Running, Anyone...?

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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Looks like there's a resounding thought of upping mileage which I figured and I think I can happily do.

As far as getting down to the 3 hour mark, we'll see what happens. Right now I'm just going to up the mileage and keep enjoying it. Seems like I can cut off quite a bit of time just doing that. I also like going to the gym which results in being heavier (I don't think 200lbs is the ideal weight for a marathoner) or willing to sacrifice how social I am now, I'd also like to keep traveling a lot, we'll see how that works with running. But we'll see what happens. Looking forward to posting about some summer trails.

Thanks for entertaining my thought.

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Just a word of caution for the future. While 200 pounds might not be "light" for a "fast" marathon time, I would be cautious of cutting weight while ramping up training volume/intensity, as that is likely a recipe for an injury. The fact that running has so much impact makes balancing body weight and athletic performance more precarious than many other activities (such as cycling, where there is no impact). I had to mention it because being injured sucks. And depending on your frame/build, you might lose weight if you ramp to 40+ mpw anyway.

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Originally Posted by teledad

Running and travel can work well if you make an effort. Easy to stuff a pair of shoes and a few clothes in a suitcase. If you bring old shoes you can toss them when you're done and not have to haul them back. Pick a place to stay based on proximity to trails or running routes. And it's a great way to get a different view of where you are. I've had great runs in NYC, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Boulder, San Diego, New Orleans, Vegas, London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Nice, Sydney, Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore, Warsaw, Zurich. Only place I resorted to running in the hotel gym was Bangalore, too scared of the traffic to run outside there.

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Originally Posted by phatty

I love to run on work trips. Best way to really explore a city. Most major cities are built around water so there's always some river/lake/coast to run along.

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Originally Posted by CascadeCrudSkier

There are some great pictures in this thread, particularly from the PNW. While I prefer to run trails over pavement, I've spent the past several years living in one of the largest cities in the world and spend most of my time running in a very urban environment.

Some random photos from my usual running route over the past year.

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

Yep. When I traveled for work, the easiest way for me to consistently work out was running. Just shoes a few socks, T's, and shorts and you can run. And it doesn't take too much time. get to hotel, change, run....30min-1hr running is a pretty good workout....save the longer runs for when I have more time.

The only issue I ever had was, on some rural trips: DOGS. Down in the rural south, the pities are no joke [IMG]file:///C:/Users/LUKAS~1.KUR/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

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Wow, this thread went nuts over the weekend, love to see. Helps me keep the running stoke high when its 30 degrees out.

Agreed one of my favorite things about running is how accessible it. All you need is shoes and some shorts. And you can do it in the middle of no where or a big city. Great for traveling. Also I like to have a running shoe that is fashion acceptable for walking around. So in reality the only thing extra you’re packing is a couple pairs of shorts/shirts. Plus I run equally if not more for the mental health as the physical health. Such a great way to clear out the garbage

It was a great way to get to know nyc. I was there for 2 months and left knowing Central Park and West Side Highway Park quite well and saw a different side of nyc. Cool pics of Tokyo CascadeCrudSkier, I’ve always wanting to visit that city.

The issue with traveling and running is traveling is my priority and when I’m doing the long runs I’m usually gassed for the rest of the day. Hence why my marathon training was lacking BUT as mentioned just doing the easy runs is excellent.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Sub-3 at 200 lbs is definitely ambitious. It's not even so much about mileage as it about hours. Getting that fast requires spending lots of time at low intensities building your aerobic engine, somewhere in the range of 10-15 hours/week. There's lots of applicable info the Sprockets Training thread, a lot of it from XtrPickles who is a PhD exercise physiologist.

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Yeah that’s quite the time commitment. We’ll see where life goes the next few years and what priorities are. I’ll see what I can find in the sprockets training thread, thanks. Do you have any running goals this year? I saw you were doing some pretty big trail vert runs this summer.

Also thanks to you and the others with the recs regarding “being sad after a big workout”. I listened to those Huberman podcasts on dopamine. I think it ultimately came down to ramping up mileage too fast, not eating enough, and just being okay with a natural dip in dopamine the day after a big run.

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Originally Posted by carpathian

You at the fun part of the curve where you can snag the low hanging fruit and feel ‘improvement’.

I’m 6’1” and 215 lbs and definitely excel percentage wise in flat road races . As soon as you throw in substantial vert the fit 140-60 pounders just float away up the hill!

I’m 42 and started running training in earnest 6 years ago . A year in I did my first HM and was like 1:24 and I was like ok , let’s break 1:20.
I got a 1:19:40 like 3 races later in the same summer .

Then I’m thinking ok 1:15 … yeah right, 6 years later and I have yet to actually break 1:20 again!

Lots of 1:21-23 range . Funny thing is my 5k (17:00) and 10k (37:00) pace are barely faster then HM pace

Maybe my legs are on the downhill slide speed wise but I feel stronger on the long game .

Fact: I’ve never tried a road full marathon . I’ve done 4-5 trail races and get about 4:00 each time (with 2-3k vert)


Dang and I’ve been thinking of running goals for next summer and telling myself to get after breaking 3hr , but it is gonna suck .

The thing is if I make effort for breaking 3, that could lead to breaking 1:15 … the law of diminishing returns is a bitch

If I can do it , your 28 year old self can do it !

Edit: oh yeah there is 62 year old guy here who beats me every time , consistently hitting 1:19. He catches me at mile 10 in the HM every time , which should be big hint to me you’d think as far as race tactics go

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Agree, this low hanging fruit is fun. Going from having a hard time running 2 miles to running a marathon in a year was quite satisfying. Thanks for the motivation, good luck with your running goals!

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Originally Posted by CascadeCrudSkier

< 3 hours is a big commitment, it took me 4 marathons and several attempts at different training programs to figure out what worked for me. I never got the nutrition part dialed, I always prefer morning runs on an empty stomach but you can't do that for such a long race. If I ever do another one for time I'll focus on that part first.

The program that really got my speed down was Hal Higdon's Boston training program. It was free on his website, I'm assuming it still is. The track work was brutal but you really start to see improvements after a few weeks of it. You run an 800 with a 400 cool down, then keep repeating. You build up to 8 sets of that and supposedly your 800 time in minutes should translate to your marathon pace in hours. It was pretty accurate until the usual performance drop off at the 21-22 mile mark; I was able to sustain a 2:40 pace but then dropped rapidly and finished in 2:54. That was my PR and got me into the 2016 Boston race. Boston is a great race for the atmosphere, some people love the course but I thought the logistics made it the worst race I've experienced. Taking a bus out to the start several hours beforehand, waiting around to start the race after you're usually already done makes for a long day and difficult to prepare for. I'm glad I did it but have no desire to run it again.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

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I’ve heard quite a bit about Hal Higdon’s training programs. I’ll take a look when it comes time to start a structured program.

I was in nyc for the nyc marathon and heard similar stories about how much effort and waiting it took to run the race but the atmosphere was incredible. Seems like a one and done thing but pretty cool that you can say you’ve done it. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by fool

Just a word of caution for the future. While 200 pounds might not be "light" for a "fast" marathon time, I would be cautious of cutting weight while ramping up training volume/intensity, as that is likely a recipe for an injury. The fact that running has so much impact makes balancing body weight and athletic performance more precarious than many other activities (such as cycling, where there is no impact). I had to mention it because being injured sucks. And depending on your frame/build, you might lose weight if you ramp to 40+ mpw anyway.

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Thanks, learned this the hard way by not eating enough. I had a post in padded room talking about being sad after a long run and I think not enough calories was a big factor. First time I had to teach myself to eat even if I wasn’t that hungry. Even with the increased calories I still lost 5 lbs which is quite a bit for me as I don’t change weight easily.

One unintended consequence of stopping tracking my runs is that I find myself exploring more side trails than I never did before. Little out and back spurs that I've run past so many times over the years but never bothered to go down. Fun stuff...

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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

Do you have any running goals this year? I saw you were doing some pretty big trail vert runs this summer.

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Nothing in particular at the moment. I ski pretty hard, so my MO for the last few years has been to focus on MTB most of the summer to give my body a break, then late summer/early fall shift over to steep trail "runs" to build up ski fitness since downhill trail running is almost all eccentric loading. I've really lost interest in flat miles, and the steep trails weed out the weak so they tend to be uncrowded. I'm quite lucky in that I have at least half a dozen 20-30% grade trails that climb >3k within a 15-min drive from my house.

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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

Also thanks to you and the others with the recs regarding “being sad after a big workout”. I listened to those Huberman podcasts on dopamine. I think it ultimately came down to ramping up mileage too fast, not eating enough, and just being okay with a natural dip in dopamine the day after a big run.

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Awesome, glad that has worked out for you. When you start getting up into the 3.5k-4k+ kcal/day range eating is a fucking chore.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Nothing in particular at the moment. I ski pretty hard, so my MO for the last few years has been to focus on MTB most of the summer to give my body a break, then late summer/early fall shift over to steep trail "runs" to build up ski fitness since downhill trail running is almost all eccentric loading. I've really lost interest in flat miles, and the steep trails weed out the weak so they tend to be uncrowded. I'm quite lucky in that I have at least half a dozen 20-30% grade trails that climb >3k within a 15-min drive from my house.



Awesome, glad that has worked out for you. When you start getting up into the 3.5k-4k+ kcal/day range eating is a fucking chore.

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Haven't heard of downhill running for ski training but i'll keep that in the archives for next season. I haven't found sports/exercises that transfer well, unless your talking about lung fitness.

Yeah, reminds me of high school when I was trying to gain weight. Got so sick of pbjs. Luckily now I know the power of pasta

Who wants to sign up? https://www.bbc.com/sport/63958092

Reminded me a bit of Attenboroughs clip from BBC Earth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

Hey trail geeks...

I've have a 50K trail run coming up. I've never really found trail shoes I like....
The trail run isn't too technical...but more that a road shoe is beneficial/preferred. Any suggestions?

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Quoting my self to ask: anyone try Salomon Ultra Glide2?Attachment 438639 Meets many req: light (relatively), lots of cushion for 50K, has some tread for grip, but not crazy for super tech courses. Gets good reviews from the usual places I check out.

I've never worn a Salomon shoe before (and sorta thought they were the shoe-version of the Sorority NF poofy prevalent at college campus' across the land!)

https://www.salomon.com/en-us/shop/p...374&size=25858

Salomon shoes are legit. They tend to run pretty narrow so they don't work for me.

Got out with the dog today. Snow miles are hard miles. 3,600 vert felt like 4.5-5k.

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Salomon shoes are too narrow.

I’ve been making progress. I started running during Covid and tweaked my knee. (A week before a JH trip fuck). I rehabbed it and am back into it. I used to swim 10 miles a day but could never run to save my life. It’s a dream of mine though. Im really envious of you guys that run like gazelles.

Anyway, im back home in the bay area and ran 5 miles up and down 1400 feet in about an hr last week.

Running seems to impact my physique quite differently than anything else. I can swim for an hr everyday and not lose weight. I’ve shed 20 pounds in 2022 and have the signs of abs for the first time since I was in college.

May make some goals to run some 5 or 10 k’s.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Got out with the dog today. Snow miles are hard miles. 3,600 vert felt like 4.5-5k.

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Pretty. Jealous of your sunny winters. Agree that snow miles are hard (and slow) miles

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Salomon shoes are legit. They tend to run pretty narrow so they don't work for me.

Got out with the dog today. Snow miles are hard miles. 3,600 vert felt like 4.5-5k.

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Snowshoes would not only work your hip abductors and flexors, but you can stomp a much nicer trail with some Crescent Moons or MSRs.

This running thing has really got into me lately…a few from before the snow…

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^^^ Bet that dog will run forever

I got out for an hour and a half on the snow packed fisherman's trail at the river's edge yesterday. It was one of those out and back runs where I went south the first half feeling like a million bucks and then turned around only to realize I had been running with a 6-8mph tail wind the whole time.

Nice trails and running buddy stapes.


I recently got a pair of altras (zero drop). I went on my first dry pavement run with them and was having a hard time running without the front of my shoe slapping down. Half thoughtfully, half not thoughtfully I started running on my toes (vs light heel striking) and didn't find it that difficult, if anything it might have been easier than my previous form. It was interesting and I ended up doing the rest of my run like this. When I finished my run my time was better than I expected but oh boy my calves were sore the next couple days. Most of my running is ~9-10 min mile so its not like I'm going fast. Too soon to tell anything but so far I think I like the zero drop and this new form. Going to keep experimenting

You really need to ease into forefoot striking slowly. You can really mess yourself up if you don't.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

You really need to ease into forefoot striking slowly. You can really mess yourself up if you don't.

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Yep. Also helps to think in terms of a midfoot strike. Starting out, “forefoot strike” can be interpreted as running on your toes, which isn’t ideal either.

https://naturalrunningcenter.com/natural-running-form/

That too.

And if you want to nerd out about it, you can read the book on Pose running. It’s overkill but useful.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

^^^ Bet that dog will run forever

I got out for an hour and a half on the snow packed fisherman's trail at the river's edge yesterday. It was one of those out and back runs where I went south the first half feeling like a million bucks and then turned around only to realize I had been running with a 6-8mph tail wind the whole time.

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Lately I would kill for a 6-8 mph wind to run in.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

You really need to ease into forefoot striking slowly. You can really mess yourself up if you don't.

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Originally Posted by fool

And if you want to nerd out about it, you can read the book on Pose running. It’s overkill but useful.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

Yep. Also helps to think in terms of a midfoot strike. Starting out, “forefoot strike” can be interpreted as running on your toes, which isn’t ideal either.

https://naturalrunningcenter.com/natural-running-form/

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Gotcha, thanks for the heads up. It didn't feel quite "right" so maybe I was running too much on my toes but it does feel closer to the "ideal" midfoot strike than the heel striking I was doing before. So step in the right direction I guess. I'm only running ~10 miles a week so nows a good time to figure out my form.

We got our annual nice day in Seattle, so I went for a quick one up Tiger Mountain to catch sunset. It went off tonight. 7mi and 3k vert. Missed my PR on the ascent by 45 seconds [emoji22]
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Snagged a descent CR on a fairly popular segment

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Damn Dan. Nice work. In the snow none-the-less

Dog looks pissed that you're stopping

Hah, yeah, "WTF are we standing around for?"

Actually, all the top times are in the winter. It's a very rocky trail but the snow fills in all the tech. When the snow is firm but grippy you can really fly. My best summer times are minutes slower.