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Yeah I might go -1 from rec at most. Plenty of ski there and from reviews I’ve found it seems like the 192 can be a bit of an ass kicker if mounted further back, more so than the 182. People make them sound like very different skis…Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
Definitely a tune issue(edge high) with the 192cm BO 98 that started the “the 192cm is so much more ski” wive’s tale. Have flexed them back to back with the 182cm multiple times and just a bit more stiff like any other ski going up a size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
So make sure any new Blackops ski is flat and that the base bevel is uniform and you should be good to go.
Wes:
I have a new pair of 182's in Snowmass, if you want to look/flex.
Appreciate the offer! I’ve checked them out in a shop before and knowing myself I just need to try ‘em out or I’ll keep researching forever and still end up buying them, so I grabbed a cheap pair of 192s from corbetts before they sell outQuote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead
Sweet! Sent a message to my Corbetts contact to look for your invoice to see if he can do anything for you. He’s back from vacation next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
I went -1 on the 182s and still felt like they had too much tail, wanting to hang up and pitch me forward in soft or variable snow. I’d go farther back next time. I’m not sure how that experience translates to the 192s, but I suspect the skis have a similar balance.
I had analysis paralysis with the 192s for at least two years because of the weird reviews on that size compared to the 182s. I believe Blister even said the 192s were weird, and in one of their buyers guides they wrote they were way less park orientated than the 182s, with a much larger discrepancy between the sizes compared to other skis like MFree108s 182/192 and others.
Mr. Pretzel on here also said the 192s were meh, and it didn't ski as expected. If I recall correctly, he explained to me that most of the 19Xcm playful/charger all mountain twins didn't ski with the same character of their shorter counterparts for him, the outlier being Moments Mustache twins.. I've felt this a few times with some skis as well. When going to the 19X lengths you lose the playfulness originally intended, especially in the park, and then they also don't charge nearly as well as a more directional charger like a Volkl/Blizzard/etc.
Bob from SkiEssentials seems to love the 192s.
I was at the point where I wasn't going to buy a pair, was going to grab M6 Mantras from Corbetts instead for firm off piste moguls, and just use my Wildcat 108s for park. Then a mint pair of 192 Holy Shreds popped up with demo binders for $150 on Lone Pine... I've been handling them ever since they arrived and them seem so fun, I'm glad I finally got a set. I'm hoping for a more rubbery, vibration muting experience compared to the other 19X softer twins I've experienced... which I fully expect since they are "Blackops". Also hoping they are significantly more jibby than Wildcats.
I wish someone would make a super twin. Something like a 184 Monster 98, with a wider twinned tail to be more symmetrical, and slightly longer to make up for the twinning effect. Same beefy construction.
First things first, if the tails are grabby - check the tune. I went back 2cm from rec on my pair (which make the tails stronger, if shorter) and hated my first pair and really struggled with my second pair at that mounting spot. I then checked and fixed the tune on my second pair. The tails went from feeling stuck/catchy to being very loose (when you want them to). So if they feel like shait, then check the tune before giving up on them.
Also, the BO98 is a strong ski in that its construction can rally - strong underfoot and damp ends - and has a sidecut that does what you tell it to. They will not want to drag you into a turn like mantras (or any volkl), but will happily do so if and when you tell them to. The best compliment I can give them is that they are kinda meh across all conditions while still being fun, which is exactly what I am looking for in this type of a ski.
And yes, writing a hot take on them upthread while being hammered might have hyped them a bit too much, but still - they are great skis for the right skier imho.
Interesting, thanks. What was the issue with the tune so I know what to look out for? Or were the tails just too sharp
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If a ski feels too grabby/hard to pivot, seems “stuck in a turn” then the likely cause is an edge high ski and/or the base bevel is not uniform tip to tail(should be 1 degree from the factory). Skis that seem super loose and unstable like your skiing on marbles, the ski is usually base high and possibly over bevelled(base bevel way above 1 degree).
Stone grind to flatten the base and reset the base bevels and then re-establish base bevels to cure either issue.
All my BO 118 and Sender Free 110 have been base high and my BO 98 were edge high.
Is the 192 BO98 stiffer than the BO118, or still similar (middle of the ski)? I'm on the fence too.
The BO 98 192cm is a bit softer at the extreme ends vs the BO 118, similar in front/behind the bindings and the 192cm BO 98 a bitt stiffer underfoot. The 182cm BO 98 softer everywhere else but similar underfoot to the BO 118. The BO 118 more uniform flex tip to tail than most skis out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
If you are familiar with the Dynastar MFree 108 flex, the BO 98 are similar.. The difference in flex between the 182cm and 192cm MFree 108 is larger though than the BO 98 line.
Nice, I like that uniform flex, but it's it's a little stiffer like the SF110 then that's ok too.
Thanks for the hookup! I got a $50 refund off my orderQuote:
Originally Posted by noslow
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Sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
The SF 110 is very uniform like the BO118 but a hair stiffer throughout.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
So I’d guess the 192cm SF 110 would be similar underfoot(maybe the SF 110 a hair stiffer?) and the BO 98 still softer at the extremes.
The 192cm SF 110 should be more “demanding” than the 192cm BO 98 so that’s why I think all these reviews of the long BO 98 being some insane comp ski are way overblown.
Local shop matched Corbetts price so I now own the 182 BO98’s. Picked up some new Pivot 15s for $330CDN too. The raw should look good on these.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
My thinking is I’m alway gonna be on my HL FR110’s if there is some fresh. Also I really don’t think I need any skis between 100mm - 110mm anymore. <100mm is more fun in low tide and my wife has been taking my 96mm Aero’s (also 179cm straight pull) so these BO98’s will be perfect.
Pretty much this. They do what you tell them, easy to ski but still have some backbone. Fun ski. I think I mounted my 192s a little forward of the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
“That swingweight effect is more or less gone for the new 118 thanks to less material in the tips/tails, making it much easier to ski on lower-angle slopes and in tight terrain like glades. It floats like a dream, and it’s still more of a fall line charger than a ‘surfy’ ski but it’s much improved for ease of use in soft conditions. For that, it does give up some crud-bashing performance, but it’s still one of the most capable skis we’ve tried in choppy snow.”
From Newschoolers
I was all in on this ski until Heritage Labs sucked me onto the ST 120 FR. They're still on my radar.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
I have 193 FR110s and they rip. I only skied them for about an hour last season, but I had to have them after trying, they were that good. The FR120s are on my radar for 2025.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowMachine
I put a lot more time on BO118s and they truly blew me away. I bought a backup pair I was so impressed. I consider them more “specialized” than Moment Wildcat 118s, but the Blackops shot right up to the top of my hall of fame for specialized skis, right up there with Dynastar Pro Riders.
Both of these skis are “hero skis” for me. Like you click into them and automatically are skiing better than you would on other skis. I haven’t put enough time on FR110s to induct them into my hall of fame yet, but they were one of the most intuitive skis I’ve ever tried.
Think that’s just copy and pasted blurb from Blister or it sounds very similar. The only difference is the slightly shorter rubber sheets tip/tail on the SF 118 vs the BO 118. Still can be a huge variation between sets of SF 118 pairs as I’ve seen some at 2550gr plus each which would be increased “crud bashing performance” vs a lighter set of BO 118. Remember Blisters pair of BO 118 were 2460gr average which is on the light side for those skis. Wouldn’t doubt their SF 118 pair is actually heavier than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
I hope the FR120's are like that. I feel that way about the Deathwish, it's a cheater ski. I still want to get on the BO118.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
SkiEssentials got 2400g on their SF118 video, but Bob sounded like he was rounding down a little. I actually want a pair thats very close to 2400g. Since I have two pairs of Swamps, I’d like a pair that trades a little beef for lighter swingweight. These skis make me want to jib more than most skis, but the swingweight on my pair is beefy. Definitely interested in the other side of the spectrum. Splitting hairs here lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
I really need to try the Deathwish this season. I have no excuse not to. I’m a big fan of Wildcat 108s/118sQuote:
Originally Posted by SnowMachine
I love my blackops 118's so much more than my Blade optic 96's than Im even considering selling the lines and picking up a pair of blackops 98s... I love the rubber tips, I don't think I can ever enjoy a ski as much without rubber.
I would take the construction bits in SkiEssentials videos with a grain of salt. They are not always the most accurate, does not always even match the marketing blurb and seems to be a basic best guess at times. For instance, the MF112 does not have the hybrid core 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
I really enjoy their videos and watch most of them, but I do wish that they would prepare some material ahead of time where they sumarize the constructions AND double check that the marketing is actually accurate (it is not always).
As I thought, there’s still going to be variations in weight between pairs of the SF 118 like there was is the Swamps and the previous BO 118/Gamer.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
Saw lots of the original and Gamers close to that 2400gr range with the swamps seemed to be heavier on average. Of the 6 pairs I had of the swamps after that Sport Chek sale,, they varied from 2440gr average to your set around 90gr more. I kept the 2 lightest pairs and felt a difference in swing weight between those and my previous swamps that were just a bit lighter than your set. Also moved my mount back from -2.25cm from rec to -2.5cm which also seemed to make a difference in float for my 175lbs.
Attachment 503534
For the wank bank
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“The Wank Bank” = post of the day. [emoji23]
Also— beautiful setup.
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Haha I bought the same ski again! I was hyped about what I red here. Did not expect to be identical.
Have the same 21 CT 2.0 skis and they are fantastic playful chargers. Got the same BO 98 too and it’s definitely a similar shape and profile but much lighter(250gr plus) with softer tips/tails. Got my BO 98 to be more forgiving in bumps and trees but keeping the Faction for crud busting.Quote:
Originally Posted by twat
What are the older Tyrolia bindings on the BO 98?
I retired an older armada freeride ski and had those binders. they are peak 16 race all metal and metal rails very direct power transfer.Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
I have three glacier days on the bo98 so far. I ski them very intuitiv. They behave 100% as what they are. I think the flex pattern is more dialed in then the cts with the extra titanal plate underfoot. But after three seasons of onpiste DD it is not a fair comparison anymore.
The bo98 is very smooth on wide gs speed turns and drives on the edge till the end of the turn with no interruption.
Shorter hippy turns r lovely forgiving but still needs quads to drive them powerful. (May be later in the season this might change)
The cts had some design error in the rear taper. in the last 1/4 of the turn in steep terrain I had to release the tails to give them space to finish the turn on a different radius. Super noticeable ofpiste. Onpiste it always felt a bit weird at the end of the turn.
Always manageable. I liked the cts and I am happy with the bo98.
Need more days to have a proper opinion. But as a firn connoisseur I see them shine in the future!
Sounds like something is up with the Tune on those CT 2.0 as they have a similar multi radius sidecut to the Blackops 98/118 and Sender Free 110. Should initiate turns easier when tipped but allow lots of stability when flat.Quote:
Originally Posted by twat
Problems releasing/being stuck in a turn is usually an edge high and/or non uniform base edge angle.
Your CT 2.0 are probably due for a full grind and tune by now anyway and bet that should change the way they ski. My first set was railed and transformed after a grind and tune.
The 21 CT 2.0(and CT 1.0) have a metal binding retention sheet like the BO 98/SF 110 but also have a 2nd metal sheet underfoot above the base to protect for rail damage.
The longer turn radius and stiffer tips/tails of the CT 2.0 makes them even more stable than the BO 98 but need more speed and skier input to come alive. The 21 CT series hits a second gear when you REALLY push them I find.
I had the ct2 at least annual base grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
I tune the rest myself. 1base/2side
I will check with a truebar when I am in the garage if I see something. The cts have a lot of days on them and I buttered them a lot maybe the tails are worn out.
Was hoping you say something similar about their multiradius so it is not only me. I will give them a proper Montana shop service before I ride them again.
Has anyone skied both Revolt 121 and BO118, and can compare? I've read some about them, mostly how the BOs are more of a tank and that Revolts are floatier. But how much floatier??
Good to hear you’re keeping them tuned properly!Quote:
Originally Posted by twat
The issue with stone grinds is that the preset number of passes they do on skis at some shops might or not be enough to fix issues unless they are checking results with true bars.
If you go to a place with a full auto machine, tell them that they may not be totally flat and to program in more flattening passes than normal or even get a “blanking/race grind “ which will for sure flatten the base and reset the base edges. Then you can set the edges by hand after.
The multi radius/eliptical sidecuts are on so many skis now that manufacturers barely mention it-see Rossignol on the Blackops skis.
Still think you’re feeling a tune issue, binding delta preference(Peak bindings larger delta heel to toe vs the Attacks) or maybe mount point difference?
Where do you have the CT 2.0 and BO 98 mounted? Know early 21 CT 2.0 had confusing sidewall mounting options before they went to the single triangle at -3.5cm. Rec Bump on the more directional BO 98 is -4.7cm.
Revolts are floatier have taper and softer. The Revolts surprisingly can charge out through the tracked out runouts really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
Op’s are Monster Trucks that are ridiculous
at carving because of their symmetrical dimensions and bad ass build. They float amazing as well but just wear my ass out. Such an addictive chargey ski the way it seduces you into constantly reaching for it.
If it’s 15 plus I would reach for the Revolts cuz you can manipulate turn shapes and check up or change lines in pow quicker.
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First day on my 192 98’s today and those things are fucking missiles. I was fully folding a 130 flex boot while carving. It’s an interesting ski that isn’t as easy and intuitive as I was expecting. Unbelievable edge hold and great dampness but you have to really lay them over to get them to shine and they don’t have as much energy coming out of a turn as you’d expect for a ski that you can load up so much. Don’t feel particularly playful or maneuverable but I need more time in bumps and varied terrain. They also don’t feel at all smeary or loose but I haven’t been on a ski with fresh edges in a while so that could be part of it. I may detune the tails a little
I think this is gonna be a fun low tide ski but I have to figure them out a little more to unlock their potential outside of just destroying groomers. Right now they feel more like a forward mounted carving ski vs playful all mtn
I also got my first runs today on 192 Blackops 98s (Holyshreds), and really enjoyed them, but had the opposite experience. I found them extremely easy going, very maneuverable and poppy, and now the most easy going cambered ski in my quiver. Not as surfy as I expected, coming off other Blackops skis, they prefer a more edge-to-edge style. However they are so poppy it makes up for any lack of surf. Very light feeling on my feet, but without getting bucked around too much. But then you see something that you want to buck off of, and man do these things send! They go far with barely any speed. I thought they would be too much ski for messing around at slow speeds in the park or picking through flatter trees at Northstar, but they are PERFECT for that.
The softer flex absorbs vibez and harsh hits nicely. They definitely ski softer and more playful than Wildcat 108s/PB&Js, without giving up too much stability. BO98s might be more damp too. Which is exactly what I wanted. I will say I did not enjoy the 98s on soft or refrozen mashed potatoes. A place where I love Wildcats/PB&Js, the BO98s felt terrible. These will be low tide/firm/fully packed down snow skis for me, and that was as expected. The 98s are perfect easygoing, 2D snow, freestyle sticks for me. They probably felt super easy going for me because I started the day on Sender Squads..
Squads feel amazing! Less dense tip/tail feeling than BO118s, but longer, more directional and a more versatile width. So good. They feel more like the BO118s than the BO98s. That uber rubber feel is there for sure, whereas I barely felt that in the 98s (still really liked 98s tho, just as much). Squads are surfy, maneuverable and great in 3D snow and mashed potatoes firm or soft, and also perform well for their width on packed snow. I could daily drive these no problem.
Squads are less hooky and more surfy than Katana 108s, but longer feeling and less stable in the tips/tails. Idk if these will replace the Katanas as my daily drivers, but they are definitely keepers for sure.
I hated the 98s in any funky 3D snow, but I think they might actually take the cake for me today. Squads are probably the better ski, but the 98s are the ski I need. Basically a jibbier, slightly more precise Moment PB&J.
I didnt see your reply to this. Thanks for the info, very helpful. I think I want something more directional, even though the price of Revolts right now is super tempting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Skier
Reckoner 124s are slightly more directional and seem more floaty. But at retail price I’d rather buy an HL FR120 or HB122 and just wait for them to come back in stock. Corbetts is out of the 189 Reckoner