Truck Tire Time

Got new Duratracs in July, one was bad from the get-go (unable to balance after four tries, bad vibration at 65-70 mph), got a new one and they're okay now. More noise and minor vibration compared to Michelin AT2, but Duratracs do look awesome, so there's that. Haven't had a chance to off-road them much yet, but expect good things given the tread pattern. Not sure I'd get them again after the balancing fiasco though.

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Originally Posted by jackattack

New wheels too?

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Originally Posted by t-the-east

Same truck, What offset you got? Just went with 18mm offset rims and KO2s

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Yeah, new wheels.

These are the 701's from Method, with the fancy serrated bead seat and zero offset. First set to go on a Tundra, at least when I bought em weeks ago. They were one of the only models I could find that put the tread where I wanted and didn't have some stupid ass bling style.

The TRD forged rims coming off are probably a little better quality, but I needed to run wheel spacers with them (getting to about 18mm offset) with the rig's current suspension. I'd rather not run spacers.

Anyone want some RockWarrior rims for Tundra/Sequoia?

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Yeah, as an off-road tire, that might be a good tire. But is it better in snow? Quieter on the road? Etc. Looks like a little more off-road oriented and I am just guessing that it isn't as good in snow than a BFG AT/TKO looking at the much less aggressive siping. A lot of tires are good at one thing or the other.

I've just always found the BFG good enough in the snow for me, while still driving well in the summer, and handling well off road where I go. I've seen BFG's do 40K+ a few times on my old Taco, probably more. I have them on a F150 now and seem fine so far but only 15K in. I was on a glazed ice road a few weeks ago and helped pull three rental cars out of the ditch with no issues. I should have some good karma coming for that one.

I'm not arguing that these are the best tires in the world, but for all around mountain driving on/off road performance on a truck, they are pretty darn good. To say they suck is just plain incorrect.

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I like this post. The case for All-Terrains.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

I like this post. The case for All-Terrains.

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Yeah, I ran KO2's on a Jeep for 5 seasons. Never changed them, no issues at all. Duratracs seem to be treating me about as well, but they're stopping ~1000lbs more vehicle (2016 Taco 2xcab, longbed), so it kinda makes sense.

Attachment 257083Attachment 257084
New KO2s on right before thanksgiving. 18mm offset rims, and new bilstein struts leveled out the front end. Truck drives like a dream now. Cruised Up my hill with 6” of snow in 2wd.

my original set of BFG A/Ts lasted around 50K miles on the blazer, put them on when I bought it at 108K and changed out to new KO2s a couple thousand miles before 160K. the new KO2s have of 30K miles currently, it appears they may be wearing slightly faster but that is to be expected with the new compound. the KO2s are a noticeable improvement over the original A/T in terms of off road crawling performance in wet conditions. I don't buy the principle that their performance is adversely affected by cold weather, I have many data points and none of them suggest that.

^ They’re not. Tested them yet again yesterday in some nasty packed wet snow and icy roads and they performed flawlessly like the last 2 winters prior. Rallied up a two track in 12” of wet snow like it was nothing in 2 wheel drive. Dropped it into 4wheel just to pull off onto the side where it was muddy underneath to park to start my hunt. Didn’t have a single issue.
Same tire will go on next fall when these will be worn out.

Opinions on dedicated snow tires for a Tacoma that kickass in deep snow? Currently have duratracs on it, which I've found do excellent in deeper snow and snowy trails, and good but not great in packed but soft snow. The area they lack in, not surprisingly, is hard pack and ice. Think Montana freeways and highways. Last winter I worked for a company driving vans in LCC with Michelin LTX snow tires and my Tacoma with duratracs did better in deep snow by a good margin. Not a great comparison cuz two different vehicles but still. Dont think I want studded because the roads in Utah are usually dry and freeway speeds are high. Anyway, any recommendations? Leaning towards Blizzak W965.

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There's 19 pages of recommendations.

^^ Meh not really that I could find. Lots of comparisons of Dtracs to other AT tires, a few "my all terrains won't break loose in snow no matter what" comments, and the occasional subie observation. I found one comment about duratracs being better in deep snow then true winter tires, and would like to hear more specifics

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Originally Posted by claymond

^^ Meh not really that I could find. Lots of comparisons of Dtracs to other AT tires, a few "my all terrains won't break loose in snow no matter what" comments, and the occasional subie observation. I found one comment about duratracs being better in deep snow then true winter tires, and would like to hear more specifics

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Unfortunately, it's really hard to make that comparison without doing an A vs B test in the same conditions (plus very few people who are entirely happy with AT tires are going to bother trying true winter tires).

I've got the Nokian LT2s, and I'd expect a snowflake-rated AT tire to outperform them in deep snow; they simply don't have large-enough tread voids (in my best guess). My only comparison to an AT tire is to a cheap but 3PMSF-rated one (Radar Renegade A/T5). The Renegades perform well, perhaps as well, in softer snow but are terrifying on packed snow and ice. I haven't had enough opportunity to drive soft & deep (6"+) snow to really compare. The only time I have needed to use a shovel with the LT2s on I was high-centered, and I don't think any tire would have solved that problem.

Nokian does make an AT tire, but I don't know how it compares to the Duratracs. They certainly know how to make a tire that does well on packed snow and ice, but I don't know what they would have prioritized in that particular tire.

I wouldn't recommend the LT2s unless you need an LT tire; the SUV series has several newer models since the LT2 was released, and the newer tech is probably better.

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Originally Posted by claymond

Leaning towards Blizzak W965.

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I'd go with the DM-V2 instead. It's a more modern tread design (and presumably compound). I have a set on my Highlander and they're incredible. Only drawback might be longevity.

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

big fan of ko2’s, currently mounted on 3 flowing vehicles. that being written,
this year i’m gonna try out the nokian r3 happafffriggen studless tires on the f150screw.
per the Norseman advice i’ll mount em on steel, keep the ko2’s mounted and swap out for offseason road trips.

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I was just lookin at tire rack site. it was odd. I could not find 16” wheels in Toyota lug pattern, 17” was as small as they went. Could not find steel wheels. And holy shit snacks, they’s expensive! Also, I believe 17” tires are mo $$ than the equivalent sized 16”.... it’s a conspiracy! (or i suck at the internet)

Tire Rack might not be the best place to buy rims.

A quality post from jamal in another tire thread... all-seasons vs snows:

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Originally Posted by jamal

Tirerack has done a bit of testing. Here's all seasons vs winter
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=103

Stopping distance from 30mph is 59ft on winters, 89ft on all seasons. That works out to coefficients of friction (µ) of 0.34 and 0.51 respectively (actually they would need to be a bit higher to generate those stopping distances in the real world). A good summer tire on pavement can have a cf of 1.0 or more.

Here's winter, a/s, and summer on an ice rink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

stopping distance from 10mph is 21ft on winters (µ = 0.15), 39ft on all seasons (µ = 0.08). Extrapolate to 30mph and you get stopping distances of 200 ft for winter tires, and 376ft on all seasons. That's a long ass way- over a football field to stop from 30mph. On dry pavement you can do that in like 35ft.

What you might be able to take from that is that on snow, the winter tire has about 50% more grip. That means that from an accelerating and driving up a hill standpoint, in snow, an awd/4wd is going to have an advantage on the worse tires.

On ice though, the winter tires have nearly twice the grip. The tread pattern and depth is irrelevant in this case and the extra grip from the winter tires comes mostly from the rubber compound itself, which is much softer. If you haven't handled a blizzak, it's worth wandering into a firestone store or something and shoving your thumb into the tread to feel how soft it is. That very soft rubber, plus the siping, allows the tread to deform and provide lots of very tiny biting edges as well as having a higher µ. I'm fairly certain that bridgestone even claims better traction on ice with blizzaks than the studded winterforce.

Anyway, if you drive in snow on a regular basis I don't know why you would willfully choose to have 1/2 to 3/4 less traction. Once you have actually driven on snow tires you really won't want to be out on anything else.



E: more data:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=167
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ce-data-page-3

both generate in the ballpark of 0.15g stopping on ice, but only around 0.25 on snow.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Tire Rack might not be the best place to buy rims.

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Agree.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

I was just lookin at tire rack site. it was odd. I could not find 16” wheels in Toyota lug pattern, 17” was as small as they went. Could not find steel wheels. And holy shit snacks, they’s expensive! Also, I believe 17” tires are mo $$ than the equivalent sized 16”.... it’s a conspiracy! (or i suck at the internet)

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What Toyota are you looking for wheels for? 2010 and newer 4Runners can't accommodate 16 inch wheels because of the size of the disc brakes. 17 inch wheels are the smallest you can run.

I have my snow tires mounted on a pair of hideously ugly aluminum wheels, as they were on closeout and Discount Tire was running a 4 for the price of the 3 deal on top of that, so I ended up paying less than I would have for 17 inch steelies and they're about 12-15 pounds lighter per wheel too.

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Originally Posted by glademaster

What Toyota are you looking for wheels for? 2010 and newer 4Runners can't accommodate 16 inch wheels because of the size of the disc brakes. 17 inch wheels are the smallest you can run.

I have my snow tires mounted on a pair of hideously ugly aluminum wheels, as they were on closeout and Discount Tire was running a 4 for the price of the 3 deal on top of that, so I ended up paying less than I would have for 17 inch steelies and they're about 12-15 pounds lighter per wheel too.

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1999 land cruiser. 16" is OEM. last year, using the automated tool in tire rack, they'd give me 16" OEM wheel option and then 17 and 18" alternatives. now they give 18" OEM (i don't think that was ever OEM) and 17, 20, and 22" alternatives. i agree with norseman.

toyota also switched to 17" OEM for some vehicles w/o other changes that would functionally necessitate the larger wheel.

Yeah, disregard, my spiel on wheel sizes was only pertinent for 5th gen 4Runners.

I was recently looking through receipts for my truck and realized that I've got 50k on my 33" BFG KO2s and they still have quite a bit of life, I should be able to get through this winter no problem. 2000 land cruiser, sees offroad use, mud, snow, sand. These tires have been great: good offroad, good in the snow, nice and quiet on the highway.

They are very sensitive to a good alignment though. Without that they will wear very fast.

My Dad got a new truck and gifted me the set of studded Wintercats that won't fit his new truck. What's the best place to get some cheap steel rims to mount these on? TireRack and Discount Tire aren't showing a single basic steelie in 16"/5x135.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

cheap steel rims to mount these on

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Was going to mention this when FA mentioned getting some.

I found that using these years ago on our then Outbacks and driving through deeper snow often led to the inside of the rims getting completely packed with snow to the point that they were nearly undriveable - no steering lock, wild steering wheel shaking until they'd been cleared out with a stick or screw driver. Kind of a pain in the ass.

Haven't had the same thing happen on alloy wheels with bigger openings in the face of the rim.

Just a thought.

Hmmm, they're actually mounted on a set of steelies right now and the old man never mentioned that being a problem. I actually thought I was going to be able to use them as-is, but it turns out the bolt pattern is different by a few millimeters.

A lot of winter tire suggestions come with recommendations for cheap steel wheels from Tire Rack or similar. Steel rusts, and steel wheels bend easier than decent aluminum wheels (which can crack or get chunks torn out, but that takes some serious abuse).

If you wait and watch craigslist, or KSL in SLC, or Facebook marketplace, or whatever similar used junk site is near you, you can pick up used OEM aluminum wheels for cheap. I've done this several times for different vehicles, and never paid more than $150 for a set of 4.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Hmmm, they're actually mounted on a set of steelies right now and the old man never mentioned that being a problem. I actually thought I was going to be able to use them as-is, but it turns out the bolt pattern is different by a few millimeters.

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Maybe there was a particularly tight clearance issue on that fitment/application.. sure was a pain in the ass though.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

If you wait and watch craigslist, or KSL in SLC, or Facebook marketplace, or whatever similar used junk site is near you, you can pick up used OEM aluminum wheels for cheap. I've done this several times for different vehicles, and never paid more than $150 for a set of 4.

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Yeah, I checked KSL/CL before I posted, nothing compatible at the moment. Something will surely show up at some point, but I'm not sure how long I want to wait around.

Summit Racing...?

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Yeah, I checked KSL/CL before I posted, nothing compatible at the moment. Something will surely show up at some point, but I'm not sure how long I want to wait around.

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I have bought 3 sets of OEM take-off alloys for 3 different vehicles on Ebay. Never had to wait more than a day or two to find what I needed. Do have to be careful though and know what you are buying as there are a lot of shady wheel dealers on there. Always ran me less than the cost of buying new steelies. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Maybe there was a particularly tight clearance issue on that fitment/application.. sure was a pain in the ass though.

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I have the same issue with a set of American Racing wheels I've got. It usually happens a couple times a winter when we've got warmer days but freezing nights. It scared the shit out of me the first time it happened and now that I know wtf is going on it's just an annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Hmmm, they're actually mounted on a set of steelies right now and the old man never mentioned that being a problem. I actually thought I was going to be able to use them as-is, but it turns out the bolt pattern is different by a few millimeters.

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Can you find a set of wheel spacers that allow you to change the bolt pattern without pushing the wheels out too far?

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

Can you find a set of wheel spacers that allow you to change the bolt pattern without pushing the wheels out too far?

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So, something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/ECCPP-Spacers..._encoding=UTF8

or this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-1-Wheel...!-1:rk:10:pf:0


Thanks for clueing me into these, this might be the ticket. My current tires are 265 and the Wintercats are 235, so I have some width to work with but the 1" version is probably preferable. Or, stick with 1.5" to (hopefully) ensure that the factory studs don't extend past the outboard face of the spacer?

What about the stud size? My truck has 14x2 studs, while the vehicle the wheels came off of has 12x1.5. Will the current rims work on 14x2 studs? Would it be unsafe to use an adapter with 12x1.5 studs?

Be aware of the mechanical situation with spacers and adapters. Only get the highest quality parts, and only if you cannot find an appropriate rim that would negate their use. Their geometry must be very precise for use with hub-centric rigs... a little less important for lug-centric.

Legit sets like Spidertrax run like $100 per pair.

Rims conceal the lug nuts for the spacers, so you can't check their torque without removing the rim. Even with a good loctite, they could loosen. Torque settings matter at this joint.

That said, lots of folks run them without issue and in heavy use. Never had a problem with mine. They are annoying when wrenching.

^^^ And expect all tire shops to refuse to work on your vehicle with spacers installed.

Personally I would not use wheel spacers, ever. Even the best quality ones (Spidertrax, as mentioned) say they are for offroad use only. Just CYA lawyering, or?

http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/ctype...282/KB.4303/.f

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Originally Posted by east or bust

my original set of BFG A/Ts lasted around 50K miles on the blazer, put them on when I bought it at 108K and changed out to new KO2s a couple thousand miles before 160K. the new KO2s have of 30K miles currently, it appears they may be wearing slightly faster but that is to be expected with the new compound. the KO2s are a noticeable improvement over the original A/T in terms of off road crawling performance in wet conditions. I don't buy the principle that their performance is adversely affected by cold weather, I have many data points and none of them suggest that.

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I'm glad someone mentioned it; the KO2s are vastly improved and nearly superior in all ways over the original KOs. So much so that the original KOs were garbage in the snow - hated them. However, enough people have run the KO2s and in the snow, that I was finally convinced to try them. They a revelation in comparison, even here in the crappy, slippery junk of the PNWet.

I'm a fan.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

^ They’re not. Tested them yet again yesterday in some nasty packed wet snow and icy roads and they performed flawlessly like the last 2 winters prior. Rallied up a two track in 12” of wet snow like it was nothing in 2 wheel drive. Dropped it into 4wheel just to pull off onto the side where it was muddy underneath to park to start my hunt. Didn’t have a single issue.
Same tire will go on next fall when these will be worn out.

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Agreed. I shod my diesel burning pepper wagon with them last year as my winter and snow tire. They were glorious in nearly all conditions.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

1999 land cruiser. 16" is OEM. last year, using the automated tool in tire rack, they'd give me 16" OEM wheel option and then 17 and 18" alternatives. now they give 18" OEM (i don't think that was ever OEM) and 17, 20, and 22" alternatives. i agree with norseman.

toyota also switched to 17" OEM for some vehicles w/o other changes that would functionally necessitate the larger wheel.

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Later in the model cycle, Toyota began fitting 18" wheels to the Land Cruiser. I don't think the brakes changed so you should be able to run 16" wheels on the later 4.7 Land Cruisers.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Be aware of the mechanical situation with spacers and adapters. Only get the highest quality parts, and only if you cannot find an appropriate rim that would negate their use. Their geometry must be very precise for use with hub-centric rigs... a little less important for lug-centric.

Legit sets like Spidertrax run like $100 per pair.

Rims conceal the lug nuts for the spacers, so you can't check their torque without removing the rim. Even with a good loctite, they could loosen. Torque settings matter at this joint.

That said, lots of folks run them without issue and in heavy use. Never had a problem with mine. They are annoying when wrenching.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

^^^ And expect all tire shops to refuse to work on your vehicle with spacers installed.

Personally I would not use wheel spacers, ever. Even the best quality ones (Spidertrax, as mentioned) say they are for offroad use only. Just CYA lawyering, or?

http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/ctype...282/KB.4303/.f

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Thanks guys. Further research indicates the factory studs definitely will need to be replaced or shortened, which I think kills this idea for me unless someone has a compelling argument for why it shouldn't.

They aren’t the cheapest but i can vouch for the DM -V2. Had them in the 275/60/20 on 20” Dick Cepek alloys I got from tire rack on close out for $110ea and use as my dedicated winter rim. I’m running 1.25” spacers and had just a slight rub with essentially a 33”x 10.8” tire.

Only issue is I didn’t track rotation between seasons and now have 1.25 seasons left on 2 and the others are trash. This is after 3 seasons of ~12k miles and I think I put same two on rear drive wheels back to back seasons.


Impeccable grip coming back down the pass on those admittedly rare super icy days.

Meant to add the rub was before a mild bilstein lift.

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

upon further review it appears the Hakkapeliitta r3 doesn’t come in a 20” to fit a f150 supercrew while the Blizzaks do fit that size.
Discount Tech recommendation was to buy 18” wheels if i wanted Hakkapeliitta and Blizzaks if i was to keep OEM wheels.

anybody run an 18” wheel on a supercrew? got em on my f150 beater but it’s such a different vehicle.

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I've got a 2017 SuperCrew with two sets of OEM 18s, one for winter and one for the other three seasons. 20s seem silly to me for anything other than pavement because of the reduced sidewall height (unless you're talking about big lifts and 35"+ tires). I got both sets of rims from eBay for reasonable prices, and most importantly, neither are chrome.

Despite having those Wintercats up for sale, my mind won't let it go. I'm considering trying my luck at the local Pick-N-Pull for a set of 16" 5x135 rims. Seems like there's good odds of finding some since they were OEM on a lot of popular Ford/Lincoln vehicles. If anyone thinks I'd be wasting my time let me know.

ETA: It looks like Ford generally used 12x1.75 studs from 1997-2000 and switched to 14x2 from 2001-2003 (http://www.wheelsupport.com/bolt-pat...ttern-5-x-135/). Mine's a 2002, I assume wheels from the 97-00 vehicles won't work? Or will they? Two god damn millimeters, and people complain about ever-changing and proprietary standards in the bike industry. To make things even worse, it appears that the switch to 14 mm occurred mid-year 2000, so it's a crapshoot what any vehicle from that MY has. JFC....

Any 3rd gen Tacoma owners in here? What size tire are you running with no lift? Was looking at a 265/65 r16, 255/75 r17 or 275/70 r17. Don't want to get in to the 33" territory since this will be a DD/Commuter and I have other rigs to wheel. But you know, gotta have a little bigger than stock tire because, Tacoma Bro.

Not a TACO owner, a 4runner owner, but definitely look at the 255/75. We share the same wheel/tire sizes on our rigs, and this is what I"ll be doing next. You get some extra tire size with this, but it's narrower than stock, which helps road manners a ton, I'm told. Less wandering on grooved highways, better mileage due to lower weight/resistance, less hydroplaning, better snow manners (same weight, smaller surface area), and should do as good or better than larger tires off road with the exception possibly being in sand.