The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

I second that. An unmounted pivot heel is held together by a thin metal plate that, if you accidentally forget and put the brakes up when its still unmounted, can bend and allow the fucker blow to pieces on you. Binding still usable, but you have to reassemble it on the fly every time after that. Not to mention the other thing about an unmounted heel, where your OCD gets the best of you and you forget where to hold it when you flip the heel up, thus trapping your fucking fingers in the goddamned thing and have to free yourself somehow, using only your remaining hand and whatever nearby objects might be able to contribute to the effort, and then have what for some time after (if you’re lucky) will seem like permanent finger disfigurement.

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Originally Posted by lucknau

I second that. An unmounted pivot heel is held together by a thin metal plate that, if you accidentally forget and put the brakes up when its still unmounted, can bend and allow the fucker blow to pieces on you. Binding still usable, but you have to reassemble it on the fly every time after that. Not to mention the other thing about an unmounted heel, where your OCD gets the best of you and you forget where to hold it when you flip the heel up, thus trapping your fucking fingers in the goddamned thing and have to free yourself somehow, using only your remaining hand and whatever nearby objects might be able to contribute to the effort, and then have what for some time after (if you’re lucky) will seem like permanent finger disfigurement.

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Good advice right here.

If you don't need more than 14 DIN and aren't picky about being matchy-matchy, heels can be pretty easy to find. 14/18 and I think 12? DIN heels are identical other than spring and DIN indicator.

Read back through the thread, you'll see that a few of us do run CAST shoulder bolts & plate up front with Binding Freedom (or QK if you must) inserts for heels. Works great. I have three pairs of skis with one pair of bindings. 5-10 min to swap them over.

Anybody use Tecnica Zero G's with CAST 2.0 WTR AFDs? How's the "fit" of the toe?

(I know that it is not rated/certified/indemnified/whatever for 9523 boots, but looking for real world experience with this boot.)

Thanks y'all!

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Originally Posted by lucknau

I second that. An unmounted pivot heel is held together by a thin metal plate that, if you accidentally forget and put the brakes up when its still unmounted, can bend and allow the fucker blow to pieces on you. Binding still usable, but you have to reassemble it on the fly every time after that. Not to mention the other thing about an unmounted heel, where your OCD gets the best of you and you forget where to hold it when you flip the heel up, thus trapping your fucking fingers in the goddamned thing and have to free yourself somehow, using only your remaining hand and whatever nearby objects might be able to contribute to the effort, and then have what for some time after (if you’re lucky) will seem like permanent finger disfigurement.

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These will change your life.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SY580_.jpg

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

These will change your life.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SY580_.jpg

... Thom

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I want to know more. Do tell!

I understand nipple clamps can change your (sex) life, but what do they have to do with binding?

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Originally Posted by lucknau

I want to know more. Do tell!

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With the ski suspended (i.e. on tuning vice tip/tail supports), clamp down on the brake pad to hold the brakes in their (more or less) retracted position.

These clamps wiggle a bit and can pop off, but with a bit of patience (of which I have little), you can get them to stay in place. Overall, it simplifies the process.

The photo I snagged above is an Irwin Quick Grip.

https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-QUICK-G.../dp/B0000DD5XV

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

With the ski suspended (i.e. on tuning vice tip/tail supports), clamp down on the brake pad to hold the brakes in their (more or less) retracted position.

These clamps wiggle a bit and can pop off, but with a bit of patience (of which I have little), you can get them to stay in place. Overall, it simplifies the process.

The photo I snagged above is an Irwin Quick Grip.

https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-QUICK-G.../dp/B0000DD5XV

... Thom

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I'm not sure if you're brilliant, or we're all simpletons, but either way, this seems like it's going to make dealing with those annoying rear screws on pivot heels much easier. Thanks

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Originally Posted by WhetherMan

I'm not sure if you're brilliant, or we're all simpletons, but either way, this seems like it's going to make dealing with those annoying rear screws on pivot heels much easier. Thanks

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It's more like one day I was cursing at the problem like everyone else, and I looked straight ahead at my pegboard.

A clamp was staring at me ;-)

... Thom

And to think I was just gripping the brake pad and squeezing it with my palm like a savage before.

But on my one pivot mount today I totally used a small clamp and will be doing that again for the every pivot mount going forward.

Just another ski fix trick i'll have gleaned from Thom. Definitely a wealth of info.Mounting look heels sketch me out. Soo ez to strip a hole when the screw isnt aimed straight

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by grinch

Just another ski fix trick i'll have gleaned from Thom. Definitely a wealth of info.Mounting look heels sketch me out. Soo ez to strip a hole when the screw isnt aimed straight

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

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And I was mounting inserts when this idea slapped me across the face. The last thing you want to do is cross-thread an insert.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

And I was mounting inserts when this idea slapped me across the face. The last thing you want to do is cross-thread an insert.

... Thom

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Definitely. Pita removing and installing pin tech bindings after that

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by meter-man

Anybody use Tecnica Zero G's with CAST 2.0 WTR AFDs? How's the "fit" of the toe?

(I know that it is not rated/certified/indemnified/whatever for 9523 boots, but looking for real world experience with this boot.)

Thanks y'all!

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Any comments about this?

A buddy rephrased the question in an interesting way:

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Do you think a 9523 sole with a WTR AFD would release more predictably (laterally) than a full on, tech binding?

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So he's comparing this to a tech rig instead of an indemnified alpine rig.

Of course a rock embedded in the rubber sole is the wild card, but apart from that, what does the collective have to say?

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Any comments about this?
Do you think a 9523 sole with a WTR AFD would release more predictably (laterally) than a full on, tech binding?

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So when I got CAST this was something I was wrestling with. My daily driver boots came with interchangeable 9523 soles and in my very rough testing of pulling the boot laterally out of the binding on the bench with those soles mounted in the WTR AFD I was noticing two things:
1. Even without my body weight, it was noticeably stickier and harder to release than the same boot with alpine soles in Pivot 14 GWs
2. When I got to the point of almost releasing, where the boot should pop back into place, it would half snap back in and get stuck

This led me to be really uncomfortable with the idea of mounting those boots in that binding setup.

Sketch shit that I don't recommend you do incoming

So I didn't feel like getting new boots and did feel like making use of my friends 3D printer and after a few prototypes and some dremeling I arrived at this.

I've used this setup about 8 times now(I just took the last picture to show the wear), and it releases by hand very similar to the P14s at the same DIN(highly scientific hand test I know). I ate shit off a roller today and my left ski released without tearing every ligament in my body so I would say I'm pleased.

To directly answer you're question, I don't think 9523 soles on the WTR AFD are safer than tech bindings unless the rubber is really hard and somewhat slippery.

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Originally Posted by tdpdx

So when I got CAST this was something I was wrestling with. My daily driver boots came with interchangeable 9523 soles and in my very rough testing of pulling the boot laterally out of the binding on the bench with those soles mounted in the WTR AFD I was noticing two things:
1. Even without my body weight, it was noticeably stickier and harder to release than the same boot with alpine soles in Pivot 14 GWs
2. When I got to the point of almost releasing, where the boot should pop back into place, it would half snap back in and get stuck

This led me to be really uncomfortable with the idea of mounting those boots in that binding setup.

Sketch shit that I don't recommend you do incoming

So I didn't feel like getting new boots and did feel like making use of my friends 3D printer and after a few prototypes and some dremeling I arrived at this.

I've used this setup about 8 times now(I just took the last picture to show the wear), and it releases by hand very similar to the P14s at the same DIN(highly scientific hand test I know). I ate shit off a roller today and my left ski released without tearing every ligament in my body so I would say I'm pleased.

To directly answer you're question, I don't think 9523 soles on the WTR AFD are safer than tech bindings unless the rubber is really hard and somewhat slippery.

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Thanks for that. I was entertaining similar ideas of a WTR conversion. Not having a 3D printer, it may take some time to find the motivation, but it's good to see others documenting both their fabrication skills and their mania ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Thanks for that. I was entertaining similar ideas of a WTR conversion. Not having a 3D printer, it may take some time to find the motivation, but it's good to see others documenting both their fabrication skills and their mania ;-)

... Thom

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Glad someone appreciates it :D

The 3d printer was really the key component here, can't imagine how I would have pulled this off otherwise. It allowed for rapid prototyping on the depth of the insert and some other subtle things like a tapered edge on the side facing the ski binding, not to mention the nipples for extra hold.

Can't emphasize enough how much of a PITA it was cutting the hole in the rubber though, even with a dremmel.

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Originally Posted by tdpdx

Glad someone appreciates it :D

The 3d printer was really the key component here, can't imagine how I would have pulled this off otherwise. It allowed for rapid prototyping on the depth of the insert and some other subtle things like a tapered edge on the side facing the ski binding, not to mention the nipples for extra hold.

Can't emphasize enough how much of a PITA it was cutting the hole in the rubber though, even with a dremmel.

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What did you use to secure the insert to the sole? Im interested to try this with an old pair of Mtn Lab boots (more for just a project than anything else). my initial thoughts were screwing the insert into the base of the boot, but it looks like you have gotten away with glue? Im worried about the glue holding up over time.

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Originally Posted by nwags41

What did you use to secure the insert to the sole? Im interested to try this with an old pair of Mtn Lab boots (more for just a project than anything else). my initial thoughts were screwing the insert into the base of the boot, but it looks like you have gotten away with glue? Im worried about the glue holding up over time.

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So if you look at the second picture, there are 5 nipples on the insert and 5 holes in the toe piece. The tolerance on those was very small and therefore required clamping to get together. There was no way they were coming apart after without breaking something, to be sure though, I also added some orange hardman high peel epoxy between the two.

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Originally Posted by tdpdx

So if you look at the second picture, there are 5 nipples on the insert and 5 holes in the toe piece. The tolerance on those was very small and therefore required clamping to get together. There was no way they were coming apart after without breaking something, to be sure though, I also added some orange hardman high peel epoxy between the two.

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Got it. That did not cross my mind that those nipples could provide enough reinforcement to keep the plate on.

If I can convince my buddy to let me play with his 3D printer, y’all may be seeing another rendition of tdpdx’s experiment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by tdpdx

So if you look at the second picture, there are 5 nipples on the insert and 5 holes in the toe piece. The tolerance on those was very small and therefore required clamping to get together. There was no way they were coming apart after without breaking something, to be sure though, I also added some orange hardman high peel epoxy between the two.

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What kind of material did you print with? Any post processing to reduce the friction with the afd? I did some work towards replacing my 914/916 toe wing afds but I've left that project on the shelf this winter. My plan was to mill or print a mold then cast them but I haven't selected a material yet.

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Originally Posted by nwags41

Got it. That did not cross my mind that those nipples could provide enough reinforcement to keep the plate on.

If I can convince my buddy to let me play with his 3D printer, y’all may be seeing another rendition of tdpdx’s experiment.

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Yeah, I thought they might just snap off, but I did a really good job cutting a precise slot for the insert and everything was very snug.

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Originally Posted by abraham

What kind of material did you print with? Any post processing to reduce the friction with the afd? I did some work towards replacing my 914/916 toe wing afds but I've left that project on the shelf this winter. My plan was to mill or print a mold then cast them but I haven't selected a material yet.

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PETG with no post processing, the standard finish was slick enough to get the job done.

Anyone remove the tech heel piece from their boot for CAST? Seems like the tech heel piece might interfere with the pivot heel's functionality, but it also provides structure for the sliver of plastic on the boot heel above it, so I'm pretty up in the air on this one.

Feels like a, just because we can doesn't mean we should situation.

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Originally Posted by tdpdx

Anyone remove the tech heel piece from their boot for CAST? Seems like the tech heel piece might interfere with the pivot heel's functionality, but it also provides structure for the sliver of plastic on the boot heel above it, so I'm pretty up in the air on this one.

Feels like a, just because we can doesn't mean we should situation.

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As far as I can tell all it will do is chip off the paint on your Pivot heel, which will probably happen anyway. I’d rather have that than have to buy a new pair of boots because I effed up that plastic shelf due to lack of support below it.

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Originally Posted by tdpdx

Anyone remove the tech heel piece from their boot for CAST? Seems like the tech heel piece might interfere with the pivot heel's functionality, but it also provides structure for the sliver of plastic on the boot heel above it, so I'm pretty up in the air on this one.

Feels like a, just because we can doesn't mean we should situation.

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Just leave it. You'll get some wear on the bindings but nothing that will matter.

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

Just leave it. You'll get some wear on the bindings but nothing that will matter.

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^^^^This.... I looked at this once and without a whole lot of investigation it looked like the screw that holds in the heal tech fitting also helps hold in the heal. So I didn’t f with it...not worth it IMO

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Originally Posted by phatboy64

^^^^This.... I looked at this once and without a whole lot of investigation it looked like the screw that holds in the heal tech fitting also helps hold in the heal. So I didn’t f with it...not worth it IMO

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At a glance, this was my conclusion as well.

Was just wondering if anyone knew of any negative safety consequences, but doesn't sound like it.

Just a little tip:

Occasionally my brake retainer clip comes undone while walking - annoying, but usually my fault for not clearing snow out of it. It's actually quite easy to pull up the brake arm with a ski pole that has a hook type grip, then step down on the clip. Figured that out today and was quite proud of my self. :D

Managed to bend a lock on one of my alpine toes. 100% user error, heads up to all other agros out there. CAST took care of me and parts are en route. For ease of explanation of what NOT to do, I will just quote Martin:
"This is caused from holding the lock open when you remove the alpine toe off the ski. If you hold the lock open, the metal tab will hook the screw tower and bend it like in the photo you provided."

Besides that minor issue, I really enjoy the system and adding a second alpine conversion to the quiver.

Wait so don’t open the lock to take the toe off?

Open the lock to disengage and initiate the slide (x-axis), release it before you remove the toe from the ski (y-axis). If you keep holding it open the metal tab will catch on the edge of the screw tower.

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Originally Posted by banzai

Open the lock to disengage and initiate the slide (x-axis), release it before you remove the toe from the ski (y-axis). If you keep holding it open the metal tab will catch on the edge of the screw tower.

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Aha, that makes total sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Just got a great deal on a pair of Scott Scrapper 115s in the Jeremie Heitz pro model (only 50 made!), and wouldn't be doing them justice without mounting CASTs. I have them on a narrower pair of skis, so would be looking at the second ski kit. Am I correct in saying that all I need in addition to that is any old pair of Pivot/FKS heels? I am skiing with GW boots but in theory that shouldn't matter as the GW pivot toe will be shared across?

Apologies if it has already been covered.

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Originally Posted by JackSkier

Just got a great deal on a pair of Scott Scrapper 115s in the Jeremie Heitz pro model (only 50 made!), and wouldn't be doing them justice without mounting CASTs. I have them on a narrower pair of skis, so would be looking at the second ski kit. Am I correct in saying that all I need in addition to that is any old pair of Pivot/FKS heels? I am skiing with GW boots but in theory that shouldn't matter as the GW pivot toe will be shared across?

Apologies if it has already been covered.

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Correct

I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge re different tech boot soles.

Looking at getting CAST for some cheap Pivot 15s I picked up.

I currently have three ski boots with three different soles….Dalbello Krytpons (alpine), Dalbello Lupo HD (Gripwalk) and just got some Dalbello Lupo Air (9523).

Probably buying the Gripwalk AFD with the CAST for the Lupo HDs.

Is it worth the +$15 to buy the CAST Alpine AFD too? If I want to ski the Kryptons for a few inbound days in a row.

I confess I really don’t know that much about the different touring soles (eg GW vs 9533 vs WTR).

I think you can buy Dalbello Gripwalk soles for the Lupo Air? Ie swap out the 9523 soles. Which seems to make sense to make them consistent with the Lupo HDs? As I also have Tectons and Shifts on other skis and want to use the Lupo HDs and Lupo Airs interchangeably.

Where’s a good place to source Gripwalk soles for Dalbellos? And why the f are there different touring soles?

Thx,

KC

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Thanks for that. I was entertaining similar ideas of a WTR conversion. Not having a 3D printer, it may take some time to find the motivation, but it's good to see others documenting both their fabrication skills and their mania ;-)

... Thom

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Much more robust option (and easier to fabricate too) is just cutting these gripwalk pads out of a HDPE chopping board. Then if you're lazy, just epoxy them into the sole cutouts. I'd personally drill the whole sole/boot assembly through, put T-nuts in the boot, and use machine screws to hold plates - this way you can replace them when they wear out. You can even start with self-tapping screws - this is what boot manufacturers use to hold sole blocks, as they don't anticipate you swapping those a whole gazillion of times.

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Originally Posted by duboix

Much more robust option (and easier to fabricate too) is just cutting these gripwalk pads out of a HDPE chopping board. Then if you're lazy, just epoxy them into the sole cutouts. I'd personally drill the whole sole/boot assembly through, put T-nuts in the boot, and use machine screws to hold plates - this way you can replace them when they wear out. You can even start with self-tapping screws - this is what boot manufacturers use to hold sole blocks, as they don't anticipate you swapping those a whole gazillion of times.

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Yup! I once started a project to do this. I have a mess of different thicknesses of UHMW in my junk bins. For some reason, I shelved it and went on to something else. I might just resuscitate that project ;-)

... Thom

Site is up and taking preorders as of this morning

Bought some Gripwalk soles for my Lupo Airs just so I’m on the same sole as my Lupo HDs.

And CAST Freetour gold ordered (to go with my $239CDN gold Pivot 15s from Corbetts last spring). Pumped to try the CAST set-up.

Now just need to decide which ski is worthy of this set up? K2 Reckoner 112s, Icelantic Nomad 115s unmounted at present are possibles.