Anyone else here skiing Protests as far back as -2?
Asking for a friend.
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Anyone else here skiing Protests as far back as -2?
Asking for a friend.
(((Raises hand)))
FWIW, I also like to drive my tips. The 186 Lhasa was one of my fav skis of all time and demanded tip drive.
The 187 protest is a cold dead hands ski for me. I did get tip dive at first, but have found a sweet spot at -10.25 from true center (which is around -1 from my dimple but I think that dimple is different than most). Perhaps I’ve adjusted my technique a bit for the protest but I certainly feel like I can ski it aggressively down the fall line with “drive,” perhaps not directly in the tips but that’s okay cuz my shit eating grin at the bottom is all that matters
This was exactly my experience. I can understand why people would like the 192 Protest, especially if they mount them rear of the dimple, especially if they are a physically larger skier. The tail on Protest does not have a lot of rocker and makes you ski it more centered. I probably didn't ski them fast enough, but I felt like I was fighting the ski the faster they went...which is the exact opposite of what I feel on a ski like a BG...they get easier with speed (for me). In other words, I wanted to ski the Protest like I ski a BG...and that obviously doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
Finally, I'm over Praxis and their dimple is too forward for everyone and you gotta guess where to mount them approach. I don't have time for that nonsense.
I'm about 5'9 185lbs. I thought dimple was too far forward on my first 192s (still good there), moved to -1.25 on my current pair. Have not skied them yet. Messed around with the mount point on my 188s, I liked anywhere between -1 and -2. Bigger dudes 220lb plus I'd go -2.
The protest definitely isn't a traditional Fat Ski like the Lhasa/BG/C&D without "Tip Dive" per say.
I recently talked with Keith about it - most of the float and the balance point is underfoot and in front of the toe piece, which requires a centered stance. Light density pow is pretty easy to ski however you want, driving in and out of the snow is fun. Heavy wet pow is more like water skiing - get up to speed and plane, then smear and slash and do whatever. If you put all your weight driving forward you can/will submarine and have a bad time.
From a mechanics standpoint, it makes sense. All the buoyancy in pin-tail, fat tip skis is up front. you balance point is toward the rear of the ski, giving a natural tips up/unsinkable feel. Protest and R/R skis, all the buoyancy is underfoot, with less tips and tail. Balance point is pretty much right underfoot. Ski centered, and you'll have a balanced ride. Ski forward or rearward, and it'll be a little weird.
I love the way the Protest skis, but it require the proper approach and stance to enjoy. If you try to make it something it's not (a ski to drive the shovels hard), you probably won't click with it.
As a compulsive shin masher, I don't think the ProTest is for me. I'm back on the C&D train.
You still need to get on mine in pow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
Since I'm about to buy some C&D, we can A/B.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Protest at -1.5 and zero tip five issues. Farther back then my gpo, concept, piste jobs that were/are at -1
People who can’t get off shins should ski 100 underfoot on a pow day. That will correct that shiza.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggydude
Heck yeah!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South
I can ski a 100mm underfoot in pow and still push on my shins. In fact, I had a great pow day on an 87mm underfoot a couple years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South
Clearly I'm missing something. Having learned how to ski powder on 60mm, 207 slalom skis in the late '60's / early 70's, I thought the idea of fatties is to float. This might be a plot by the snorkel manufacturers :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
... Thom
I think this was what I was trying to convey but couldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
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I think the mount point discussion misses something. Hasn't the dimple changed over the years? There's a comment about -1 being 10.25 behind center on a pair of 187s. On my 192, -1 is 9 behind center. I could happily go further back, don't need to. Going to A/B with C&Ds though.
Sure you made the right call, LWS. For the interwebs to know - the protest works for shin mashers. I prefer to ski them neutrally, but I can definitely drive the tips and not stuff them. I'm at -1 on 187's, though I'd usually ski a 190 or 192 inbounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
I guess now since I have C&D on the way and maybe protest acolytes in my life I will be able to try both and see if I made a mistake or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
What C&D did you find?
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...p-Desist-191cmQuote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
these bulldozers with the canoe rocker.
I figure they are cheap and maybe I'll swoop a pair of the newer goatrocker C&D when a mag decides that the newest shiny ski looks better. Bound to happen around here. I mean, I sold my 191 Billygoats!
If only a 184 shows up, but I know I'm dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
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Yeah, I was just trying to help out a dude who couldn’t ski the Protests in pow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier
“If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.”
Just finished up skiing the 196 Protest 4 flex with Carbon in Japan in all sorts of snow. The Protest that stiff with the Carbon really demands a mid-foot to heel skiing style in heavier snow. In light snow, do what you want cause with the Protest is that stiff, and the snow is 2% density, nothing will get the top above the snow.
I really think Praxis has the flex spot on and by the end of the trip, I was sort of wishing I had gotten 3 flex with Carbon instead of adding Carbon and stiffening it up. We had 3 of 12 days where the extra stiffness was perfect, but those aren’t days I’d normally grab the Protest if I had my full quiver available, or a narrower pair of skis.
Maybe my tune will change back home when I have more tracks and cut up pow to ski, we will see.
Mounted -1 from the dimple
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I ski my OG 188 Hybrids at -1.5 and like them there. They're the full reverse camber version (continuous curves rocker, Keith used to call it).
I understand where the tip dive comments come from because if I try to drive my shins more/over-exaggerate, I can dive them--depending on speed. I switched from tele though, so I've always had a more centered stance merely from learning to p-turn with nothing holding my heels down.
I’ve been debating with myself whether 3 flex was the right choice on my 192s, Like hearing this. Would you say you think the stiffer flex is better in lighter density or heavier density snow?Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Overall I imagine stuff Flex is better pushing and cutting through crud, softer will float better slow speeds, but slightly more deflection in chop?
I think your assessment is spot on with the flex difference. I really enjoyed the stiffer flex in cut up pow because the ski didn’t deflect as much as I feel a softer flex ski would of, but I also haven’t skied a 3 flex Protest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggydude
I think the stiffer Protest is better in lighter density pow because it will slice through the snow and give you the float, and stability of a big pow ski. I had zero issues in denser pow with the mid foot/heel driving technique, or when the speeds got up higher, which was a challenge in Japan’s low angle trees.
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I love the flex of my map veneer 3. Feels springy but stable inbounds I had carbon and it was good but I feel this flex is dialed for 192.
There is no need to be on top of 2% density snow. Snow that light does not affect the skier or their movements. Personally, i think that’s what 3D snow is all about. You can't see the skis. You’re flying!Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Exception: It will plane in 2% if it’s 45 degrees, and a huge line in Alaska. They plane that shit out in ski porn all the time. Even then, the skier still has to do their part with leg strength, stamina, and technique. There is no unicorn ski.
This is 100000% right. The Protest is not a magical unicorn, but for me it does pow better then most other skis. It was my first selection for Japan, but would be 3rd or 4th for AK. It may not even be the first ski I grab at home on a pow days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South
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Skis really come down to the skier. I have a really good friend in Whistler. He owns 2 pair of skis (Powder and all mountain). He makes it look smooth and effortless in every condition. He'll do like 7 Spanky's runs and 4 Bushrat in Blackcomb on a single pow day. Protest be damned, but I'd be willing to wager he could out ski some people on Protests, Renegades, or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Some of my best powder days are on my Kastle MX98s. It’s all about the skier and attitude. I would of had fun in Japan on a much narrower ski, maybe not the Kastle, but Bonafides would of been fun. I see now why most people bring 105-110 underfoot and think it’s perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South
If I was to go to Japan again and I had to only bring one ski, I’d grab my Quixote’s or Super Freerides. If I brought two skis, the Protests would come again and my Scouts would make this trip this time. Japan doesn’t dictate a big fat ski.
We hit a once every 10 year storm at Asahidake, and the Protests weren’t big enough, but those storms are very rare. You are going to find knee to waste deep pow, and left overs, more then over head blower. Protests were a ton of fun, but serious over kill for 8 of our 12 days.
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Never been to Japan yet... But if I were going at this moment, the double ski bag would carry 4FRNT Ravens (104 mm underfoot and reverse camber) and the Protests... each rocking CAST touring setups.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
F**K These skis are amazing. 187cm, carbon 3 flex. Mounted them with some Shifts at -1.5 last week and took them out the other day in 5" of light Breckenridge powder. I was nervous it wouldn't be enough snow to really have fun, boy was I wrong. None of the expected chatter from a lighter carbon ski either. No idea how a ski this fat still lays an edge down at 3:30pm heading back to the car. Can't wait for my first real deep day.
If all a fat ski does is allow float then ok i guess. I like ones that allow or encourage different styles and turn shapes. I also like when they can make crusts and variable pow more fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I feel like some people enjoy trying different shapes and others are really just looking for a ski that feels like what they know. nothing wrong with either.
Mammoth is getting nuked this weekend. Protests. I cannot wait.
Toured a bunch on my protests over the last week. 3 day hut trip with windfuck and melt freeze crusts with the odd well preserved pocket. They really make minced meat of crusts. Yesterday was 40-50cm of blower. So much love for my protests!
Got about 6 days on protests. Really don't see myself buying a different ski for inbounds pow. More fun than I've had. They can be sooo quick and playful that I'm always a little surprised at how well they straightline or carve through chop.
I think I will start measuring the quality of a ski season by the number of days on the protest
No joke that's how I do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
X2 ez to remember
Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightRanger
Bahaha, QFT. 4th’edQuote:
Originally Posted by grinch
36 days on protests last year, one this year.
le sigh....