Just take the brakes offQuote:
Originally Posted by filthyfrenchbum
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Just take the brakes offQuote:
Originally Posted by filthyfrenchbum
The 'new' heel mounted brake on the 20/21 Freeraider 14's is not new at all has it has been proven on the other ATK models for some years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyfrenchbum
Solid! I’m really digging my trofeo plus, and just got some freeride spacers from skimo.co, the al05- they just got them back in stock. I haven’t got mine on yet but reviews are strong in regards to improving skiing quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by bean
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Curious if it will fit for you, tried this with maestrales and trofeo/helio 180s and was about 1 mm too close on the lowest spacer setting. I may try to mod the spacer at some point but would need to sand down the base a little or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
Maybe modify the boot sole? Take a couple mm off with a razor blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
Has anyone done a release test (Vermont calibrator?) with and without freeride spacers?
I actually contacted ATK / Hagan about this... i have the Maestrale etc. it is NOT an issue according to themQuote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
Once you weight the boot and stand the pins align correctly. After a few uses it seems to have worked itself out. My assumption is the stack up analysis probably had a tight tolerance.
Also, you should sand down the top of the free ride spacer if its an issue for you, dont touch your boot, you can always add a spacer section if you over do it, not so on a boot lol
FYI - i had some icing issues with the spacer where the little screw was getting some ice build up on it as it has a little recess in it, i bought some telemark anti ice tape for the Meijo and put it on (super thin) and voila nothing since...
bought a BD 6.4mm shim for the toe (skimoco) - right as rain nowQuote:
Originally Posted by ColMan
I looked at putting on the freeride spacer yesterday, looks like it’s about 2mm too tall. I’m debating grinding material off the base to make it fit. $40 gamble- but folks say big skiing improvement...
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Pics of the tape....
Attachment 349553
Which ones did you get, they don’t list ones compatible with Helios
Question to this group and could be my over analytical engineeriness...
Is this normal? the toe of 350 (trofeo) has a little side to side play? not a ton but noticeable... is this normal?
Attachment 349555Attachment 349556
This is with maestrales and trofeo + (helio 180)?Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
helio 350. Trofeo toe, raider towerQuote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
AL 09 is compatibleQuote:
Originally Posted by cat in january
I just had 3 pairs of Crests mounted at skimo (2 for me, 1 for GF). Some of the levers had play, others didn't. Skimo said that is completely normal for ATK toes. I'm still annoyed about it especially since there is no way to get rid of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
Trimming AT boot soles to improve binding compatibility is frequently necessary, especially to avoid interference with toe wings on tech bindings, but also when an AFD is involved and you want a clean interface. This is because there is no standard (unless you have Gripwalk boots, I guess) that dictates sole shape or thickness. This is also why the freeride spacers need to be adjustable. I'm not sure why you think it obviously makes more sense to grind away on a durable metal part than to trim a boot sole that is going to wear down anyway, especially if you ever walk on rocks. Trimming takes a few minutes with a razor blade and can be done very selectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
Got that, I was asking which shim.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
its plastic, not metalQuote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
https://skimo.co/bnd-shimsQuote:
Originally Posted by cat in january
Classic 6.4
to ISBD, again, its preference, but i do have a brand new pair of maestrale RS, i mounted noticed a slight interference between the lowest free ride spacer and the pin height.
I contacted ATK and HAGAN with pictures and the consensus was it should not be an issue, again it was 1mm +/- .5, once i weighted the boot, and compressed the vibram sole a bit it lined up perfectly and after a few days of use, not an issue.
As an engineer i get that stack ups dont always align and that some alterations or modifications do need to be done.
This may be a bit off topic but I noticed the Crest toes don't really open up enough to release my Hawx XTD boots. You have to yank the boots out of the toes even when they're open all the way. Is this a scenario where I should shave down the sides of the toe lug?Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
That wouldn't concern me at all. What is common with some boot-binding combos is that the sole puts pressure on the toe wings when they are closed (which could affect release characteristics) or rubs against the wings when you are walking (which is annoying). If you just use a set up like this the sole with compress or crumble off. But it's very easy to solve with a razor blade. I did this minor surgery on an old pair of Maestrale RS's (I can't remember which binding they couldn't play ice with- maybe Kingpins?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
The other scenario I've seen is that a sole lug might interfere with a consistent AFD contact. This was the case when I used Shifts with Hawx XTD's. Instead of the AFD making contact with the smooth Walk-to-Ride block in the middle of the forefoot, the AFD pushed against the corner of two rubber lugs. After a couple small cuts everything lined up just right.
In both cases the amount of material I moved was very small. And I didn't come up with this idea. I read about here and years ago on wildsnow and possibly tetonat as well.
Trimming the top seems wrong to me. Isn't it a sliding AFD sort of construction? And yeah, trimming the boot heel makes more sense to me (unless, you perhaps trim the spacer from the bottom).Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
[edit] .5 to 1m? Follow their advice [/edit]
... Thom
Any other templates for the R12/14 floating around other than the original ones from ATK?
Having to rely on the midsole mark on my boots is a bit of a PITA as they're both chewed up by rocks and hard to see.
Just pen in the line on the boot shell so that it's easily visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrgha
The ATK website is showing some new templates for some of their models but they can't be downloaded yet. Hopefully they'll finally be offering decent templates with sole length marking etc.
I've mounted 2 sets of R-12's I'm happy with by taping across the ski where my heel / front edge of boot fall with a correct reference point on the ski's relative to center. Toe piece attached to boot, place it, find the center point with equal dimensions side to side and mark hole 1. Pilot hole first, check it and if good take it out to correct size. Screw the binding to ski just enough to offer resistance from rotating. Check for centering again & if good mark / drill the other 3. The sequence in which you tighten screws can change the orientation a very small amount, isn't unusual with no jig but didn't happen with my 2 mounts. Toes tightened down with a clipped in boot will let you align the heel pins to the boot. With a movable heel piece, be sure you have it where you want it, especially if a second pair of boots with different bsl will be used. Get hole 1 established, tighten a screw, mark / drill the remaining 3. If you're careful and double check before drilling, you'll have a pair mounted in about the time it takes me to drive to a shop, drop off, return. Roughly 1.5-2 hours and that's at a leisurely pace. Considering a few RT 2.0's I did the same way, I've only had 1 hole I fudged a tiny bit.
Where did you get the longer screws you needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
Edit: Nevermind. Skimo has them. I’m very stupid.
I quiver killer so just some longer screws, but you can buy longer screws at skimoco
I contacted ATK this morning about the missing download links for the new templates, and they promptly replied that they have just uploaded them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Apparently this new template is for bindings with serial numbers starting with X. I can't see any difference from first glance, but I'll look closer when I get home.
Edit: Upon closer inspection I see that the two front holes in the toe piece are 15 mm narrower than on the "old" template. I guess there's a new toe coming?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrgha
New toe mounting pattern for Freeraider 14, C-Raider 12, Raider 12, Raider 10 Release 10, Front 10 & Candy 5 bindings
ATK have just advised me that they have a patent issue with their current binding mounting pattern in the above models so are having to change it. The new toe patterns for these bindings will see the front toe hole locations narrowing from 45mm centres to 30mm centres. The rear toe holes and the heel holes are unchanged. This means that the new toes will use the P1-P1-H1-H1 locations on the M06 jig. The new models will have an X prefix on the model number to identify them plus a large warning sticker on the box. Anyone that has an M07 jig won't have these new holes so they can return their jig to their distributor and exchange it for the latest M06 jig for only a small upcharge charge.
However, it's unlikely that any of these new pattern bindings will be available before the 21/22 season so there's no need to panic!!
To be honest it'd be better if they'd not said anything until the end of the season as it'll only cause confusion.
Causing confusion doesn't really seem to be much of a concern for ATKQuote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Geez! Nothing like a company (not ATK) trying to make this all the more difficult. I get it. They don't want it to be easy for people to replace their beloved xxxx binders with ATKs. How many people (outside this community) change bindings on an existing mount, however?
A mounting pattern being patentable? I'd love to see the engineering justification for that one.
What's interesting (from a technical perspective) is that they chose to narrow the mounting footprint of their burly bindings (to one of their other standards, as opposed to just altering it by 2-3mm). Perhaps their mounting jig was a consideration, but given their strong engineering bias, it makes me wonder how important a wide mounting footprint really is. I've always doubted its importance, but have no technical basis for saying so.
... Thom
Just a pic with my Maestrale RS after a couple days after using, the pins align where they need to... Attachment 349727
Feckin' lawyers eh! Although whoever holds the patent (and we can make an educated guess who that might be) is probably wanting to be vindictive if ATK are now kicking their asses.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I was surprised by that too. Was talking to another trade guy this afternoon about this and he visited the Fritschi factory at the time that they were developing the Vipec and they told him about mounting patterns being within patents. ATK's email actually says the patent issue is in certain countries (they don't say which) but as they sell globally they need a solution that's a solution that's global.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Me too. I can see how the width of the base plate might give additional support but as long as the binding base is flat/tight on the top sheet then it can't any practical difference. Everyone raves about the Pivot heel as being the gnarliest on the planet yet it has the smallest mounting pattern on the alpine market and it's only matched in size by skimo race tech heels weighing under a 100g. The weakest link in the system has got to be the construction of the ski, especially on lightweight touring skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
LOL. You're right. All these different overlapping models/names is straight out of the Dynafit playbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
This isn't specifically an ATK question, more of a general ski tech jong question but I moved to a 2 touring boot quiver and I will be moving the heelpieces on my Crests back and forth a lot this season as I switch between boots. None of my screwdriver bits are a perfect fit in the adjustment screw and I don't want to end up stripping out the screw over time. Anybody have recommendations for a cheap bit or screwdriver for this? Seems like Pozi #3 is the best fit for most bindings, is this true for ATK stuff or do the euros do it different?
Generally a Pozi 3. You can buy nice Wera brand ones on Amazon for $15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Pozi is a Euro standard not seen in the US much. Pretty much all bindings are Euro so there you go! Shame it’s not more prevalent here as it’s much better than Phillips.
Indeed! Posi-drive is so much more ... positive :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
This should probably go in the stuff you put in your pack thread. I've been re-thinking my touring tool kit and picked this up.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have a standard Posi #3 for the home shop, and you should be able to find them pretty easily as well.
The jury is still out on this screwdriver for my pack. I wanted slightly longer bits than those on the BD but not this long. The BD started spitting the bits out (good luck, finding those small bits in the snow) . This one is only 22g heavier than the BD (136 vs. 114g). I'm conflicted. The BD's T-handle seems like a good idea for a field screwdriver (although not so good for in the field length adjustment). Pluses and minuses as usual. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of the click-stop ratchet on the BD (possible point of failure).
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1500_.jpg
... Thom
Do you carry any bits besides the PZ-3 out into the field with you? If so why?