I haven’t skied the M102, but I’d probably go the other way with it. K108 is soft chop and tight spaces, M102 is firm chop and open spaces.
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I haven’t skied the M102, but I’d probably go the other way with it. K108 is soft chop and tight spaces, M102 is firm chop and open spaces.
I could see you enjoying a 184 K108 at a place like Mammoth. But I could also see you wishing you got a 184 M102, since it is the more versatile of the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
I own the 184 in both. Last year when we had softer snow more often, I favored the K108. This year has been more and longer high-pressure spells and I have skied the M102 more.
I can see both points. I will likely sell my M102s the end of this season having really become one with some B97s this year, but immediately thought hey there's an opportunity for some K108s to sneak back into the quiver. Or even the 88s/Kendos which everyone I know who has skied em is really impressed. Really dialed line they've got.
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I own both the M and K in a 184 and would have a hard time giving up one over the other.
In December when it snowed every day I found myself on the Katana even when it was so deep I normally would have been on a 118. It's just so capable in powder.
Last week I took both to Targhee. Skied the M102 before the storm and the Katana during and after.
I really like my 191 M102s and always looked at the Katana as a possible next ski. Problem I have is my past few Mantras(m102s, m5s) never last a full season before the titanal starts to delaminate and then eventually totally delams.
Really been enjoying the K108s in spring conditions. Loose enough, but still have backbone.
Also, FWIW, I've felt like the 177 is plenty of ski at 150 lbs. I am used to more progressively mounted and tapered skis, though.
Urban Alpine in Squamish has this year’s K108s for $599CDN (177 and 184). Which is less than I sold my never-skied, 1 mount same 2022 K108s for.
I’ve considered buying them again….for no other reason than to initiate a drunk Gaijin rant.
that logic pencils out, do itQuote:
Originally Posted by kc_7777
https://www.ebay.com/itm/18533122639...QAAOSwZ3ZiJ~AQ
Good price on some big boy skis and bindings.
Thanks for this KC; just grabbed a 191. Urban Alpine is a solid resource. Search for the unicorn continues.Quote:
Originally Posted by kc_7777
Interesting feedback on the M102. I sold mine a few weeks ago. I liked them but (like you) I need a 108 ski as a daily driver based on where I ski. And I need good soft snow performance, which the M102 lacked IMO, it's not awful but just a little more tip diving than what I wanted. That's also where I wonder if the K108 might not work well for me. Even though it's wider underfoot than the 102, I feel like I desire more early rise and tip rocker. I'd like to try them though and see how they feel. Next season for sure I'll demo some.
Just compared 2022 177 M102 to 2022 177 K108, and oddly the M102 is 1cm longer, if someone is on the fence on length.
Sylvan,
I want to hear the full head to head compro of those two boards. They are at the top of my to get list in this category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
This. K108 vs M102
I had the 2020 M102 for a bit and I wasn’t a fan of it in super tight spots on Blackcomb. It ripped groomers. Never really skied it in wide open stuff, and actually never skied it at Whistler. Always Blackcomb.
Currently have 8 other skis in the quiver that work well in tight spots.
Got a pair of Pivot 18s that are ski-less. Do I wait for the Unleashed 108…which will be like all my other skis? Or….I have 2022 K108s on my radar again.
Funny but they’re actually $30 cheaper than what I sold my un-skied 2022s for back in January. That’s a +4.3% return. Stock markets are down ~10% since January. So I’ve made more money selling a ski and re-buying it versus being in stocks. I love this kind of math.
Paging Gaijin to the drunk rant phone…
Nah, I'll mostly let it slide.Quote:
Originally Posted by kc_7777
You don't want the 2020 version, though, if this is for a potential melt/freeze quiver spot. I find the carbon tip to be painful on the ears in my M102. I assume the K108 is the same.
And since you have so many skis in that category, you should put that Pivot on a FL113 from Marshal. Something to drift that wind-buff with. What's your 110-115 range look like?
On a side note, I made 20% transferring the majority of my US investments to Japanese Yen last month. My US stocks were just beginning to descend but other exchanges were going up. Yen is at its lowest point that I've seen in 18 years. Instead of skis, you should be buying yen. A 20% increase in a month after a fairly stagnant 18 years is a huge number. Then, when your US preferred stocks begin their rebound, maybe the yen will be stronger, too, for a sell... maybe. The yen might be a slower recovery rate, though. I don't doubt it could linger 125:1 or 130:1 for another year.
You made 4% from encouraging my last rant. So maybe I'm wrong again. I have been known to lose large amounts of capital. But being fluid since Ukraine happened proved worth while.
On the topic of the “pingy”’carbon tips, I only found that to be the case on my 184 M102’s from 2020. I’ve since owned three pairs of K108’s (two 184’s, one 191), two M102’s from 2021 (184 and 191), and a 184 M6 and none of those had the same pingy sound. It was gone. But maybe that sample size isn’t enough for some. YMMV.
Well, it’s my 184 demo M102 from 2020 that are pingy, so…. I trust you for sure.
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Gaijin - glad you are making some money and are more liquid. I think it’s going to be a rough summer for stocks, then real estate. The good times of easy monetary policy are over for a while.
I’m looking at the 2022 K108 or MB108Ti. I’ve got all summer to decide.
Anyone have an interest in a pair of 177s? Really good condition, skied them probably 10 times last year. Mounted with wardens at 305, could sell flat or with bindings.
Doing some summer quiver pondering, and while I really enjoy the k108s, might try something with a slightly more progressive mount point for next season in this width. Wouldn't hate keeping them but want to see if there is any interest.
I love the squads. They and the LP105s are two pair of skis I have backups for. I love the 191 K108 my only complaint was on me... in retrospect knowing what I know now I would have tried them forward two or three cm fwd, mix it up and complement those other two skis and the M102s too at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Thomas
K108s felt to me to be from the future, the whole line is dialed. But I've been enjoying a few skis now around -8. Tester looks to have his way forward I wonder if that helps stay ahead of where the sidecut tightens up.
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Where did you mount the katana to start?Quote:
Originally Posted by bry
I'm only on the 177 but I've skied them from +0.5 to +1.5 and prefer +1.
I know this is sacrelidge with volkl but that feels best to me.
On the blaze 106 I liked +2cm.
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You guys prefer this Volkl line forward of the line?
I’m remounting my M102s and might have to compromise.
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I do... Not sure of others. I use demo bindings and try different mounts regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
Of course my binding and boot choice will affect that... Possibly differently than you.
What's your BSL?
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Short. 296. (25)
I’ve read people mounting various Volkl +1. Seems like if you have choose, forward is more preferred to backward.
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I'm 295 and ended at +1 on the katana.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
±0.5 and I needed more forward pressure to turn. +1.5 and they feel a little less damp from a more neutral stance with less shin pressure. Both still manageable.
Im splitting hairs here but I've played with it a lot and keep coming back to +1cm for me.
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I should add that I'm in Mach1 130 LV and low ramp angle Tyrolia Attack2 bindings... For what that is worth.
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Mounted them on the line, nothing wrong with them there. Just looks like they may have a big sweet spot and thought if I went forward they'd come alive a bit. Sylvans at +1 on his 191s too I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
Yeah they do have a big sweet spot. +1 or 2 sounds ok but I'd be skeptical about ±3.Quote:
Originally Posted by bry
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Haven't skied the katana but did my m102 at +1 after playing around with a demo pair. Personal preference obviously but I'm finding I like most volkls I have skied just a little forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
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I love forward mount discussions on the Katana thread. Where were you guys a year ago!
At +1cm you’re still at -10cm on a K108 or M102. I know these skis can both rip wide open spaces. But if you ski really tight and steep and technical terrain and want a forward mount (for more maneuverability) then don’t buy a Katana or M102 IMO.
My M102 was a great ski on early morning groomers. Just clunky when we went off piste into the tight stuff when compared to my E104 (-6.5cm).
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Yeah, too funny right? I agree with you.
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I mounted my M102's on the line. If I could do it all over again, I would mount them +1. If +2 was the only option, I'd do it and not look back.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
I would never mount the M102's behind the recommended line.
Indeed! Agree with everyone else here. My 191 M102s were on the line, and in hindsight I think they would have been better for me (little more maneuverable off piste/lower swing weight) bumped forward, but they're no longer mine. K108s at +1 and very happy there. Also +2 (or more?) curious, cause, the unknown, but not to the point of drilling more holes in this pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by bry
Based on my personal experience on the 184 M102 and K108 both mounted on the line, I assumed that the 191 would ski the same way. To me the 191 K108 skis bigger and feels heavier than the 184 on the line. I have demos on these and need to try going forward. For the 191 M102’s (I got them from VON), the shovel feels really long and I struggle to feel like I’m on top of the skis. Again, have demos on them and need to try going forward of the line. Based on my limited experience, the 191 K108 feels heavier but the 191 M102 feels like more ski.
Really curious how you find the 191 M102 at +1 and +2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
After selling you my M102's, I bought a pair of 188 Commander 98's to try something a bit lighter and nimbler.
The C98 is a fun ski, but I do miss the comparatively more plush and damp feel of the M102's.
That being said, I expect my next "narrow ski" will likely be in the 100-108 range and have more rocker than both the M102 and C98. I've found that I can carve pretty much any ski as hard as I want to, and given that I don't spend much time on groomers anyway, I'd rather have a smooth, plush, and slightly looser ski for low-tide off-piste mank... something that can still be pushed hard but isn't too heavy (aka not over 2300g's). To my knowledge, the ski I yearn for doesn't exist. Except for maybe the MF108.
I love geeking over mount points. Mounted my 191 M102's at +1.5 from the back line. My justification was after comparing to old blue/orange cochise 193 that I have. These two skis are very comparable in stand up length. The cochise rec line was closer to the +1 on the M2. When I skied the cochise I liked +1 from rec. Basically split the difference and went +1.5 from back line of the M2. Awesome skis as I'm sure K108 are as well.
This is an apt description IME (M102s on the line, K108s plus 1). And agree with VON, if you do get a chance to try both your 191s forward, I would also be interested in the results. My love affair with B97s is well documented, but science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
You might want to try Season Eqpt Nexus. long effective edge, no metal but pretty damp and quiet, twinned tip. Not sure how you feel about progressive mount. I tried and didn't click with the ski, but really digging 191 K108. At least my maiden voyage today went really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by VON
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I too felt the Corvus wasn’t a charger for me, especially skiing fast on steep terrain with less than stellar snow. The only place it outperformed my OG Cochises was on a groomer. Definitely in my opinion not in the same league as the M102 or K108.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
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Been channelling my inner Rob Boyd on soft, roughed up Catskinner and Jersey groomers all week, on 191s and 189 B97s. Think, tourists as moving gates. Rode the lift with a gentleman yesterday who said B97s are like 'riding the rails.' He's not wrong.
The 191 K108s edge hold and suspension is so good too though. A little easier to safety slarve than B97s, with the expected reduction in edge hold in comparison, but on soft groom, lean em over and they'll rail over anything with ease. And in 2D, wax not required as you can live on your edges. As things trend refrozen, B97s stay smoother longer, but K108s arguably more versatile as they smash chop, charge pow, and can be pivoted underfoot better than a ski like this should. And for this class, they're not even that demanding due to the sidecut and rocker profile. Volkl got these right for my 1980s inspired preferences. New school chargers rule.