy around the house quite a bit. A few big pine and cedar and one giant redwood still towering over the compound, but much tree cover gone. Should improve garden sun exposure and certainly reduces our fire hazard. Ground fuels and ladder fuels I took care of, now the canopy is better.

Idle curiosity. In areas where it is encouraged to remove trees from around dwellings due to fire danger, what is the approach to preventing soil erosion especially since the areas are often prone to drought followed by heavy rain cycles?

^^^ Not an expert, but the root systems are usually left in place to rot out, so that holds the soil in place for quite a while on its own.

This sucks...
http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/cal...e85312432.html

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Tree professionals are amazing. My brother in-law was one for a while here on the East Coast.

PG&E hazard tree removal contractor
Mountain F Enterprises - Lotus, CA

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Originally Posted by riser3

Idle curiosity. In areas where it is encouraged to remove trees from around dwellings due to fire danger, what is the approach to preventing soil erosion especially since the areas are often prone to drought followed by heavy rain cycles?

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Perennial native grasses.

Yeah that's what we are doing....creating a meadow to skip in.

https://www.facebook.com/jeremy.cado...2221445455395/

And they wonder why drugs and alcohol are pervasive in a faller's after work relaxation...

Edit - if someone can better imbed the vid, please do. I suck at the internet.

Favorite small high end saw that's not for in-tree work and why? Go!

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

Favorite small high end saw that's not for in-tree work and why? Go!

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Stihl 261, light, powerful and it fits in my Dakine builder pack.

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Originally Posted by Powder Ho

Stihl 261, light, powerful and it fits in my Dakine builder pack.

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Nailed it.

The 261 is or was the smallest pro quality saw Sthil makes when I got mine, I was also looking for the husky 353 but it was replaced by the 550xp and Sthil was giving away some freebies so I got the 261, been really happy

The reasons are more power higher revs, magnesium engine cases insted of plastic and it's very noticeable of you are operating next to home owner quality saws