Good story about that wonderful Moore guy!

Warner, Bayh, Biden, Clinton, Gore, Fiengold, Vilsack, Clark, Edwards

are who I envision going for it.

Bingaman is one of those INCREDIBLY smart and interesting guys. He's been in the senate for a long time, so it's sort of affected his speaking patterns (as it does anyone).

Gore or Warner will be the picks, I think a lot of people are souring on the Idea of hillary, and there's also a pretty good chance she won't run. A friend of mine is on her staff and seems to think it's a real poosibility.

Also, I think that Wes Clark has an outside chance of winning the nomination. He entered the game really late last time and basically had to learn how to be a politician in 5 days, pretty tall order.

You know you're a right-wing bush-sucking wackjob if:
Your outrage at moore's distortions of truth exceeds or is even close to equal to your outrage at the bush adminstration's distortion of truth.
Moore is just a film maker.
Shrub sends young americans to die in Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Cyber Cop

Man, Kerry was the worst canidate since mondale. I held my nose an voted for the ass, but I won't do it again if the dems are too stupid to run someone electable. If they run Hillary my vote goes straight to 3rd party. You can't put the same type of political hack up as the repubs and expect people to keep taking it in the ass. Kerry and Clinton don't represent my Left. Just asshole repubs in liberal cloth.

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Hey I'm with you, none of those pricks would ever be MY choice as a leader of any country, Canada or the US or whatever. But here's what I was thinking before the election - you could put a standard poodle up against Bush, and realistically, in a fair election it'd win, because really, a president who just locked himself in the basement for 4 years and didn't do shit would fuck up your country less than this yahoo who's done nothing but spend money and get soldiers killed.

And since the election, I've seen nothing but evidence that backs this up. The guy is just a collosal fuck-up. You seriously could have elected a blob of silly putty and put yourselves in a better position at the end of 4 years. Kerry? Sure he's a douche, but look at what the shit sandwich got you.

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Originally Posted by seatosky

Hey I'm with you, none of those pricks would ever be MY choice as a leader of any country, Canada or the US or whatever. But here's what I was thinking before the election - you could put a standard poodle up against Bush, and realistically, in a fair election it'd win, because really, a president who just locked himself in the basement for 4 years and didn't do shit would fuck up your country less than this yahoo who's done nothing but spend money and get soldiers killed.

And since the election, I've seen nothing but evidence that backs this up. The guy is just a collosal fuck-up. You seriously could have elected a blob of silly putty and put yourselves in a better position at the end of 4 years. Kerry? Sure he's a douche, but look at what the shit sandwich got you.

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It was nice to watch that back peddle about the cowboy talk in the press conference with Blair. Dudes a real embarassment when set next to a real thinker like Blair. And no, I'd never take that ass over Kerry, but my Kerry vote didn't do much good anyway. Still kinda torn over Nader. I voted green in 00 and really kick myself sometimes for that. But then again I wonder what Gore would have done in the climate of fear and hysteria after 9/11??? Something tells me he would have been pushed to war too? Just less enthusiastically.

Really this country is primed for a 3rd party. I wonder if thats possible in todays political climate?

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Warner, Bayh, Biden, Clinton, Gore, Fiengold, Vilsack, Clark, Edwards

are who I envision going for it.

Bingaman is one of those INCREDIBLY smart and interesting guys. He's been in the senate for a long time, so it's sort of affected his speaking patterns (as it does anyone).

Gore or Warner will be the picks, I think a lot of people are souring on the Idea of hillary, and there's also a pretty good chance she won't run. A friend of mine is on her staff and seems to think it's a real poosibility.

Also, I think that Wes Clark has an outside chance of winning the nomination. He entered the game really late last time and basically had to learn how to be a politician in 5 days, pretty tall order.

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Boy out of your list at the top I would say Clark would be the better President. In the Military he was known as a no BS guy that could handle politics and hardball to get things done. He did when he was NATO Commander anyway. Handled the Baltics very well. One hell of a job to undertake and handle. And if they let him be himself, while not making the mistakes Kerry's handlers did he could stand a good chance. But they must let Wes be Wes or all is for not.

Hillary is still seen as too much of a bitch by the male public. To many men still look at her with: "why couldn't you keep your husband satisfide so he had to chase after staffers". Sad I know but blue collar male voters do look at that. Many feel she cut Bills balls off and they don't want her to do it to them. She would never be elected President.

I understand your point about Senators and them seeming way too Washington Political in their vernacular to get elected. Maybe that is why Govenors Clinton and Bush got elected as out siders. But I still don't buy that. It boils down to who you are comfortable having a beer with. Bill and GW won hands down in that dept when it came to who they ran against. Clinton did it against GW1/Dole, while GW2 did it against Gore and Kerry. Beer theory wins elections. Not retoric

Keep the conversation going guys. We can all learn alot.

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Originally Posted by TJ.Brk

Hillary is still seen as too much of a bitch by the male public. To many men still look at her with: "why couldn't you keep your husband satisfide so he had to chase after staffers". Sad I know but blue collar male voters do look at that. Many feel she cut Bills balls off and they don't want her to do it to them. She would never be elected President.

I understand your point about Senators and them seeming way too Washington Political in their vernacular to get elected. Maybe that is why Govenors Clinton and Bush got elected as out siders. But I still don't buy that. It boils down to who you are comfortable having a beer with. Bill and GW won hands down in that dept when it came to who they ran against. Clinton did it against GW1/Dole, while GW2 did it against Gore and Kerry. Beer theory wins elections. Not retoric

Keep the conversation going guys. We can all learn alot.

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For me the Hillary factor is way to close to the "political Machine". Complete partisan hack who just talks the talk. I have no problem with the "bitch factor" but I agree that's a double wammy for her. She can't win in her party or outside. Give up, done.

I'm still pissed at Clinton, not because of the BJ but because the dumbass had to know what that BJ would cost. Where is our health care Bill? 8 fucking years and a booming economy and nothing but a blowjob scandal. Bullshit. Not to mention that the bombing of Sudan violated International Law, but that only matters for repubs???

Whoever we elect needs to be capable of getting out of Iraq successfuly. Clark, Ok, McCain Ok. I just wish Obama would run. Or Powell. Sad that real canidates don't have a chance.

Bottom Line- Get rid of the money in politics. At least McCain attempted a step in that direction.

I could vote for Gore if the Republicans, out of this whole immigration brouhaha, nominate a protectionist dingbat ala Pat Buchanan. There are a lot of Democrats I could vote for over someone like that. Other than that, I could never vote for Hillary. Never in a million years.

As for the immigration issue, the republicans put themselves in a world of shit here. They managed to piss off their base, the entire hispanic population, and the business community in one swift stroke. Given that the future of a party's political solvency has widely been seen as a fight to gain hispanic votes, the dems have some life here (without really doing to much). Bush and Rove were actually doing a tremendous job wooing the hispanic population into the republican party, all that work is for naught however, as most now see the Republican party as racist.

Yup, they screwed the pooch on this one. Funny how Bush announced a "Contitutional" ban on gay marriage yesterday. Please, tell me this timing is just coincidental. Right.

Here we go chasing the hillbillies out the bushes.

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Originally Posted by Cyber Cop

Yup, they screwed the pooch on this one. Funny how Bush announced a "Contitutional" ban on gay marriage yesterday. Please, tell me this timing is just coincidental. Right.

Here we go chasing the hillbillies out the bushes.

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He desperately needs to shore up his base, who are leaving him like rats on a sinking ship. While it might help with the wack-job mega church folk, it's only going to push away the independents who are beginning to see through the administrations blatantly political initiatives.

Oddly enough his wife urged "americans" a few weeks ago NOT to make Gay Marriage an issue in this year's election.

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Originally Posted by Cyber Cop

For me the Hillary factor is way to close to the "political Machine". Complete partisan hack who just talks the talk. I have no problem with the "bitch factor" but I agree that's a double wammy for her. She can't win in her party or outside. Give up, done.

I'm still pissed at Clinton, not because of the BJ but because the dumbass had to know what that BJ would cost. Where is our health care Bill? 8 fucking years and a booming economy and nothing but a blowjob scandal. Bullshit. Not to mention that the bombing of Sudan violated International Law, but that only matters for repubs???

Whoever we elect needs to be capable of getting out of Iraq successfuly. Clark, Ok, McCain Ok. I just wish Obama would run. Or Powell. Sad that real canidates don't have a chance.

Bottom Line- Get rid of the money in politics. At least McCain attempted a step in that direction.

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God, we, as liberals, are so god damned tough on our politicians, aren't we? One of the differences I've noticed during my stint in politics is that the left is more than willing to throw it's leaders under the bus when they do something they don't agree with. But the right will generally stick by their man til the end of time, people like Goldwater become Icons of a movement while Kerry get's blasted as a weenie by everyone.

Once again: A liberal is a man so broadminded that he cannot be trusted to stand behind their own argument. Maybe if we were a bit more willing to accept the inherent flaws of politicians as humans, we would do better?

Not for this, not against this. An interesting idea that is worth a look.

http://www.unity08.com/

Well, I guess this explains everything...

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

God, we, as liberals, are so god damned tough on our politicians, aren't we? One of the differences I've noticed during my stint in politics is that the left is more than willing to throw it's leaders under the bus when they do something they don't agree with. But the right will generally stick by their man til the end of time, people like Goldwater become Icons of a movement while Kerry get's blasted as a weenie by everyone.

Once again: A liberal is a man so broadminded that he cannot be trusted to stand behind their own argument. Maybe if we were a bit more willing to accept the inherent flaws of politicians as humans, we would do better?

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Thats fucking interesting man, thats fucking interesting. I honestly never thought of it like that but I think you may be dead on. People always say the Dems need to look like a united front to win. Too bad you are probably too smart to run for office:wink: . And I have to agree with TJ's earlier post. I'm almost 100% positive I would not have voted for Clinton(I was too young in both elections) but I definitely would have loved to get drunk and go skirt chasing with him. He had the worst taste in chicks but man could he pull em in.

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Originally Posted by Bunion

Not for this, not against this. An interesting idea that is worth a look.

http://www.unity08.com/

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Boy I wish it was that easy. But eventually I believe that might be possible just not in the current climate, but we are getting there.

One draw back about that idea is that it might bring to much power in the long run to the Vice Presidential office causing a guagmire that might slow certain processes down a bit.

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Originally Posted by TJ.Brk

Frankly my dream Presidential election would be McCain or Powell for the Republican party. And the junior Senator from Illinois as the Democratic nominee. All are free open minded thinkers, statesman, and leaders that our country needs.

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I know you're Republican leaning but how can you think that McCain or Powell are free thinkers. If McCain's speach at Jerry Falwell's university didn't tip you off about his willingness to sell out for a chance at the Republican ticket then just look at the 2004 campaign. He blasts Bush on his foreign policy and says that Kerry would make a good president and who does he end up campaigning for? Bush, because he was already focusing on the 2008 election.

Hell, during the 2000 campaign a speaker at one Bush's rally's practically called McCain a war criminal and what does McCain do? He supports Bush.

As far as Powell goes, I was a big fan of his for a long time. He spoke his mind and could back up his point of view. But when he went back on his comments about WMD's and the Iraq war because it conflicted with the president's policy that's where I lost all respect for him. He waited until he left the white house staff before he actually spoke his mind again. As the Secretary of State he should speak the truth regardless if it fit's with the White House's adgenda.

In my opinion it's too early to form an opinion of Obama as far as running for president. Maybe in 6 years if a Democrat doesn't win the '08 election.

I would love to see Feingold on the Democratic ticket. That guy doesn't tow the party line just to get elected. He destroy's his opponents in debates and doesn't hesitate to vote against the popular choice if he doesn't agree with that choice.

Hilary is frigid.

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Originally Posted by MassLiberal

God, we, as liberals, are so god damned tough on our politicians, aren't we? One of the differences I've noticed during my stint in politics is that the left is more than willing to throw it's leaders under the bus when they do something they don't agree with. But the right will generally stick by their man til the end of time, people like Goldwater become Icons of a movement while Kerry get's blasted as a weenie by everyone.

Once again: A liberal is a man so broadminded that he cannot be trusted to stand behind their own argument. Maybe if we were a bit more willing to accept the inherent flaws of politicians as humans, we would do better?

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So true. I think this action by the left aspect of the Democratic party really hurts them. They show no loyalty and are willing to toss one of their own under the bus for their own positive TV sound bite on CNN.

To be honest I'm kinda waiting for the Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot in the 06 midterm elections. Their policies are all over the place, and they need to get rid of Nancy as their spokes person. And for Gods sakes they need to Ban Jesse Jackson from any rally or talking points. The man is a joke. Hell even Al Sharpton looks more respectable than him now.

If I was John Kerry right now and I still had some Presidential asperations I would follow up on the mood of his concession speech and go from there. Hire my own people and everytime Dean tried to get one of his people in there I would run like hell.

Michael Moore is a piece of shit.

If you've seen any of his movies then you probably know where Flint, MI is.
Nobody in Flint likes this guy.

He exploits everybody's hardships and makes millions off of it.

How much of that do you think he gives back to the communities/people he exploits?

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Originally Posted by TJ.Brk

So true. I think this action by the left aspect of the Democratic party really hurts them. They show no loyalty and are willing to toss one of their own under the bus for their own positive TV sound bite on CNN.

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Interesting point, but not entirely true. Party unity is a byproduct of success, not ideological affiliation. When things are going well for a party, individual, and at times competing, interests (to use the right for an example: pro life groups, business lobbies, NRA etc) are willing to put their differences aside in order to achieve a greater goal. But eventually, those interests begin to compete and the ruling faction falls apart, leaving the pieces to snip at each other. This is exactly what has happened with the Dems. And what is beginning to happen to the republicans as we speak.

What I was talking about is how Liberals as a demographic tend to treat their politicians.