Unmounted pair of white room renegades for sale here in Niseko at Mountain Shop 343... under $450 usd with conversion rate
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Unmounted pair of white room renegades for sale here in Niseko at Mountain Shop 343... under $450 usd with conversion rate
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You could have a pair made by Endre Hals i Oppdal, NO if you´re willing to pony up the $$$. He made the original set(s?) of protos for/with Hoji. Get together a group buy, and you could probably get a discount.
Interesting process in which the skis can be remade (new laminates etc) when you´ve beaten them to shit.
Did he made the EHP also ? Or they started the collaboration with the renegade ?
From EVI Skis : All constructions, geometry and graphic options are possible. Prog skis cost about 13 000-20 000 NOK / 1 300-2 000 EUR
Not cheap ...
I think it started with the renegade. @endre?
I’m not in the market but that’s where I’ll be turning if my Ren ever breaks. I love and covet that Hals construction of one sidewall-to-sidewall piece of core.
Never once have I wished my skis were lighter. And with so few pieces glued together, it’s hard to improve upon from a longevity perspective.
A week of skiing in revy - Rogers pass and I love the skis. Definitely easier on the kick turns and the legs , feel a fair bit more maneuverable in the trees than the old 196. Can’t comment on durability as a very deep and soft snowpack
Bump.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Anyone have a rocker profile pic of the 2020 Renegade ? What's the true length of the 184 ?
There’s a paywall blister flash review on the new 191
Any more comments on the new skis? Looking at grabbing a pair as a touring option to supplement my orange raven pair.
A few guys from here bought some blemish last week, hopefully they’ll post some reviews soon ;)
Hows the shape of the new 191 doing? Hope they build a heavier version, full maple like the old days.
I second that request. I would love for somebody give us an update. The lack of discussion has led me to believe the cult is fading.
Some pictures here around the middle of the page : https://www.skipass.com/forums/sport...1535-8550.html
Basically it’s not a renegade anymore but a fat Hoji. The poster said flex is a bit stiffer than an Hoji but less than an old renegade.
Some history....have owned 186cm 2013 Owl Rens (sold) and 186cm 2015 pre-Vibe Veil Rens (gave to my 20 yr old son). I like Rens. Have owned 187cm Hojis too. Have skied my son’s 179cm Hojis (felt short). My wife skis the 179cm women’s Hoji. Been on Icelantics and Factions the last few years. Sold the Icelantics.
Got some Pivots sitting in the garage looking for a home. Was considering some of the proto Rens in Sterbenz Stash for $399? Not sure if they are 2021 protos?
Then got an email today from 4FRNT saying that this year's new 184cm Wolf Rens were on sale for $450 today.
Wouldn’t mind being on a Ren again, or a fat Hoji. So I bought em.
Here ya go....newly arrived....btw I love how 4FRNT stuff just arrives at my door in North Vancouver...no tax, no duty, no shipping. Love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
2020 Wolf Renegade, 184cm:
——————————————
Tip-to-tail straight pull is 182cm.
Tape ran along the base is 183.75cm.
Rec Mount is exactly 86cm from tail (so appro. -5.875cm?).
I mounted my 186cm 2013 and 2015 Rens at -5cm, will likely do the same with these ones.
Pics....note the pic with the strap....it’s not super tight and the strap is right at rec boot center.
Got the summer to decide to either mount Pivots or Shifts on my Rens?
Attachment 324248Attachment 324249Attachment 324250
Pics up.
Lemme know if you need any more pics/measurements/details?
What’s the flex like compared to older rens?
Here are shitty pics of a used set of 2015 196 Ren for comparison Attachment 324455
Attachment 324456
My roommate got a pair of the 191s on sale. I will post a pic comparing the rocker between the different pairs I have in a few days.
The ski is definitely softer than years past by maybe 10% but it’s not super soft.
191 weighs 2180g and the reflect tec is still there, the rocker matches the sidecut perfectly so im guessing it has the same rocker profile as the hoji.
I’ll have a pair of both the 2015 186cm and 2020 184cm Rens in my hands tomorrow. Will flex em both and let you know. Can do side by side profile pics too.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
Below is a vid of my son flexing the new 2020 184cm Ren vs the 2015 186cm Ren.
He first said that the 2015 felt 20% stiffer, but we each kept flexing and later agreed on the older HALS Rens being approx. 10% or so stiffer, after much flexing and much obsessing. So not as stiff. But not noodles. Definitely more tip and tail rocker in the new ones. The new 184cm Ren is supposedly 1,950gm per ski. Pretty light for a 122mm waisted ski. I’m pretty happy. They look/feel great.
Can’t wait to ski these. Damn you Co-Vid.
Attachment 324548Attachment 324549Attachment 324583Attachment 324584
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRXEY3g0iOQ
Thanks for the update. They look legit. Can’t wait to hear people report back. But damn glad I have 3 back up pairs of HALS construction renegades.
So I skied the Hals for years, the blue/white version (2017?) and now the 2019. This season nearly always in pow ( sled skiing) but with one resort day. 196 in the older versions, 191 in the newer
To me it felt like the personality was the same. Entirely, but with less effort due to a shorter length and lighter weight. But stability, slarviness, attitude was the same. So I'm a big fan. I cant comment on durability too much as with a lack of early season skiing I never really smashed them off any rocks. But I was very satisfied with them
Out of curiosity, what year did HALS construction end?
I ski the 2015s posted above and have a backup pair of 2012 owls that I'm hoarding in my garage for when the 2015s die.
Looks like my 2015s are HALS
Attachment 324736
I believe it was 2018 when they sold.
11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18 made in whiteroom, SLC
19/20 made in utopie(?), Canada
11/12/13/14/15/16 186 around 2.3kg +- 100g, 196 around 2500g +- 100g
17/18 186 2050g +- 100g, 196 2100 +- 100g
19 184 1900g, 191 2000g
20 184 2050g, 191 2200g (I think 4frnt weights are a bit low by 50-70g, all the ones I’ve seen measure heavier)
2011 - full wood sidewall hals, more rocker, stiffer, only 186, full maple core
2012 - full wood sidewall, hals, first 196 very stiff, 186 a bit softer than 11, maple core with poplar center
2013 - full wood sidewall, hals, both 186 and 196 a bit softer, maple core with poplar center
2014 - semi cap wood sidewall(too prevent chipping), hals, slightly softer than 13, maple core with aspen center(might be poplar, but I think it’s aspen)
2015 - semi cap wood sidewall, hals, same flex, maple core aspen center
2016 - semi cap ABS sidewall, vibeveil rubber from here on, still a heavy core. Not sure if it’s considered hals, but it doesnt have a wood sidewall so I would guess no. Maple core with aspen center
2017 - lighter core maple around bindings, aspen in tips with extra carbon for stiffness, flex is still somewhere around 14/15/16
2018 - same topsheet as 2017, same ski
2019 - new mold/shape, new 4frnt, bastard renegade with a soft flex due to skinny base and edge, same aspen/maple core
2020 - new mold/shape, stiffer flex, lighter weight and 10-15% softer than previous, but the ski has more rebound and feels much snappier when hand flexing. Same aspen/maple core
2021 - 4frnt makes the core out of lead and guy fiete is on the topsheet cooking mac and cheese :fm:
If this is correct it's the mo' bestest piece of tech information I've seen in ages. Do you have a similiar summary of the Hoji?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
Might not be as accurate as I haven’t owned almost all of them like I have the renegade.
All made by elan, slovenia? All semi - cap
13/14/15/16: 187 around 2.2kg, 195 around 2.4kg
17/18/19/20: 187 around 1.9kg, 195 around 2-2.15kg
2013: softest, heavy core(poplar/beech), turned up tip
2014: stiffer, heavy core(poplar/beech), turned up tip
2015: same flex, heavy core(poplar/beech) turned up tip
2016: Not sure on flex should be similar, heavy core(either poplar/beech or poplar/ash catalog confusing), new gradual tipshape, vibeveil rubber from here on
2017: New light core poplar/paulownia, stiffness a bit softer than previous. Smooth tip rise
2018: Same as 17, 4frnt bought by jlev, but dont think he had time to change anything
2019: New 4frnt, ski still made by elan should be pretty much the same
2020: Same as 19
Somewhere between 17 and 20 they added neotip making the tips lighter. I think it might have been for 19.
Wow, thanks for the info!!
Early Hojis were semi cap and from Elan for sure. I thought they moved all production to Canada after the sale but maybe I’m wrong about that part.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
The only white room skis were Renegade, Raven and Wise
Im pretty sure they only moved the whiteroom skisQuote:
Originally Posted by Supermoon
Utopie, our Canadian factory, produces - Ren, Raven, InThayne and (new for 20/21 season) Devastator.
mr_pretzel, hats off for an absolutely legendary Ren timeline. **cue standing applause
4FRNT, please bring back the EHP, we need a 116mm ski with a flat camber, same as the Raven. Please :-)
^^^
This. Pretty please
^^^
^^^
And while you're at it, bring back White Room built skis and build the EHP there.
-Would anyone ever want to see the Hoji rocker flattened a bit to be more like the Raven? Sort of a hybrid EHP / Hoji?Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
-What in your opinion is our line currently missing? and what is it missing from a non diehard 4FRNT customer perspective?
-Any skis stand out as something that needs an update or redesign?
-Are you stoked on this past seasons graphics?
This crazy pandemic situation has given us some extra time to really think about our product and spend some time really diving into what we are doing well and what we need to do better. There is no better place to reach out and listen to our customers then here, as you all know the brand better than anyone out there. Would love to hear some feedback from this thread on the questions above! Cheers.
We have a pretty decent 4FRNT quiver in the family. I currently own 2020 184cm Renegades. My plan is to buy some 184cm Ravens next year and put Shifts on them. I've previously owned 184cm Devs, 181cm InThaynes, and 187cm Hojis too. My wife has 2018 179cm Hojis. My 2 sons (21 and 23 yrs old) each own 2018 181cm Inthaynes, and one also has 2015 186cm Rens and one has some 174cm Devs. My 9-year old daughter has 137cm Coyotes and 137cm Blondies. We've also owned MSP 99s recently too, but sold them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4FRNT_Skis
We also currently have 177cm Icelantic Maidens (wife) + 175cm Black Crows Camox (wife) and 177cm K2 Marksmans (me) + 183cm Faction Candide 5.0s (me) in our quivers.
Some comments/observations/desires:
Caveat...I don't know a ton about ski designing....and this probably needs its own thread.
1. Graphics: graphics on 2020 Rens, Ravens and Hojis are good, like the “Wolf” on the Rens. My fav graphic was the 2013 Pilsner Hojis (beer is classic and awesome!) and my 2013 Owl Rens were good too.
2. Sizing: I'm not a tall dude (5'7", 165 lbs) so it may just be me....
I get the range/lengths of sizing on the Rens/Ravens/Inthaynes/MSPs....ie one size in the low 180's and one size again in the low 190's?
I know that rockered skis like Rens and Ravens and Hojis ski shorter in feel due to the rocker profile. Skis with full rocker = less running surface. eg on the 184cm Raven/Ren means a 184cm skis shorter like a 180cm cambered ski.
eg., I like these sizings....
Rens 184/191
Ravens 184/190
InThaynes 181/188
MSP 181/187
But I dont' get the 4FRNT Dev sizing/lengths at 184/194? (IMO should be 181cm and 191cm?)
OR
the Hoji at 187/195 (IMO should be 184cm and 192cm).
Re the sizing on Hojis at 187cm and 195cm...I assume it's a 187cm Hoji and not a 184cm like the Ren/Raven sizing, as the 187 Hoji has more rocker = less running surface vs 184 Raven/Rens?. I see the running surface is pretty similar on each of a 184cm Raven (1160mm) vs 184cm Ren (1160mm) vs 187cm Hoji (1170mm)....but for a shorter guy like me who is 5'7"...a 187cm ski starts to get long cause we just have less leg length to move long skis around when skinning, or doing flip turns, in tight spots etc. So ya make the Hoji a tiny bit flatter like an Ren/Raven and then make it a 183-184cm? I'll buy one. PS I've skied the 179cm Hoji and it feels way too short.
I also know the 184cm Dev doesn't ski long (I'ved skied it), but the length just seems "off" at 184cm and 194cm for a freestyle ripper ski. But the Devs in my mind are a ski you rip around on everywhere, and the effective edge gets long on a 184cm ski when you roll it on edge (ie running surface on a 184cm Dev is 1486mm?, I'd probably buy a Dev if it was a 181/182cm. Dumb I know cause it's only 2-3 cm. But you asked.
3. Skis I want: Other than a 184cm Hoji and a 182cm Dev, I would also love a 4FRNT ski much like my 2020 183cm Faction Candide 5.0 (152mm-122mm-140mm), that is more shaped/more sidecut/less tip taper. The Faction 5.0s complement my Rens on inbound pow days, as it has a big non-tapered tip, that is not designed to porpoise in soft 3D snow like the Ren, so I find I can still rip groomers inbounds on the Faction on harder snow when the pow runs out vs the Rens that wants/needs softer 3D snow. The Faction Candide 5.0 is somewhat stiffish, and has flat rocker...so maybe make a Super Fat Devastator....with some wider tips eg kind of a 150mm-115mm-140mm and call it the 4FRNT Gladiator. In a 182cm and 192cm version please? This may overlap the InThayne though...I've skied the 181cm Inthayne, it's OK, pretty light and fun.
KC
YES ! I owned a 2014 Hoji (white boat). It was really great and intuitive in soft snow. But, I'm skiing in the alps and sometimes you have to go through some exposed icy traverse, or through an icy couloir to get to the powder. The Hojis were really scary in those conditions. Eventually I sold them after I thought I was going to kill myself on an exposed traverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4FRNT_Skis
I've owned a Raven 2016 v2 which was great. I sold it because I choosed to go lighter (BMT 109), and I regret it, I may buy a Raven for next season. That ski is perfect, rocker, length, everything. Grip on hard snow is good enough to be secure on exposed stuff.
I own a Renegade 2014 (wood). It's an awesome ski. The problem is, even for pow days it's a bit wide for the alps. Sometime in the alps we get pow for exemple above 2000m and rain below. On hard snow, 122mm is too wide and it gets tiring for the knees. For me the sweet spot is 116mm. Grip on hard snow, like with the raven, is good enough.
So for me the problem of the Hoji is that it's too much rockered.
That's why I was asking for a 116mm Raven, basically.
But if you update the Hoji with the raven's rocker, it's going to be the perfect ski, that would work also.
Sorry KC but for me, the Hoji lengths are perfect as is.
Current graphics are really great I like them.
If you make a Hoji with the Raven's rocker next year, or a 116mm ski with the Raven's rocker, I'll buy it full price :)
I was starting to think about a custom 116mm Raven made by Endre Hals actually :) But it's quite a lot of money.
Ya a 184cm 116mm Raven would work too....Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo