OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

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Originally Posted by smmokan

It does have access to the express lane.

I think the price needs to come down a bit, but $30-40 r/t seems in line.

Isn't the WP train $90 r/t? And it's sold out for the year.

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the winter park train is a joke, it is about 90 bucks a ticket, plus parking downtown denver whats that 20-30 dollars, it's a gimmick something you take the kids on once, it'll wear off in a year or two and the train will stop operating again

coloradans are not public transportation people, they are selfish big ass suv/truck driving people who love their cars to death, they complain about the traffic but fail to realize they are part of the problem, they think everyone else is the problem not them

only the poor use public transportation

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Originally Posted by fastfred

the winter park train is a joke, it is about 90 bucks a ticket, plus parking downtown denver whats that 20-30 dollars, it's a gimmick something you take the kids on once, it'll wear off in a year or two and the train will stop operating again

AMERICANS are not public transportation people, they are selfish big ass suv/truck driving people who love their cars to death, they complain about the traffic but fail to realize they are part of the problem, they think everyone else is the problem not them

only the poor use public transportation

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FIFY.....we love our cars.

Just an express train from DIA to Vail or Breck with one additional stop at Union Station could work. What if people could check baggage all the way to Vail from NYC or ATL. I think that would provide the ridership they'd need to support lower fairs. Also removing a lot of shitty drivers in rental cars with bald tires from I70. Win/Win. Once someone gets to Breck or Vail, they really don't need a car, but they could have rental cars available.\

But yeah, train train train train..... ugh. Never happen without the Olympics.

Maybe Elon could latch onto my Den to GJ tunnel idea:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-mus...07280?mod=e2fb

It is $90 miles from the Federal Center Park and Ride to Vail or 180 miles round trip. A standard SUV probably averages about 20 mpgs doing that same trip so you need 9 gallons of gas. That gas costs about $2.30 per gallon which ends up being $20.70 in gas for the round trip. Then you have to figure parking costs and/or the hassle of shuttling from a free parking place to get dropped off rather than being dropped right at the resort, you also have to factor in wear and tear on your car and then the convenience factor of leaving the driving to someone else. Overall, I don't think $45 is too bad at all if you are rolling solo. If you have two or more people in a vehicle the pendulum starts to swing more towards just driving. I personally will be unlikely to use the service, but it will appeal to some.

The federal mileage reimbursement rate is around .50 cents per mile or $90 for the same trip. That seems high. If you cut the reimbursement rate to half at .25 per mile the trip would be $45.

Why are there not more formal, concerted efforts to get people to carpool? Just about every day trip I have done the past two years have been solo. I can't ever seem to find other people willing to leave super early, ski hard and be happy with pulling out of the parking lot at 1:30. I have a 17-month-old at home so I am not keen to leave later, eat a chill lunch on the mountain or get something to eat after skiing and just get back when we get back whether that is 3:00 or 9:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by wolfelot

Why are there not more formal, concerted efforts to get people to carpool? Just about every day trip I have done the past two years have been solo. I can't ever seem to find other people willing to leave super early, ski hard and be happy with pulling out of the parking lot at 1:30. I have a 17-month-old at home so I am not keen to leave later, eat a chill lunch on the mountain or get something to eat after skiing and just get back when we get back whether that is 3:00 or 9:00 PM.

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Agreed we could use larger carpool efforts. But Dino lots are packed most weekends Dec-Feb so it shows that a lot of us are in fact carpooling.

Your ideal schedule sounds like what my crew does most weekends. You just need better skier friends ;). Between 6-7am at Dinos (depending on time of season/snow), load in a car, ski hard (usually one 15 minute beer break), leave at 1/1:30 to get back home to the pups and kids. I end up driving more than my fair share because we often have more than 5 people going.

If you ever ski Loveland drop me a line and we can make your carpool dreams come true. (As long as you don't mind a slow van, grandpa driver and the idiot snowboarder who smokes blunts in the back on the way up.)

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Originally Posted by wolfelot

It is $90 miles from the Federal Center Park and Ride to Vail or 180 miles round trip. A standard SUV probably averages about 20 mpgs doing that same trip so you need 9 gallons of gas. That gas costs about $2.30 per gallon which ends up being $20.70 in gas for the round trip. Then you have to figure parking costs and/or the hassle of shuttling from a free parking place to get dropped off rather than being dropped right at the resort, you also have to factor in wear and tear on your car and then the convenience factor of leaving the driving to someone else. Overall, I don't think $45 is too bad at all if you are rolling solo. If you have two or more people in a vehicle the pendulum starts to swing more towards just driving. I personally will be unlikely to use the service, but it will appeal to some.

The federal mileage reimbursement rate is around .50 cents per mile or $90 for the same trip. That seems high. If you cut the reimbursement rate to half at .25 per mile the trip would be $45.

Why are there not more formal, concerted efforts to get people to carpool? Just about every day trip I have done the past two years have been solo. I can't ever seem to find other people willing to leave super early, ski hard and be happy with pulling out of the parking lot at 1:30. I have a 17-month-old at home so I am not keen to leave later, eat a chill lunch on the mountain or get something to eat after skiing and just get back when we get back whether that is 3:00 or 9:00 PM.

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Carpooling isn't the problem. CDOT didn't add a HOV option to I70 shoulder lane because there are plenty of people with 2+ in the car and the lane would fill up. Quality mass transit options should still dent the 1s and 2s heading up, but it will never be more efficient that filling up your SUV with 5 people and heading up.

There are no shortage of dedicated people on this site getting after it early and often :)
I'll take 2+ laps with you at Copper/WP, but if you're an asshole, I'll have to cut it short at 1.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Of course each person decided what the right price for them is, but objectively speaking, $45 for two trips, each over 100 miles, is a reasonable deal, I think. If people think mass transportation is part of the solution, what do they expect it to cost? That same roundtrip would cost me $30 in gas.

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This is where we differ - I can do round trip to keystone / a basin in my CRV for about 12 bucks

Huge price difference between 12 $ and 45 $

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Originally Posted by WTF is dat

This is where we differ - I can do round trip to keystone / a basin in my CRV for about 12 bucks

Huge price difference between 12 $ and 45 $

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And you aren't the target demographic.

Agreed. Solo second shift skiers need not apply.

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Originally Posted by WTF is dat

This is where we differ - I can do round trip to keystone / a basin in my CRV for about 12 bucks

Huge price difference between 12 $ and 45 $

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Well, I was using Vail mileage, so let's add about 50 miles RT to your estimate. And that makes it $16-18? But that's just gas, and there are other costs to you for driving, that you simply don't attribute to the drive. There's a reason there is a reimbursement rate that governments and companies use, that isn't just "gas receipts". In any case, the point wasn't that it is cheap enough for WTF is dat to ride it. You said it was "way too expensive", but it's simply not possible to have it cost $20 or whatever it would take for you to ride it. $45 for a RT 100 mile each way journey is a reasonable price. As I and others noted, it is way under the federal reimbursement rate, about half maybe.

And herein lies the problem: many people are like you. Unless they price it at what people pay for gas, people aren't going to ride because they like their cars too much and don't attribute enough value to the other benefits that public transport offers. But pricing it at that point is too low.

There already exists a bus service going westbound that is pretty popular and has been expanding. From Vail to Union Station is $17. I don't see why they couldn't add more runs eastbound in the morning to cater to metro skiers.

http://www.ridebustang.com/fares-and-tickets

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

There already exists a bus service going westbound that is pretty popular and has been expanding. From Vail to Union Station is $17. I don't see why they couldn't add more runs eastbound in the morning to cater to metro skiers.

http://www.ridebustang.com/fares-and-tickets

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This is the bustang people providing the weekend service. It looks like their regular route has multiple stops between Denver & Vail. 2 &1/2 hours per trip.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Well, I was using Vail mileage, so let's add about 50 miles RT to your estimate. And that makes it $16-18? But that's just gas, and there are other costs to you for driving, that you simply don't attribute to the drive. There's a reason there is a reimbursement rate that governments and companies use, that isn't just "gas receipts". In any case, the point wasn't that it is cheap enough for WTF is dat to ride it. You said it was "way too expensive", but it's simply not possible to have it cost $20 or whatever it would take for you to ride it. $45 for a RT 100 mile each way journey is a reasonable price. As I and others noted, it is way under the federal reimbursement rate, about half maybe.

And herein lies the problem: many people are like you. Unless they price it at what people pay for gas, people aren't going to ride because they like their cars too much and don't attribute enough value to the other benefits that public transport offers. But pricing it at that point is too low.

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Yup you are right !


The app glitched on my phone and I didn't see another 10 posts of discussion when I posted that

My bad !

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Originally Posted by smmokan

It does have access to the express lane.

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Will it? That glorified shoulder is narrow enough that a coach bus will be drifting out of it constantly.

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Originally Posted by Bean

Will it? That glorified shoulder is narrow enough that a coach bus will be drifting out of it constantly.

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Yep, it's kind of scary to think about: “SnowStang goes directly to each resort plus our drivers have the ability to access the shoulder for bypassing eastbound traffic congestion.”

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Originally Posted by Danno

Well, I was using Vail mileage, so let's add about 50 miles RT to your estimate. And that makes it $16-18? But that's just gas, and there are other costs to you for driving, that you simply don't attribute to the drive. There's a reason there is a reimbursement rate that governments and companies use, that isn't just "gas receipts". In any case, the point wasn't that it is cheap enough for WTF is dat to ride it. You said it was "way too expensive", but it's simply not possible to have it cost $20 or whatever it would take for you to ride it. $45 for a RT 100 mile each way journey is a reasonable price. As I and others noted, it is way under the federal reimbursement rate, about half maybe.

And herein lies the problem: many people are like you. Unless they price it at what people pay for gas, people aren't going to ride because they like their cars too much and don't attribute enough value to the other benefits that public transport offers. But pricing it at that point is too low.

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There needs to be value placed on being able to drive in the comfort of your own vehicle. Without this calculation, riding the bus will never happen.

Either the 'drive your own vehicle' concept becomes too expensive, or the 'ride the bus' concept becomes too affordable (AND CONVENIENT) to pass up.

This is the current state we're in. This is in regards to a ski bus. Considering the target audience for a ski bus having above normal (high) incomes, there really is no compelling incentive to use the product. The price is not a selling point, the time factor is not a selling point, the comfort is not a selling point, the ease of use is perhaps a selling point, but the negatives outweigh the benefits at this stage.

Pretty much sums up my opinion about it as well. First world problems

We all get it. I-70 sucks ass with no resolution in sight. American public transportation sucks ass with no resolution in sight. But, you know? We can't do shit about it..and we all deal with it. Move to Europe if you want the biggest vert possible, with the cheapest accommodations, least amount of crowds, and the least amount of traffic + awesome public transpo which will take you fucking everywhere. But, now you are in Europe doing the Europe thing...it ain't 'Murica. It's like at Mary Jane the other week on a pow day(12'' last 24), and this dickbag Audi wagon driver was bitching up a storm in the parking lot about the parking space which myself and another random dude told him to chill the fuck out before he has a stroke. Motherfucker, you are parked..you are skiing pow on a Thursday morning..like god damn you have some serious First World problems at hand here. It is these kind of people who have never been punched in the face before.
Then again.....this is the bitch thread. I lub this place.

Anyone know what the deal was on I-70 last night? Saw the deep red on google maps so opted for the easy stress free drive up 285. I expected traffic but deep red all the way down to Frisco is usually reserved for powder days that leave the highway covered in snow with half of Denver trying to get home. Sun was out, roads were clear and the Breck was pretty quiet. People just still can't figure it out?

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Originally Posted by GPP33

Anyone know what the deal was on I-70 last night? Saw the deep red on google maps so opted for the easy stress free drive up 285. I expected traffic but deep red all the way down to Frisco is usually reserved for powder days that leave the highway covered in snow with half of Denver trying to get home. Sun was out, roads were clear and the Breck was pretty quiet. People just still can't figure it out?

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No idea but we were watching a stop and go line of cars all the way over LL pass all afternoon from the Basin. Then they started turning everyone around. I think it was the "We don't want anyone stuck in traffic under an avalanche chute" thing. Don't understand that logic on a day like yesterday. Also, were all those cars going over the pass because Sthorne to the tunnel was closed or metering? Seems like every Sunday is a shitshow these days, regardless of weather.

^X games weekend Sunday is ALWAYS a clsuter and the traffic lasts well after dark. This is predictable every year.

Yesterday afternoon around 3pm, the slow crawl down to Empire started a mile before the Jones Pass turnoff. 45 minute delay.

That's the furthest up I've ever hit traffic on 40. No issues once you hit I70. Weird.

Metering at the tunnel yesterday was pretty bad. I left breck at 1:15 and it took 2 hours 45 minutes to get home.

I knew I should have taken 285

Yeah I drove through in the heart of it, no major wrecks or anything, just a ton of volume. Not much to be done about that beyond increasing capacity.

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Originally Posted by Summit

^X games weekend Sunday is ALWAYS a clsuter and the traffic lasts well after dark. This is predictable every year.

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Exactly.