Lake Tahoe 2015/16 - Year of Godzilla Baby Jesus

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Originally Posted by powdork

what we want is an easement through kirkwood's land.

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I don't see that ever happening under Vail's ownership. Pretty sure there'd be takings issues if the Forest Service tried to condition Vail's permit on allowing non-paying public access through private land. And the Forest Service would have to want to do it too. I've seen some appetite on their part to push lessees of public land to allow public access to that land (the reply Shralph received from ENF personnel was encouraging, and I've had similar conversations with FS personnel)--but there's a pretty significant difference between that and what you just suggested.

And forget about any kind of prescriptive easement/historical use argument. The elements aren't there.

ETA: I'm not trying to pour cold water on the idea per se. I think it'd be sweet. But I just don't think it's realistic without Kirkwood being owned by like a land trust or b corporation or something.

Now we're getting into surfer / coastal territory. The problem there, as a comparison, is the biggest argument in those cases is usually that there's literally NO other way to access those beaches / breaks. Personally I think it should be the same deal since public land is public land and the public has the right to access it, but the argument won't carry the same weight is all.

^ not to mention there are already THs at Caples Lake Spillway and Thunder Mountain on the other side of the Spur, that already allow direct access to NF land with public parking. While technically not right next to the Wall, etc, someone blindly pointing at a map could say that it provides "access" to that terrain.

Anyways, this entire thing is just really unfortunate. I know the increasing demand from the public creates an opportunity for conflict if the resort is legitimately performing operations, but if there was at least some acknowledgement that, yes, the ski terrain itself is public land, and some kind of policy like, park in the way back lot and just stay 150' away from fall line of any active snow moving, infrastructure, land moving or timber operation if you are recreating in the NF ... then it wouldn't force some kind of stupid Cliven-Bundy-in-reverse showdown or this stupidly asinine review of every inch and corner of inholding road and parcel ownership to find good ingress/egress points. Seriously, just some signage and designated ingress/egress points after winter lift service shuts down would go such a long way.

So what's our next step? Do we have enough info from the FS to confront vail on this?

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Seriously, just some signage and designated ingress/egress points after winter lift service shuts down would go such a long way.

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That's all I meant by easement. If it's liability they are worried about, are they any less liable if we enter via Thunder Mountain (which is snowbound for much of the relevant time)? If so, then strike a deal somehow that let's us through and gives them indemnity. A liability waiver you have to sign and place on your car like when you pay for parking at a trailhead. I would certainly finish with a frosty beverage purchased at their general store. And i would consider buying something other than a mountain collective pass.

A search of publicly available road right-of-way/easement and land title documents would be instructive. All should be available through the County. Who knows, legal public access via the main road in may already be established.

I say we take Coop hostage and give them our list of demands, its a win win.

Heading to Squaw again for this weekend
Hoping 80 stays open tonight (in May!)
...and that Squaw doesn't close for lightning tomorrow

80 already closed from what I hear. This storm has already over-delivered and it's still coming down hard. Squaw should be fun tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Dhelihiker

I say we take Coop hostage and give them our list of demands, its a win win.

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He is somewhere hear in Santa Cruz I think. Didn't see him out at
Cowells this morning.

what are the chances that Squaw has explosives available or the staff to deploy them? Plus a chance of thunder. I guess we'll see in the AM but seems a risky bet coming up from the valley when 80 does open. I've got about 8 inches on my deck and my wife's nice new flowers at Donner Lake--snow has eased up in the last hour since coming down hard all afternoon. Had to get my sorels out of storage and how am I going to shovel off my spa in the morning with all my shovels down down stairs in the garage? Woe is me.

snowed pretty much all day totaling about 5-6" at my place in truckee AFTER it started sticking.. I'm assuming the ski hills got a bunch more.

small aspens and a few other trees in the back drooping and I saved one from tipping over entirely because they sprouted a ton of leaves and they were catching snow.. pretty funny

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Originally Posted by old goat

what are the chances that Squaw has explosives available or the staff to deploy them? Plus a chance of thunder. I guess we'll see in the AM but seems a risky bet coming up from the valley when 80 does open.

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With only Sibo, Shirley and Big Blue spinning (and presumably they'll add Gold Coast) they don't really have that much avalanche terrain to cover. I think it being a Saturday improves the odds... I'm more concerned about lightning.

Well, Lots of red lights but we are moving!
The trees look pretty!
Whoop! May pow!

Trough madness it's freeeezing

Looks like I was full of shit, judging by the lift schedule posted this morning, although things have a tendency to change as opening approaches.

Pretty sure all the snow was along I-80. 3" in Truckee and a dusting at squaw base. All you see on the upper mtn. webcam is moguls and ice showing through. Better day for.....about anything else.

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Originally Posted by BGnight

Pretty sure all the snow was along I-80. 3" in Truckee and a dusting at squaw base. All you see on the upper mtn. webcam is moguls and ice showing through. Better day for.....about anything else.

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You're just saying that to make me feel better. But yeah--looks like I got twice the snow at my house as Squaw got on the upper mountain.

Icy bumps will make a change from sloppy ones I guess. The flats won't be sticky at least.
Hard to work out just what caused the delays on 80 last night. Just wet & crowded.
Any other kooks out & about?

TahoeJ and I skied Shirley for a couple hours. More than just icy bumps. Some spots where it was variable. Some where you wouldn't hit bottom (it was thick). Called it when it got so warm that I didn't want sore knees.

There was 8-10" on DPR between Kingvale and Soda yesterday evening when we drove through. Significantly less at Squaw at that elevation though.

Can't complain for May 21 though.

It was pretty good for late May. Nice and spongy snow before it warmed up too much. I wish Squaw would open earlier on days like this but I guess I should be glad they're open at all.

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friend of mine came up friday, said he saw 14 wrecks on 80, this was before it closed. My wife saw three heading down friday before there were chain controls. Donner Pass Rd at Donner Lake was a freeway Friday with people thinking they could get around the chain checkpoints in truckee, finding out they couldn't and heading back. I think a lot of the carnage was people with 2WD and no chains. Not only that though--one of the wrecks my wife saw was an SUV upside down. I can't make fun of the idiots any more though, not after wrecking a 4Runner--in 4WD--when I hit a sudden snow squall near Colfax doing 50 (no chain controls at the time).

Beautiful day here in Olympic Valley. The day opened up (thank you, my Lady). Day 9 on next years Alpine pass.
To the Funitel!

Granite was nice cream cheese pow, for a short 5 min hike. Sat was better than Sun since it didn't warm up much.

Anyone interested in trying to find some decent snow around CP tomorrow? PM me if so.