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Just another idea...Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
What works for me is only lacing up the top four holes thereby leaving the instep area with no laces. This takes a lot of pressure off my insteps.
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Appreciate the suggestion but the new Corsas removed the lace holes over the instep. The laces really only go around the leg now, they don’t extend down onto the foot.
TAFKALVS - I recently purchased, and returned, a pair of Tecnica Mach1 LV 130s. I also have quite a low volume instep and forefoot (height). The LV Mach1 felt very low volume and good over the instep and forefoot. The heal pocket created huge issues for my heal spurs, but that could have probably been fixed by a punch. I'm already invested in bootwork on some Atomic Hawx Ultras, so trying to make them work. But the Mach1 LV was much lower in the forefoot and instep. So maybe try to check out a pair of those?Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKALVS
Also, for the experts -- I'm looking at either a Zipfit Freeride or Gara HV for the atomic hawx to secure my foot adequately. How much performance (if any) do you think you loose without the plastic cuff material going all the way up in the back of the Freeride? I do like to ski with a playful style and always look for airs and gaps, but never skiing switch. Found a reasonable deal on some Freerides, but debating if I should just pay full pop for the Garas. Anyone with experience with both?
Anyone have experience fotting a Sidewinder?
I'm in boot Nirvana, but also going down the rabbit hole.
I've got a cherry pair and also love the grippy leather interior, almost like smooth suede.
Anyway, I also have wicked big ankles and that inner, top to bottom layer of that stiff honeycomb powertransferstuff does not play nicely.
Shell is punched there; "punch" the liners there
too?
I was thinking targeted, light heat gun (now that I think more about, probably masking off the area outside of ankle point with aluminum foil) and yje handle of s screwdriver from inside the liner?
Ive already done (just once, I think) a heat fitting via hot water bottles placed w/I the liner.
I want my Gara's to work!
Ten tubes and the fit is so sweet... zero lift with no discomfort, aaand... eezy to stand around in.
But, damn... I can not solve the acute pressure I'm getting over the instep in a ski posture.
Milled the bootboard to the nth. Corsa lacing from the top 4 loops only and cut out the 4 lower lace loops. I'm maybe 50% of the way there. Time to get serious.
I'm going to cut away the portion of the shell marked in yellow. Maybe a little wider.
Attachment 489742
Yeah or Neah?
eta: I've heat formed the same location without significant improvement.
Probably not the advice you’re looking for, but I saw a video of a guy on YouTube that removed the honeycomb all together. I don’t believe it was sidewinder but his point was that it takes up too much volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
Heat that shell and manually roll up that edge. Make it count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gepeto
Try hammering the blue/green seam in the liner against a wood block to bed it in.
Handy tip for all liner molds.
I often find that the cork in the Achilles channels can be uneven after an initial mold and the customer can notice. Now, i preemptively push cork down the Achilles channel to right above the heel. It will work back up if it really needs to but usually serves people better down low.
I'm on it 🫡Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Super stoked to get a zipfit fitting from goldenbc tomorrow after following this thread loosely!
You won’t regret it. To GoldenBC’s point, the achilles area in my left boot ended up being the crux of the fit for me. The OMfit is really hard to move/get right with just a heat mold. I came to the conclusion that I had to too much OMfit there and wasn’t getting the heel hold that I wanted, like my heel wasn’t all the way back in my boot. I had to manually move the cork down lower and then up higher and around to front.
I'd be interested to hear how this works. I'm starting to get that inside ankle pressure as well and it's definitely the plastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
Can you link to that? I’d like to modify my SW but not willing to go to extremes just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleBogey
Great to meet you today. Enjoy the skiing this week!Quote:
Originally Posted by chewski
https://youtu.be/BUli9WRIh0A?si=_Hq1twHPxSTputOXQuote:
Originally Posted by jackattack
No idea how he did it, but that’s what it looks like.
I have about 80-100 days in a sidewinder. I’ve heated them a few times in a convection oven and added a little more cork but not much. Mine have the leather inner liner which I I like better than the neoprene.
short story - I’ve never done too much work to them and haven’t had a boot fitter work on any zipfits. I have noticed the heel pockets expand and conform to my foot over time including switching between boots. More so on my left foot than on my right. I’ve used these liners in two generations of rx 130 lvs and the past two years in atomic Hawx ultras.
I also have the gara and the gft. The sidewinder was great when I sprained my left ankle very badly - it really helped protect my ankle getting in and out of the boot and while skiing. Can’t say I like the sidewinder more than other zipfits though - but with my sprained ankle it was a big help.
downside to the sidewinder is that in higher volume boots (like the rx lv compared to the Hawx ultra), on very warm days it felt like I could feel the plastic against my ankle a bit while skiing. Not a big problem, but didn’t have that issue with the non-sidewinder models.
Also think the sidewinder adds noticeable stiffness to the boot.
think a hairdryer would work but also think less is more when it comes to zipfits,they all conform to your feet over time.
Damn, what a few aggressive taps with a smoothed face hammer will do~!Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
I cowboyed up and brought some heat and pressure. Significant; reduced the discomfort another 35%.
Attachment 489858
I am going to mill the leading edge where I molded up on the medial side with a die-grinder - nothing significant... 2/3mm, where the tongue drives down on the shell with the heel retention buckle tensioned.
There is no doubt what the liner brings to the user. The viscous medium the cork is suspended in plus the malleability and slow elasticity of the cork itself. No comparison to an intuition or foam injected liner. The fact that when at room temp it's unwavering, but mounted (and especially warmed up) the fit is truly dynamic.
Thanx for the push GBC. This transition has not been easy. Without getting into the weeds, it's Felt with a capital F, old school - like getting a plug boot intentionally x1.5 sizes to small to work just right.
The ride was plush today.
Probably answered already but is a hotronics boot dryer ok with zipfits? The heat feels extremely mild to me, but wanted to check first.
Attachment 490531
I would think so. Take your footbeds out though
I've been using the MaxDry RD (with hoses) equivalent (it's physically identical, but under a different brand name) - which is also very low heat without any issues. So, I think the answer is yes.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleBogey
Thanks, all!
Just posted a minty pair of 28.5 Garas in gearswap if anyone is looking.
Attachment 491139
hmmmmmm so this doesn’t seem like it’s gonna work…. Just got my first pair of zips and was so excited. Their online “liner selector” told me 28 Gara LV would work great in my 28.5 Tecnica Mach 1 LV. Clearly not…. The shell is absolutely busting open. Am I missing something? I bought these liners to take up room, I wouldn’t say I exactly have a race fit in these shells either. Has anyone else gotten zips in this boot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmvolatile
ya. go to a shop, heat the shells and slide in. ive never heated my zips, only heated my shells and they all look like that to begin with. the heat from the shell will be enough to move the cork well too.
i have 27 LV garas in a 27.5 lange, well all three of my zips are 27 and all in 27.5 langes
hmm yeah I just assumed this wasn’t a cork migration thing since I literally can’t even reach the instep buckle to the first step. Figured heating would customize the fit to your foot but not reduce the volume of the liner. I can try some heat and see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoVT Joey;[URL="tel:7052598"
Quote:
Originally Posted by asmvolatile
If you read through the Zipfit thread on the SkiTalk forum you’ll see that that type of scenario is pretty common. I believe there are some tips on there about how to handle it.
the heat isnt going to be enough to melt stuff, its enough to make the plastic more flexible and stretch things for the initial heat. the plastic will constrict back as it cools. DO NOT over-tighten your buckles for the heat process. just enough to buckle them closed. i had intuitions years back and it took two guys pushing closed on the plastic and me buckling them to get them in the shell after heating and they worked out great for 60 days of skiing. zips dont take that much heat to move the cork and mold well to a shell, which is why they get that much better after a few days of skiing. body heat alone will make the cork soft and move. before my GFT, i would occasionally tour in my gara in my touring boot and that would cause the cork to move around. after a couple runs in my alpine boots they would be back to normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmvolatile
also try buckling your upper cuff and work down to the instep buckle
Not sure about your specific situation but my impression is that zip fit is generally very amenable to swapping liners out for you if something doesn’t work.Quote:
Originally Posted by garuda
Breathe
Heat the liners, not the shell. Please.
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This. You need to move cork not plastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by arild
Holy hell that SkiTalk thread is a gold mine but it’s 120 pages - I think after reading the first 20 I have a plan of attack. Long story short gonna give the liners (not shells) 175 degrees for 10mins in the oven and then put in shells and walk around. Do that 3x and see if it helps. I’ll report back if it still doesn’t work.
Yep heat the liner, not the shell. That looks totally normal for a first time fitting.
Only if you haven’t added or subtracted corkQuote:
Originally Posted by enginerd
Wrap them in a towel so they don’t have any contact points to hot iron. I pre-heat to 170 (lowest setting) and then shut the oven off, put in for 10-12 minutes. Ideally it works best if you have a heated boot bag to soften the shells up a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmvolatile
IMO the best fit you can get is to have a boot that generally fits your foot shape well with stock liners, a little tight in a few places is fine. If you have extra tight areas/pressure points or areas where you want a bit of extra room (I.e. sides of forefoot, toe caps, instep) pad those up with foam under your sock. Use thin socks.
Then get zipfits, and throw them into a warmer for a bit (not as hot or long as most normal liner molds, but warm enough to help cork move easier).
At the same time, put the shells in the Salomon/atomic boot oven for a full heat mold bake.
Once those are both ready, pop them out, put In your foot beds in liners, then feet in liners, then liners/feet into boots. Lightly buckle, stand in a skiing stance for 10-15 minutes until cool.
For me, this process produces a “plug like” boot fit, but comfortable enough to ski all day 7 days a week. I have maybe 125 days on my shells and zipfit freeride liners after doing this? I just now have moved from the thinnest sock I can find to a slightly thicker sock due to “packing out” after 100+ days. Magic boots for sure.
I have never had to bother adding or removing cork with this method. I use a heated boot bag every day, my feet start warm and stay warm. It also makes getting into the shells a lot easier.
In regards to the comments above - my shells were much too small with the zipfits prior to baking. My Salomon X-Pro 130 shells are made for heat molding and expanding a lot, but I’m pretty sure most shells these days can do the same thing.
IMO, it makes sense to start with shells that are too low volume to start (with zipfits, not stock liners), and do the molding process with shells and liners to let them expand where needed, and it won’t expand where it’s not (internal pressure is what causes the shells to expand).
Only heating the liners only works if the shell volume is big enough for zipfits to start, which it often is not. Only heating the shells can work too, but you’re just adding some extra days of break in to get the cork to move while skiing, and you also have a better chance of causing hot spots or actually having the shell expand too much in certain areas where the cork is too thick from the factory. Eventually if the cork migrates out of those spots, you can end up with slop there.
I still have a ~1cm shell fit post baking.
My .02
I don't disagree, but heating the shells and the risk of over tightening, which is a bitch when you figure out you ovalized the holes where the t-nuts sit. I know this from experience, last season. Found it a lot simpler, at least less stressful, to do incremental heat fittings of just the liners. Heated boot bag that rarely goes above 40°C for the shells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggydude
So, my process is, after adding, subtracting or just moving cork,to put my hot air stove on at 75°C, think for a second what that might mean in Freedom units, dismiss that thought, throw liners in the oven without footbeds(I have forgotten that step once or twice, never a good idea), leave them in for 10-15 minutes. Throw in footbeds, put on my ladies' 40 denier stockings(I ski with these, pretty sexy), liners on, tighten the crap out of them, enter shells, pull the heel tab up while alternately leaning forward and stomping down, then stand still, go into skiing stance, walk around, do whatever. It's not much fun, but at least it's not painful.
If you're getting cold feet in habitable temperatures, it's very likely that some cork can be moved from one place to the other, most likely a hindrance of venous return.
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For sure, a key word is lightly buckle the boots so you don’t deform the shells or holes. Just tight enough to snug them up and get the overlaps in place properly. You also have to know/figure out the right temperature and length of time to bake your specific shells, it varies brand to brand and boot to boot. Overheating the shells is definitely a recipe for problems. In that regards it’s much easier/safer to do this process with boots that have heat molding instructions from the manufacturer to begin with (like Salomon and Atomic). I think some other brands do have official recommendations now too, but I have no idea.
Heated boot bag every day use is just to get the shells warm enough to flex well getting the liners in start of the day, and for overall foot warmth by starting in warm boots.
The liners or shells don’t get that hot, but are warm enough to do a “micro mold” every day of skiing and have the cork warm enough to flow a bit if needed. It makes more of a difference the first 10 days on snow, after 100+ days I don’t think my liners are really changing in any way, although the first few days of the season I also feel like my feet/legs and liners are re-adapting to eachother.
I used our fancy steam oven in convection mode which can get down to 150F….our regular oven only goes down to 200F. My wife’s face is priceless when I’m pulling leather liners out of the new oven.
The first time I heated the liner, and stepped in the shell I had to push damn hard. And I don’t have a low volume shell though.
Easier second time. And then easier again the third time.
Now I drive to the hill with my liners and shells inside a heated boot bag.
Even easier.
After 3 bakes and 15 ski days they’re awesome.
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Another thing I did, and still do, is warm up two bottles of water (get them hot, not boiling. 3-4 minutes in the microwave) and put one in each liner while in my heated boot bag on my 45 minute drive to ski.
I don’t put my shells in the heated bag, it’s too big of a bitch to get my liners back in my boot without my foot in it.