DPS Phantom Glide

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Originally Posted by Spyderjon

Tune edges for the next season and then give them a light rub with a block of wax. The very thin film of wax will repel moisture/prevent rusting but will ski off in a run or two. Zardoz Notwax/Base Boost is also a good rust preventative on edges.

Do not use oil/grease/petroleum jelly etc on the edges. Every season I get a few pairs in for service and the owners have applied Vaseline the edges which penetrates in to the p-tex adjacent to the edge and is nigh on impossible to get out and it seems inhibit future wax absorption etc.

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Originally Posted by fleaches

I have started doing this after almost every time I ski since moving somewhere damp and salty. Way faster than waxing every time but does a good job keeping the rust away.

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Thank you!

Years ago when I learned storage waxing it was always a heavy and unscraped hot wax.

The fact that a light wax rub does the same thing (for the edges) makes me happy. So much easier. Thx.

I know summer waxing helps bases not dry out. But if you recently waxed them, they’re fine. (And UV not wax treatments shouldn’t dry out).

But I’ve been burned before taking out a pair in late fall and having rusty ass edges. Some brands really like to rust.

Also cool idea of warm season edge wax rub. Sometimes the skis want to rust inside the roof box.

YMMV but i never do storage wax and i never get rusty edges,

the ony time a ski has rusted IME is if they are put away wet with the edges touching

so they gotta be taken in doors and put up against the wall to dry after being separated

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Originally Posted by Spyderjon

Do not use oil/grease/petroleum jelly etc on the edges. Every season I get a few pairs in for service and the owners have applied Vaseline the edges which penetrates in to the p-tex adjacent to the edge and is nigh on impossible to get out and it seems inhibit future wax absorption etc.

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What about k-y and other water based lubes. For many of us, that’s more handy




:P

If you're a Phantom fan boy, just ignore this post, ok?
I'm wondering what a "real" mag has to say after a few seasons of Phantom.

I'm probably most interested in spring glop performance.
(You know the face-planting glory that's sunny spring, 50-degree,day, "goodness," after noon. Bestest when it was 20, and snowed yesterday. LOL)

How good do you really feel it is after at least one, preferably 2-3 seasons? Would you do it again?
Do you _really_ not wax, ever? Or is it more like - "Well I wax, but half as often as before. And if it's going to be a good day I wax anyway."

My bro that's phantomed a few of his skis still waxed over the top of phantom and also liberally used Zardoz in springtime. Fucker was definitely fast.
Zardoz for spring is a must!

si.

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Originally Posted by tuco

My bro that's phantomed a few of his skis still waxed over the top of phantom and also liberally used Zardoz in springtime. Fucker was definitely fast.
Zardoz for spring is a must!

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Still, it sounds like waxing is "better" in general. Perhaps substantially so.
And I've had very good luck with crayon-ing on the wax (Moly Wintersteiger or Graphite KUU) for the worst spring days. (Even then, there's a few days, after noon, where it's really just not worth it, unless you're super desperate for the vert. There's just not anything (wax, phantom, zardoz, etc) that's going to make it "good" just varying levels of suck - from bad to unbelievably bad.)

[Editing to add: This last year, I had a locker (shared with a buddy) and didn't often haul skis home to wax. (And I'm WAY to cheap to pay for a wax at the resort.) I had very good success with crayon-ing on most all the time. Occasionally I'd cork them a bit after crayon - but not often. Probably not as good as hot wax, but I was still pretty happy. Phantom would work well in that situation, which is partly why I asked. But given all the details, I'm probably just going to stick with wax. It takes me 2-3 minutes to crayon up, a bit more to hot wax, if they're not stuck in the locker. I can pay for a lot of wax for $85/pair of skis. And it's only a minimal use of my time on days when I'm not working anyway.]

Thanks for at least some beta! :)

@mc2711c
Eh? Por que?

Phantom is on my radar as maybe a good solution for a “travel ski”…

I did it to my new set of skis last year. Very fast when I was on colder snow in wy, ut, co. I never waxed all season like 50-60 days. It really preformed well on days when the snow temp was rapidly warming. I wouldn't notice as much slowdown or sticky as my friends on the really warm days. It seems like it just helps keep a higher baseline. The skis never really fall off to the super slow category. I plan to wax again before this season. I think I would definitely do it again next time. Apply in peak summer or pay for UV curing as I hear if it doesn't go off properly the performance suffers.


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I’ve been using Phantom for several years. I have it on a couple of pair that I use often. They are bigger/fatter so more of a pain to wax and scrape. It works well but I also wax them occasionally. I bought some more on sale this year and plan to do a couple more pairs. (If that gives you any indication if I like it or not)

FWIW, I started experimenting with liquid wax this year. I am a convert. It’s real quick & easy to apply, even in the morning before I leave, so I used it quite a bit last year. You still need to hot wax occasionally but it lengthens the time between sessions.

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Originally Posted by gregorys

Still, it sounds like waxing is "better" in general. Perhaps substantially so.
And I've had very good luck with crayon-ing on the wax (Moly Wintersteiger or Graphite KUU) for the worst spring days. (Even then, there's a few days, after noon, where it's really just not worth it, unless you're super desperate for the vert. There's just not anything (wax, phantom, zardoz, etc) that's going to make it "good" just varying levels of suck - from bad to unbelievably bad.)

[Editing to add: This last year, I had a locker (shared with a buddy) and didn't often haul skis home to wax. (And I'm WAY to cheap to pay for a wax at the resort.) I had very good success with crayon-ing on most all the time. Occasionally I'd cork them a bit after crayon - but not often. Probably not as good as hot wax, but I was still pretty happy. Phantom would work well in that situation, which is partly why I asked. But given all the details, I'm probably just going to stick with wax. It takes me 2-3 minutes to crayon up, a bit more to hot wax, if they're not stuck in the locker. I can pay for a lot of wax for $85/pair of skis. And it's only a minimal use of my time on days when I'm not working anyway.]

Thanks for at least some beta! :)

@mc2711c
Eh? Por que?

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We'll, when I watch the dude pull away from me in the gliding circumstances, yeah, I'd say it works. But, the dude does own a ski shoppe and is a tuner too, so his skis are always super clean! He waxes his phantomed skis
and then basically pours Zardoz on and spreads it around (not just wipe) and let's it sit and absorb in. Seems to work pretty good from what I've witnessed.

I’ve been disappointed, but maybe my cure wasn’t great. WA sunlight in april might not have been strong enough. I still wax a lot; i was hoping for a silver bullet for the travel skis


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Originally Posted by riff

I’ve been disappointed, but maybe my cure wasn’t great. WA sunlight in april might not have been strong enough. I still wax a lot; i was hoping for a silver bullet for the travel skis

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Did you apply it this April for the first time or do you have experience with it in winter? I would imagine it is much less effective in warm conditions, and Washington spring is about as brutal as it gets for destroying wax

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Originally Posted by gregorys

If you're a Phantom fan boy, just ignore this post, ok?
I'm wondering what a "real" mag has to say after a few seasons of Phantom.

I'm probably most interested in spring glop performance.
(You know the face-planting glory that's sunny spring, 50-degree,day, "goodness," after noon. Bestest when it was 20, and snowed yesterday. LOL)

How good do you really feel it is after at least one, preferably 2-3 seasons? Would you do it again?
Do you _really_ not wax, ever? Or is it more like - "Well I wax, but half as often as before. And if it's going to be a good day I wax anyway."

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I have Phantom applied to both pairs of my touring skis. The “factory” application (2 seasons) seems to work better than the home (3 seasons), so my comments are for the newer (they keep tweaking the formulation) and factory applied Phantom.
It’s definitely not as slick as a fresh and temperature specific wax and base prep. Not even close. I’ve been waxing skis forever, and getting up early and prepping my skis is part of my routine for a great day on the lifts. They claim, that Phantom plus wax is better than just wax, but I have no way of quantifying this. For ski touring, I’m less concerned about high performance glide, I just want them to work, and almost all of the time that’s the case with Phantom. I appreciate that I can head off for a week in the mountains, or encounter a range of snow conditions at different elevations and aspects, and that my bases will work well enough. I also have endless issues with skin glue durability, and I imagine that minimizing the skin glue:ski wax interaction might be a good thing. I’ll still wax on the Phantom occasionally, for exceptionally cold conditions, or just because I have time and want to give my skis some love, but I’m sure a less discerning skier could get away with never waxing. For touring skis, especially if you have the opportunity to get it applied professionally, or for someone that doesn’t or can’t wax their skis on a regular basis and isn’t concerned with maximum performance, or for anyone paying for waxes and who can probably save on waxing less regularly, I think Phantom makes a lot of sense. If you’re already waxing regularly, and the price is significant, it’s not going to make enough of a difference to be worth it.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I have Phantom applied to both pairs of my touring skis. The “factory” application (2 seasons) seems to work better than the home (3 seasons), so my comments are for the newer (they keep tweaking the formulation) and factory applied Phantom.
It’s definitely not as slick as a fresh and temperature specific wax and base prep. Not even close. I’ve been waxing skis forever, and getting up early and prepping my skis is part of my routine for a great day on the lifts. They claim, that Phantom plus wax is better than just wax, but I have no way of quantifying this. For ski touring, I’m less concerned about high performance glide, I just want them to work, and almost all of the time that’s the case with Phantom. I appreciate that I can head off for a week in the mountains, or encounter a range of snow conditions at different elevations and aspects, and that my bases will work well enough. I also have endless issues with skin glue durability, and I imagine that minimizing the skin glue:ski wax interaction might be a good thing. I’ll still wax on the Phantom occasionally, for exceptionally cold conditions, or just because I have time and want to give my skis some love, but I’m sure a less discerning skier could get away with never waxing. For touring skis, especially if you have the opportunity to get it applied professionally, or for someone that doesn’t or can’t wax their skis on a regular basis and isn’t concerned with maximum performance, or for anyone paying for waxes and who can probably save on waxing less regularly, I think Phantom makes a lot of sense. If you’re already waxing regularly, and the price is significant, it’s not going to make enough of a difference to be worth it.

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Exactly what kootenayskier says.

I have Phantom on 4 pairs of skis, and even though I don't really "pay" for it other than trying to fit into the shop schedule so I'm not in their way while I apply it, I'm pretty much just doing it on my travel skis now. That means skis I'll take for more than 3 days when I can't get to my waxing bench. If you wax a bunch and know what you're doing, that's always going to be faster, but after 3-4 days, especially on hard snow, the worst performance you'll get will be substantially better than a non-Phantomed ski, especially in high water content snow.

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Originally Posted by gregL

Exactly what kootenayskier says.

I have Phantom on 4 pairs of skis, and even though I don't really "pay" for it other than trying to fit into the shop schedule so I'm not in their way while I apply it, I'm pretty much just doing it on my travel skis now. That means skis I'll take for more than 3 days when I can't get to my waxing bench. If you wax a bunch and know what you're doing, that's always going to be faster, but after 3-4 days, especially on hard snow, the worst performance you'll get will be substantially better than a non-Phantomed ski, especially in high water content snow.

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PS If you live anywhere other than the desert, I'd think twice about trying to DIY - something as minor as clouds going overhead can cause the Phantom solution(s) not to "take." The DPS curing stations are ideal, and the duration has come way down since the product was introduced, plus the current formula requires only one chemical application, not two.

Dang. This might be a cause of my lackluster results.


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Originally Posted by gregorys

If you're a Phantom fan boy, just ignore this post, ok?
I'm wondering what a "real" mag has to say after a few seasons of Phantom.

I'm probably most interested in spring glop performance.
(You know the face-planting glory that's sunny spring, 50-degree,day, "goodness," after noon. Bestest when it was 20, and snowed yesterday. LOL)

How good do you really feel it is after at least one, preferably 2-3 seasons? Would you do it again?
Do you _really_ not wax, ever? Or is it more like - "Well I wax, but half as often as before. And if it's going to be a good day I wax anyway."

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I was a tester for Phantom before they started retail sales. Since then, I've used it as a base treatment on all new race skis, on every pair of resort and backcountry skis, and I've used it in every possible ski condition. It's fantastic in spring conditions, times where water content is super high, etc. I was at Bridger the last day of the season and it was extremely warm (water under the snow) and I got in and had a beer ordered before the rest of my crew. So for the conditions you asked about it's fantastic. The only time I have waxed over it was for race days with extremely cold and dry conditions. My daughter was a college racer and used a powder overlay on really cold days.

My coaching skis were the first pair I had Phantom on and they have 300+ days on them, they're shot, but they still glide like day one. I have done zero waxing of those over the years. I frankly haven't waxed my other resort or BC skis. I have a couple new pair in the box right now getting their Phantom so yeah I would absolutely do it again. Another plus is it makes removing skins a lot easier FYI.

It’s just such a financial hit to do the whole family’s skis. I’d need to do 20 plus pair


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With the 2023 version of Phantom....still worth having Phantom done at a shop with a UV box?

I have found the reduced time in the sun, once versus twice, a lot easier to manage.

on another note, the new phantom base care package? is it something more than a wet-wipe, and a rough then a fine fibertex pad? I'm a bit confused by that product.

Bump.

What’s the take on Phantom these days? I heard the Ski Essentials guys say they do it to a ton of their ski sales.

Seems like it stuck out its first few years of doubt?


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I ordered a pair of carbon Cassier 82's from DPS with the Phantom application that I received beginning of 2019/2020 season. I probably have at least 50 days on them in mostly hard pack and groomer conditions all the way from -10F in Big Sky to 60's at Mammoth and they have always worked well. I have never waxed them and have tuned them myself and had a full tune with a base grind done at Le Ski Mastery in Taos a couple years ago that I specifically told Alain not to wax. I think they would probably go faster if I used the right wax but they certainly have never held me back much. Crazy enough I actually enjoy tuning and waxing my ski's so not sure if I will use it again. Just got some new HL FL105's that I plan to just use wax on.