Electric Bike Thread

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Originally Posted by grinch

Ive heard that somewhere. I guess you'll have time to see if the ep8 is good then. Moto trails i think you'll want a full powah emtb. I wouldnt mind an sl weight option but that won't replace the 85-90 nm full powah emtb for me. Currently im going slow on tech clombs like similar to what sections of the mpto trails might have. Its nice to have the 85-90 nm tourque to spin lower revs because its easier and funner just finding traction that way than spinning like we normally do on mtb's. Using the rear brake occcasionally to modulate the power in boost, like moto trials riders will do, so the tires don't spin out in snow or wet roots. The new ep8 and the bosch gen4 will allow you to get full power out of their tourque reliant settings. "Trail mode" for the ep8 and " emtb mode" for the bosch. My e8000 doent have full power in trail mode only boost and boost doesn't work off the tourque sensor quite the same. In boost mode the tourque sensor just engages the boost mode at full power. In trail mode the tourque sensor feeds off your input. You can feather the power or push harder and it gives you more or crank on it and it gives you even more. You can modulate the power but i can't get the full power like the new ep8 or bosch gen 4.
As for weight, i think you'd learn to appreciate the weight on moto trails. Check the vital shootout. They tested on moto trails and liked the weight quality on those trails

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Sick. This sounds just like the stuff I think about when I ride my Mtn bike.


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Esarc
It is fun though. All we have right now for trails. Last remaining trails before theyre covered. Im ok with it though. Just that stuff ive been thinking about while riding thos stuff. Part of the fun. Still some all out efforts in there to get up and over some steeper rooty punchy climbs. Go from tangly roots where youre slow speed balancing and picking the front wheel up over diagonal wet roots, so slow cadence high gear is best , to getting lined up for the all out effort in boost up through a punchy steep root section. The downs are fun too but piecing together the tech climb sections is the main riding right now. Still learning the capabilities and how to attack different sections. Super fun. Some of the sections remind me of a few of the moto trails i was riding in the spring. Curious to get back on those next spring to see how i do. Probably 3 hrs today i doubt i went fast then 8 mph on most of it. 2 small downhills i got up to regular speed so maybe 10 minutes

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I school you guys in the ebike threads, in the enduro fantasy league, and soon in the dh fantasy league and your listening but youre slow on the uptake. You really have to work on the uptake part or you'll just keep loosing. #loosedawg

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Originally Posted by rideit

Has anyone ridden a Kona?
Considering one for the Moto trails.

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One of the legends of MTB here in Maine rides one, won't ever ride an acoustic bike again. He's around 60, great rider, one of the first core MTB shop owners in the state. He say switchback climbs are as fun going up as coming down now.

As a guy with a 30 resume of ACL surgeries I am totally e-curious, gotta get my new pedal bike sorted first. Then there's the ocean boat...

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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

One of the legends of MTB here in Maine rides one, won't ever ride an acoustic bike again. He's around 60, great rider, one of the first core MTB shop owners in the state. He say switchback climbs are as fun going up as coming down now.

As a guy with a 30 resume of ACL surgeries I am totally e-curious, gotta get my new pedal bike sorted first. Then there's the ocean boat...

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They do add some flow everywhere. Makes sense for a lot of ec riding on the janky wet roots and rocks and tight slower speeds. I've noticed theyve been accepted without a problem back in my NB ec home town

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Originally Posted by grinch

Ive heard that somewhere. I guess you'll have time to see if the ep8 is good then. Moto trails i think you'll want a full powah emtb. I wouldnt mind an sl weight option but that won't replace the 85-90 nm full powah emtb for me. Currently im going slow on tech clombs like similar to what sections of the mpto trails might have. Its nice to have the 85-90 nm tourque to spin lower revs because its easier and funner just finding traction that way than spinning like we normally do on mtb's. Using the rear brake occcasionally to modulate the power in boost, like moto trials riders will do, so the tires don't spin out in snow or wet roots. The new ep8 and the bosch gen4 will allow you to get full power out of their tourque reliant settings. "Trail mode" for the ep8 and " emtb mode" for the bosch. My e8000 doent have full power in trail mode only boost and boost doesn't work off the tourque sensor quite the same. In boost mode the tourque sensor just engages the boost mode at full power. In trail mode the tourque sensor feeds off your input. You can feather the power or push harder and it gives you more or crank on it and it gives you even more. You can modulate the power but i can't get the full power like the new ep8 or bosch gen 4.
As for weight, i think you'd learn to appreciate the weight on moto trails. Check the vital shootout. They tested on moto trails and liked the weight quality on those trails

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Where did you read or hear about the EP8 tolerance issues?

I’ve got my eyes on Pivot Shuttle and YT Decoy CF Pro after they do the EP8 upgrade. Very different bikes I know ... but both are sub 50 lbs. I’m actually leaning toward the YT based on geo/spec/capabilities but my local Pivot dealer is a really great shop and it would give me a good backstop as issues arise.

Our moto legal singletrack is also not super rough. Part of my theory on weight is that I’m only 135 lbs and I want to be able to have better ability to quickly manipulate the bike in midair or if I screw up balance/weighting/tire placement etc.

I’m not really looking for an all day adventure machine - more something that can erase hours from our (Oakridge) 3000’ gravel climbs up to the various ridgeline descent trails. If I can exactly get two laps off a single charge (6-8.5k total vert) for any of our moto legal ridgeline descents, that would be absolutely perfect. We’ve also got a lot of BLM systems here, none of them are all day affairs so it seems like 500 Wh on a more efficient motor might do the trick ...

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Where did you read or hear about the EP8 tolerance issues?

I’ve got my eyes on Pivot Shuttle and YT Decoy CF Pro after they do the EP8 upgrade. Very different bikes I know ... but both are sub 50 lbs. I’m actually leaning toward the YT based on geo/spec/capabilities but my local Pivot dealer is a really great shop and it would give me a good backstop as issues arise.

Our moto legal singletrack is also not super rough. Part of my theory on weight is that I’m only 135 lbs and I want to be able to have better ability to quickly manipulate the bike in midair or if I screw up balance/weighting/tire placement etc.

I’m not really looking for an all day adventure machine - more something that can erase hours from our (Oakridge) 3000’ gravel climbs up to the various ridgeline descent trails. If I can exactly get two laps off a single charge (6-8.5k total vert) for any of our moto legal ridgeline descents, that would be absolutely perfect. We’ve also got a lot of BLM systems here, none of them are all day affairs so it seems like 500 Wh on a more efficient motor might do the trick ...

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The issue on the ep8 just stalled the release of bikes for a few months. Its been widely known but i think its been addressed as bikes with it are trickling out now.
It could be ok . Currently some reviews like the low noise and features but some are complaining about the rattle noise when youre coasting downhill. I'd probably be ok with that im guessing. The bosch cx also has it but apparently the ep8 is louder.
For me its the durability question. Its new and still not a serviceable motor. I'll wait a year before i totally pan it but currently i only would consider a bosch gen4 cx equipped bike. Better warrantee(2 yrs and if it needs replacement in 2 yrs the new motor will have a 2 yr warrantee) and outside warrantee its rebuildable(bearings, axle and axle sleeves) plus its had far fewer issues. Service and parts seems to be readily available as well. More useable tourque as well although the shimano mau be more intuitive with better modulation of power

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Don't think i'll be guinea pigging this but it'll be interesting to see how it works out irl, the baofang motor in particular. Not sure if 60nm and a 350w battery will suit my needs. Touch screen seems like it could be problematic



"According to Forestal, the EonDrive, which was developed in collaboration with Bafang, weighs just 1.95 kg and churns out 60 Nm of torque. This is possible thanks to a magnesium housing and the many titanium components. For comparison’s sake: The Specialized Turbo SL 1.1 motor weighs 1.9 kg and has a torque of 30 Nm.

the 3.2″ touch display integrated in the top tube show all common riding data such as battery capacity and support level, but also works as a navigation device. On top of that, the display relies on all common interfaces, such as Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, ANT +, GPS and 4G, to communicate with external devices. An integrated acceleration and position sensor records and evaluates exciting riding data such as G-forces in berms and airtime on jumps.

I believe we will see many exciting developments in the future. WOW!"

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Originally Posted by grinch

The issue on the ep8 just stalled the release of bikes for a few months. Its been widely known but i think its been addressed as bikes with it are trickling out now.
It could be ok . Currently some reviews like the low noise and features but some are complaining about the rattle noise when youre coasting downhill. I'd probably be ok with that im guessing. The bosch cx also has it but apparently the ep8 is louder.
For me its the durability question. Its new and still not a serviceable motor. I'll wait a year before i totally pan it but currently i only would consider a bosch gen4 cx equipped bike. Better warrantee(2 yrs and if it needs replacement in 2 yrs the new motor will have a 2 yr warrantee) and outside warrantee its rebuildable(bearings, axle and axle sleeves) plus its had far fewer issues. Service and parts seems to be readily available as well. More useable tourque as well although the shimano mau be more intuitive with better modulation of power

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Shop guys have been trying to find the "rattle" on the Trek Rails and finally heard about the gear tolerance. Hope it's fixed on the new version.

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Originally Posted by pano-dude

Shop guys have been trying to find the "rattle" on the Trek Rails and finally heard about the gear tolerance. Hope it's fixed on the new version.

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Can you elaborate on this rattle?

I got my wife a Rail 5 and haven’t really noticed anything.

Ya know when you put cool new parts on a new bike that's been down waiting for other parts and stuff to make a hitch rack work how excited you get when it's 75* and you finally have time to ride? Yeah, all pumped right? Yeah. Then you get there and realize that since you forgot to put the wheel magnet on those cool carbon wheels so the thing doesn't know you're actually riding so it only puts out low power for a few seconds then cuts out and on and off and... Of course I didn't figure this out until the bottom of the first downhill... Fuck :( I guess the moral of the story is the bike is smarter than I am (and always have a spare wheel magnet with you in case one falls off).

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Originally Posted by pano-dude

Shop guys have been trying to find the "rattle" on the Trek Rails and finally heard about the gear tolerance. Hope it's fixed on the new version.

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Ive never actually heard it irl or even tried a gen4. I hear its not as loud as the ep8. Same thing though. Just a rattle on the downs because there is no tourque on the internal gear. They say it wont hurt anything and wont get worse. On the bosch most people arent bothered it seems. I've heard more people say the ep8 noise os a deal breaker for them. My buddy is super happy with his bosch cx on his cube 160. He keeps telling me that motor is the best. I recommended it to him. Lol

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Where did you read or hear about the EP8 tolerance issues?

I’ve got my eyes on Pivot Shuttle and YT Decoy CF Pro after they do the EP8 upgrade. Very different bikes I know ... but both are sub 50 lbs. I’m actually leaning toward the YT based on geo/spec/capabilities but my local Pivot dealer is a really great shop and it would give me a good backstop as issues arise.

Our moto legal singletrack is also not super rough. Part of my theory on weight is that I’m only 135 lbs and I want to be able to have better ability to quickly manipulate the bike in midair or if I screw up balance/weighting/tire placement etc.

I’m not really looking for an all day adventure machine - more something that can erase hours from our (Oakridge) 3000’ gravel climbs up to the various ridgeline descent trails. If I can exactly get two laps off a single charge (6-8.5k total vert) for any of our moto legal ridgeline descents, that would be absolutely perfect. We’ve also got a lot of BLM systems here, none of them are all day affairs so it seems like 500 Wh on a more efficient motor might do the trick ...

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Have you looked into some of the lighter offerings? You can find bikes sub 40#. It is for sure a preference thing, but the 47# I was using adjusts much slower than my 28# hardtail. After several rides I got used to it, but never found it as nimble as my lighter bike.

As for vert, I found e assist added about 50-60% more vert and/or distance per time period. That was mostly in Tour mode for the up and EMTB for the down. Could have gone further, faster with more motor use, but use more battery.

I was getting about 6K on a charge on the Superfly.

Hell, with the new superfly you could put a seat on the rack and bring the kiddo with you.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Can you elaborate on this rattle?

I got my wife a Rail 5 and haven’t really noticed anything.

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Slight rattle that sounds like an internal routed cable moving around when not pedalling. Not a huge deal but coming off a silent bike it is noticable.

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Apologies if this has been posted already, really cool ebike video. Props for lots of bike carrying too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRiz...ture=emb_title

That’s a great example, of winter riding. I love my fat bike, on the groomed trails, in the valleys or on golf course. But if it’s steep or deep and I’m climbing, I’m taking the ebike.
I’ll HAB, but I’m not carrying mine far.

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Originally Posted by Ottime

Have you looked into some of the lighter offerings? You can find bikes sub 40#. It is for sure a preference thing, but the 47# I was using adjusts much slower than my 28# hardtail. After several rides I got used to it, but never found it as nimble as my lighter bike.

As for vert, I found e assist added about 50-60% more vert and/or distance per time period. That was mostly in Tour mode for the up and EMTB for the down. Could have gone further, faster with more motor use, but use more battery.

I was getting about 6K on a charge on the Superfly.

Hell, with the new superfly you could put a seat on the rack and bring the kiddo with you.

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Not looking for a hardtail ebike though - defeats the purpose, getting to the top quickly to not have the greatest ride down just seems silly. Any eMTB I get is going to have a reservoir shock and a 36mm fork. Find me one under 40 lbs and under $10k? I'm willing to sacrifice on peak torque and range.

Even with the FS ebike I'll be able to have the kiddo up front on a Macridemore or Shotgun top-tube mounted seat.

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Not looking for a hardtail ebike though - defeats the purpose, getting to the top quickly to not have the greatest ride down just seems silly. Any eMTB I get is going to have a reservoir shock and a 36mm fork. Find me one under 40 lbs and under $10k? I'm willing to sacrifice on peak torque and range.

Even with the FS ebike I'll be able to have the kiddo up front on a Macridemore or Shotgun top-tube mounted seat.

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I bet you could buy a cube stereo hybrid 160 and throw some $ at it and be under 42lb and 10k. I wouldnt though because i know a lot of weight disappears when you get really used to "your" bike. Id say demo a decent 46/47lb emtb and try snd appreciate the advantages to the traction, stability and suspension that added 10lbs brings and then try and visualize how much more playful the bike will be when you've adapted to the weight and aren't fighting it. I'd imagine you'll have moments of that "at one" feeling with a flowy ride with some speed. Soon enough any ride and speed you'll just move the bike intuitively in step with the weight rather than be surprised because youre in tune with the weight of your current bike.
There's a reason why i never give a second thought to adding full dh casing tires, inserts , no carbon parts and steel cassettes with low cost derailleurs. Im used to the weight and im going to ride more and wear parts. I like to descibe the best skier in the world only needs a pair of nike runners and some grip tape on his skis because he's balanced and just standing in the center and letting the ski work and not wasting energy. An obvious stretch but it really does apply. Take it on a few lift days and just hammer a bunch of runs then climb a full battery worth of laps after for the full experience. You'll be in the sweet spot in no time

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My call is that weight or lack of is overrated unless you are going to give up on pedal biking and go strictly Ebike. Then maybe some sense in having a lite Ebike that kinda crosses the two. But if you have both a lite Ebike and a pedal bike you will probably find out that the lite Ebike will have lesser tires and you up grade to more burly tires, adding weight and some drag. That drag will reduce mileage and you figure out that you need a second battery. You end up with a bike that has gained the weight that a trad MTB Ebike has and pulling it with a less powerful motor. IMO

For me and my wife too the only time we feel the weight of our Ebikes is on and off the bike rack.

On and off the car rack and when you get clumsy ;) I find myself arguing with the weight when I'm my normal not graceful self especially on things that would otherwise be wheelie drops. I've only ridden analog a few times now since my heart attack and each time I felt like the bike was too light and it took me 10-15 minutes to adjust back to that. I'm honestly not sure which feel I prefer but I know overall I'd rather be on the E-.

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Not looking for a hardtail ebike though - defeats the purpose, getting to the top quickly to not have the greatest ride down just seems silly. Any eMTB I get is going to have a reservoir shock and a 36mm fork. Find me one under 40 lbs and under $10k? I'm willing to sacrifice on peak torque and range.

Even with the FS ebike I'll be able to have the kiddo up front on a Macridemore or Shotgun top-tube mounted seat.

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My haibike, 180 front and rear, is 52 lbs, and it rides downhill really well, you don't feel the weight.
And uphill?
Puts a smile on your face

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Relax, I was being facetious with my buddy about sub 40.
But I also have a surgically repaired left shoulder, not super strong upper body, and only weigh 135 lbs. I’m thinking Pivot Shuttle post EP8 upgrade with XT build and beefy tires will hit the sweet spot. Our trails aren’t too rugged but they have big vert, dropping like 3k in 3 miles in many places.

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Relax, I was being facetious with my buddy about sub 40.
But I also have a surgically repaired left shoulder, not super strong upper body, and only weigh 135 lbs. I’m thinking Pivot Shuttle post EP8 upgrade with XT build and beefy tires will hit the sweet spot. Our trails aren’t too rugged but they have big vert, dropping like 3k in 3 miles in many places.

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I’m for sure a newb to all of it. But I had a lot more fun on my buddies 42# Rail than the 47# Superfly. It was a much more expensive bike though. Weight does improve grip for sure, but I could move his laterally much more easily. Tho, if I was buying, I’d buy the heavier cheaper bike for sure. You’ll have fun on any really. FWIW, his bikes had fairly mello Bontrager tires and they worked fine. Only flat he has gotten was when a shard from a broken bottle tore through two inches of sidewall.

How much damage are you guys doing to the bash guard zone? My biggest complaint about current ebike designs is that smashing my “bottom bracket” means battery/motor.
I’ve destroyed one battery cover bash guard thing. Bought a steezy expensive carbon protector and have now almost destroyed it. Same result on wife’s bike because she’s a bruiser.


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Originally Posted by Ottime

I’m for sure a newb to all of it. But I had a lot more fun on my buddies 42# Rail than the 47# Superfly. It was a much more expensive bike though. Weight does improve grip for sure, but I could move his laterally much more easily. Tho, if I was buying, I’d buy the heavier cheaper bike for sure. You’ll have fun on any really. FWIW, his bikes had fairly mello Bontrager tires and they worked fine. Only flat he has gotten was when a shard from a broken bottle tore through two inches of sidewall.

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You talking about the Powerfly HT or FS?
I assume the HT because the FS is listed at like 60 lbs. Both have not the best suspension components spec’ed.

Seems like $8k is a sweet spot for dealer supported eMTBs (Rail XT for example) and $6600 for D2C brands (YT Decoy CF Pro Race for example).