Wolves are rad.

50 yards off the road. Looking a little rough. 1000#s of rotting bison must not be agreeing with him..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d2a46ff83e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c7ddfb0fa6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f118686806.jpg

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^^^Did the landowner put that bison down because it was injured/dying, or because they wanted to feed the wolves?

Either way is cool with me, just curious.

Turner ranch. They put a couple bison down that were sick.

The guide said this is the largest wolfpack in the continental US. Flying d Ranch.

Here’s a piece on what Turner is doing with wolves at Flying D.
Great that he wants to do stuff like this

Will have to watch that. Early 2000s I was working in the big easy area of big sky. One morning I was chaining up the work truck with a 5th wheel right before the ousel falls bridge. It's cold as fuck and I'm trying to get shit done. As I'm tensioning last chain I get a weird feeling. I turn around and less then 20ft away on a small rise next to the road I see a large black alpha wolf, then 6 more. They all are looking at me. I was in awe. Then I made a bunch of noise and they very slowly walked away while I jumped back in the truck. Another very early morning before the construction rush in Gallatin canyon I was just past Spanish ck and I had to slam on my brakes to not hit the huge wolf in the middle of the highway. Still the biggest wolf I've ever seen and it stopped dead in the middle of the highway and stared at my little toyota before disappearing into the woods. Both of these encounters were quite a bit before FWP were admitting wolves were any further north of Taylor fork. I know big suprise.

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Originally Posted by TBS

Here’s a piece on what Turner is doing with wolves at Flying D.
Great that he wants to do stuff like this

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Now that really was rad. Thanks for sharing.

Big takeaway points for me are 15:30 and 19:30 on.

Enjoyed the video. I "like" wolves too, as long as they are managed effectively.

Ted Turner bought that ranch as a plaything. He never had to make a living off it. He can absorb a lot more losses than an average rancher operating on a razor thin margin, so what does he (or his mouthpiece in the video) know about "insignificant" livestock losses? He's a godamn billionaire.

Also, he charges a few rich fucks thousands of dollars every year to shoot a bull elk on his land, but that ranch sees nothing remotely close to the hunting pressure on public land. Thousands of elk still hang out on his land to hide from average everyday hunters, so to say that the wolves have had an "insignificant" effect on the hunting is really disingenuous and ignores the very real effect wolves have had on public land hunting in SOME areas where they have not been effectively managed.

Be a sweet gig to chase wolves around on Ted Turner's ranch though. I wonder if that plays into her findings.

It's been interesting being the chef of the hunting camp. On a break now between archery and rifle.

4 clients a week for 9 weeks. Flying d let's us take 37 bull elk max.

Archery is hard. Made harder when half or more of the clients can't walk 100 yrds wo dieing. Most are rebooks who have been coming for 20/30 yrs. Old boys club.

One cool guy and 3 douchebags each week pretty much. Some cool ppl but the trophy hunting thing is pretty wack. Not sure I'll continue to do it.

The guides are cool as hell though. And spend 15 hrs a day w the dB's. I get to see them at meals only.

They pay 30 grand to get a guide to call an elk right to them. Most of these ppl have trophy rooms bigger than our houses. Crazy town.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Enjoyed the video. I "like" wolves too, as long as they are managed effectively.

Ted Turner bought that ranch as a plaything. He never had to make a living off it. He can absorb a lot more losses than an average rancher operating on a razor thin margin, so what does he (or his mouthpiece in the video) know about "insignificant" livestock losses? He's a godamn billionaire.

Also, he charges a few rich fucks thousands of dollars every year to shoot a bull elk on his land, but that ranch sees nothing remotely close to the hunting pressure on public land. Thousands of elk still hang out on his land to hide from average everyday hunters, so to say that the wolves have had an "insignificant" effect on the hunting is really disingenuous and ignores the very real effect wolves have had on public land hunting in SOME areas where they have not been effectively managed.

Be a sweet gig to chase wolves around on Ted Turner's ranch though. I wonder if that plays into her findings.

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You may have missed the part where Turner expects the Flying D to be profitable.

Would it surprise you to know that cougars take more livestock than wolves in Montana and Grizzlies take about 3x more livestock? And coyotes are the biggest livestock predators in the state?

https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/ho...ed-in-montana#

And if so many elk head to the Flying D during hunting season, wouldn’t the wolves follow and kill them there? Last I heard wolves have little respect for boundaries and hunting seasons

Pretty sure the d is in profit. Thousands of head of bison all reserved for whole foods. Don't really know though.

I’m just going off what was said in the video…

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Originally Posted by byates1

Pretty sure the d is in profit. Thousands of head of bison all reserved for whole foods. Don't really know though.

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And Ted's Montana Grills. I've done a fair bit of business opposite Ted and let me tell you, he doesn't do any commercial thing for free or a loss.

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Originally Posted by TBS

I’m just going off what was said in the video…

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That too. Although I'm confused why margins and profitability are even being discussed when wolf kill reimbursements exist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Enjoyed the video. I "like" wolves too, as long as they are managed effectively.

Ted Turner bought that ranch as a plaything. He never had to make a living off it. He can absorb a lot more losses than an average rancher operating on a razor thin margin, so what does he (or his mouthpiece in the video) know about "insignificant" livestock losses? He's a godamn billionaire.

Also, he charges a few rich fucks thousands of dollars every year to shoot a bull elk on his land, but that ranch sees nothing remotely close to the hunting pressure on public land. Thousands of elk still hang out on his land to hide from average everyday hunters, so to say that the wolves have had an "insignificant" effect on the hunting is really disingenuous and ignores the very real effect wolves have had on public land hunting in SOME areas where they have not been effectively managed.

Be a sweet gig to chase wolves around on Ted Turner's ranch though. I wonder if that plays into her findings.

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Wolves aren't to be managed so that hunters have more opportunity.

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Originally Posted by DBdude

Wolves aren't to be managed so that hunters have more opportunity.

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Who says? You seem to forget that wolf management is largely PAID for by hunters through license fees. Here is a book you might find interesting.

How Sportsmen Saved the World: The Unsung Conservation Efforts of Hunters and Anglers https://a.co/d/3AdwuiP

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

And Ted's Montana Grills. I've done a fair bit of business opposite Ted and let me tell you, he doesn't do any commercial thing for free or a loss.




That too. Although I'm confused why margins and profitability are even being discussed when wolf kill reimbursements exist.

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Yes, we all love being "reimbursed," don't we? Since you seem to know so much about it, perhaps you could explain to us in detail the specifics of the various compensation programs. How long does it take to get paid? How much paperwork is required? Does it actually cover the costs? What type of proof of kill is required? How much of a time suck is it for the rancher? That type of thing. You can start your research with this 2024 article that took a five second search to find.

https://www.agalert.com/california-a...hers-runs-dry/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Yes, we all love being "reimbursed," don't we? Since you seem to know so much about it, perhaps you could explain to us in detail the specifics of the various compensation programs. How long does it take to get paid? How much paperwork is required? Does it actually cover the costs? What type of proof of kill is required? How much of a time suck is it for the rancher? That type of thing. You can start your research with this 2024 article that took a five second search to find.

https://www.agalert.com/california-a...hers-runs-dry/

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I hear you and appreciate your differing perspective in this thread. If it’s anything like any other government reimbursement program it’s probably slow and arduous and delivers at just about the break even mark. As it’s intended to - the government doesn’t reward people for losses, it does the bare minimum to make them whole. I don’t need to do any research to know how government reimbursements work.

That said, I don’t think that’s any reason for the shoot, shovel, shut up approach that some ranchers proudly espouse. Which, if you’ll recall, is my only gripe with ranchers as it pertains to this specific topic.

It’s a risk to ranch in areas where predators, not just wolves as TBS points out, take their prey. You can either accept that cost of doing business and mitigate it through public reimbursement or private insurance, but thats no excuse to appoint ranchers as the arbiter of wildlife management - by their own gun or otherwise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Who says? You seem to forget that wolf management is largely PAID for by hunters through license fees. Here is a book you might find interesting.

How Sportsmen Saved the World: The Unsung Conservation Efforts of Hunters and Anglers https://a.co/d/3AdwuiP

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don't care - wolves will manage and cull the heard

i am familiar with hunting of all sorts and the hunter as conservationist in my opinion is a fact in water fowl. not in the large mammal setting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Yes, we all love being "reimbursed," don't we? Since you seem to know so much about it, perhaps you could explain to us in detail the specifics of the various compensation programs. How long does it take to get paid? How much paperwork is required? Does it actually cover the costs? What type of proof of kill is required? How much of a time suck is it for the rancher? That type of thing. You can start your research with this 2024 article that took a five second search to find.

https://www.agalert.com/california-a...hers-runs-dry/

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let's really gt bacjk to basics. range fed cattle a pimple on the meat industries ass. ranchers get a shit ton of money in various programs. it's not a right to run cattle on federal land. it's just as much my land as theirs and I prefer wolves be left alone

you don't have to like my opinion

I don't like yours

It's as much my land as anyone else's in this country

second, if you can't make money - go out of business. shumpeters theory of creative destruction

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Originally Posted by DBdude

don't care - wolves will manage and cull the heard

i am familiar with hunting of all sorts and the hunter as conservationist in my opinion is a fact in water fowl. not in the large mammal setting

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You are wrong. But it is TRG.

https://youtu.be/-FYv4yjOi2Q?si=OtOokGiRJJ3gpuZ2

Pretty in depth on wolves

I propose that in any place where there is open season on Wolves, there should also be open season on range-cattle. Seems fair.

The vandemics are eating the animals.

Happy 30th anniversary of wolves being reintroduced to Yellowstone NP

Attachment 510005

Unfortunately we lost the Queen recently. She had a good run.

https://mountainjournal.org/legendar...ith-rival-pack

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Originally Posted by GiBo

Unfortunately we lost the Queen recently. She had a good run.

https://mountainjournal.org/legendar...ith-rival-pack

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I saw that last week. That's an incredible run; what an amazing tale of survival and growth she gave to her pack and the Yellowstone wolves.

Anyone encountered wolves or coyotes in the alpine in the dead of winter?

Heard some howling and whooping that was clearly canids at several points, and I actually saw one canid atop an alpine rock pile at ~11,900ft on the west face of the divide. I spend a lot of time in this drainage and had never seen this before, much less on a sub-zero day in the winter. It struck me as very odd for either coyotes or wolves as there is limited prey up there and the weather is harsh.

I saw four wolves last summer in the alpine, ~11,000 feet which is high for Montana and far above treeline. They were going after some bighorn sheep, chasing them into cliffbands where the sheep seemed to have a big advantage. Seemed odd to me to see them that high chasing that game, but what do I know. The deer and elk in the lowlands would seem like much easier prey.

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Originally Posted by summit

Anyone encountered wolves or coyotes in the alpine in the dead of winter?

Heard some howling and whooping that was clearly canids at several points, and I actually saw one canid atop an alpine rock pile at ~11,900ft on the west face of the divide. I spend a lot of time in this drainage and had never seen this before, much less on a sub-zero day in the winter. It struck me as very odd for either coyotes or wolves as there is limited prey up there and the weather is harsh.

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Not often but I vividly remember riding the gondola on Aspen on a powder day in February years ago and watching a coyote making first tracks on the top of Bell Ridge right under us as we were riding up. No idea why he was up there.

I saw one on a ridge at about 7500 feet in February 2 years ago. Not exactly alpine but above treeline and about 1500 feet above the valley floor.

I've seen coyotes at Kirkwood. 7800' One allegedly ate a ski bum's crock pot contents. Sugar Bowl had trouble with ropes getting cut into 6 inch lengths. Forget whether it was foxes or coyotes. 6900'
If "alpine" is above treeline, then technically no. Also rarely sub-zero in freedom units. As for harshness, the Donner Party left vivid notes in their diaries. They camped and died 1000' lower. If Sugar Bowl had been built a century earlier, they'd have found the lodge and escaped the history books.

They got better places to be.

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/post/coy...dzie/15797022/

It might have been 11,700 but either way it was above treeline on that particular slope by a few hundred feet.

I've seen coyotes well above treeline, but perhaps it was more of the later winter/ early spring season. Hibernating marmots and pikas would potentially be a tasty treat? Or winter kill, I've seen plenty of elk carcasses on the snow near and above treeline in my travels.

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Originally Posted by summit

Anyone encountered wolves or coyotes in the alpine in the dead of winter?

Heard some howling and whooping that was clearly canids at several points, and I actually saw one canid atop an alpine rock pile at ~11,900ft on the west face of the divide. I spend a lot of time in this drainage and had never seen this before, much less on a sub-zero day in the winter. It struck me as very odd for either coyotes or wolves as there is limited prey up there and the weather is harsh.

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Yote mating season is about to start.

If you're ever curious to read what a large segment of the population thinks about wolves and wolf reintroduction (which from the comments most believe wolves are exactly as portrayed in movies and that livestock "were there first") have a go at this rousing FB "discussion". I don't follow Joe Rogan and the last time I heard him say anything of value it was on News Radio, so I'm not sure how this ended up on my feed but here we are and now it's on yours. Sorry in advance.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1E7CMdVP7c/

respectfully, I believe most are in a silent majority and dont comment to things like wolf reintroduction on places like Facebook - There was a comment ( it may even be in Rogans post) that decision like wolf reintroduction dont belong on the ballot - that I agree with, but this is the system that we have come to, and it is my understanding the voters in CO approved a measure to reintroduce wolves. I am not persuaded that this is going to cause any hardship for Joes friend thirty minutes from Aspen nor that these wolves were released on Joes friends ranch ; wolves are predators, I will agree to that ; but the idea that they are the threat they could be in the nineteenth century, ,,, defies Reason. As a species, ,,,, we seem to needs to control or kill anything that we perceive as a threat. perceive-d threat. [coexist] is the bumper sticker I would add to my [change for a nickel, eh! ] window sticker... Joe is a highly effective influencer. But I dont believe he speaks for the real [most] - no do I. There is a place for wolves in a healthy ecosystem - it has been shown repeatedly over the last forty years and sixty years... https://cpw.state.co.us/news/0111202...15-gray-wolves peace, my friends skiJ

SkiJ--congratulations on a readable post.

Oh… who the hell knows what killed that elk. We have legs like that from mule deer in and around our property every season. Dogs find them, carry them to the house, and I stick them in the deck rafters.

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Originally Posted by summit

Anyone encountered wolves or coyotes in the alpine in the dead of winter?

Heard some howling and whooping that was clearly canids at several points, and I actually saw one canid atop an alpine rock pile at ~11,900ft on the west face of the divide. I spend a lot of time in this drainage and had never seen this before, much less on a sub-zero day in the winter. It struck me as very odd for either coyotes or wolves as there is limited prey up there and the weather is harsh.

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In my experience, wolves are like a lot of things in the wilderness--if you think it *might* be a wolf, it's most likely not. But when you actually hear one or see one, you will definitely know it. Call it primordial intuition or something to that effect. They are unmistakable and really cool.

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

I've seen coyotes well above treeline, but perhaps it was more of the later winter/ early spring season. Hibernating marmots and pikas would potentially be a tasty treat? Or winter kill, I've seen plenty of elk carcasses on the snow near and above treeline in my travels.

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I saw a pair of coyote cross Paiute pass (11,417' - the Sierra Crest) in the snow when they were many k above treeline and not much food out and about because there isn't much in the Sierra, they were just wandering.
and rogan's a moron.