Hjortleifson has been heard, the DynaFit Vulcan

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Originally Posted by shirk

That is kinda fuckt that brand new touring boots costing a small fortune need brand new Intuition liners.

If these boots NEED Intuition liners right from day one I'd start calling that a fail.

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you gotta fit the shell to the foot. the rest is superfluous. to get the foot into the right shell, sometimes it requires a different liner from stock, and sometimes the stock liner works awesome. nothing wrong with the stock liner here, but i can see some folks having different needs, just like all boots, and wanting to swap.

blanket recommendations that EVERYONE needs a different liner is silly tho.

if i were to own my own boot shop, i would pull every liner out of every shell, and sell each item ala-carte. fit the shell to the foot, then fit the liner, as the buffer, to match the needs of the foot inside the shell, and the particular skiers needs (stiffer flex, more ROM in cuff, more compression, less volume, etc).

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Originally Posted by Scotsman50

They don't !!!...the stock liners are well made, designed to work with the boots( flex zones and stiffened tongue) and fit me and many other people very, very well. I tired my vulcans with intuition liners and actually prefer the stock liner. YMMV of course.

However, I do see a tendency among some people( not all ) to discover they NEED intuition liners as it makes them feel that their sensitivity is enhanced over other mere mortals and that they need this modification to allow them to release their full ripper potential. It adds to their self-esteem.

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The problem is not that the liners aren't well made, the problem is that a lot of people are sayin they are having problems with the fit of the mercury in the instep, if a boot hurts like hell with the new dynfit liner and becomes a perfect fit with an intuition liner whats going on?

some people (not all) just the people with fit issues would say you are full of shit

and actualy those dynafit liners are going to work in my alpine shells

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

The problem is not that the liners aren't well made, the problem is that a lot of people are sayin they are having problems with the fit of the mercury in the instep, if a boot hurts like hell with the new dynfit liner and becomes a perfect fit with an intuition liner whats going on?

some people (not all) just the people with fit issues would say you are full of shit

and actualy those dynafit liners are going to work in my alpine shells

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Sorry, yes, I should of clarified. It's pretty much just way too much volume on the instep of the liner.
And a tad bit cold. Again, YMMV. For some lower instep kinda feet maybe it's perfect!

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Originally Posted by Scotsman50

However, I do see a tendency among some people( not all ) to discover they NEED intuition liners as it makes them feel that their sensitivity is enhanced over other mere mortals and that they need this modification to allow them to release their full ripper potential. It adds to their self-esteem.

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Intuition liners cure cancer, make birds sing louder, make red Corvettes redder. Any suggestion to the contrary is HERESY

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Putting a liner in that didn't have the Achilles tendon flex panel would be a mistake (as would a wrap liner IMO) since it's going to restrict range of motion in tour mode.

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I had a Luxury liner in the TLT5 vs the TLT5 stock wet condom liner. With the Luxury liner I lost 2cms of glide compared to the wet sock OE liner. That's nothing

I just spent a couple of hours buying boots. I agree to buy new liners for a boot you just spent over $700 for is ridiculous. There are so many boots out there it is easy to find one that fits your foot. I live to tour. In my opinion the boot that is the most comfortable is going to serve you far better than the boot you think is going to have you skiing like a pro.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

The problem is not that the liners aren't well made, the problem is that a lot of people are sayin they are having problems with the fit of the mercury in the instep, if a boot hurts like hell with the new dynfit liner and becomes a perfect fit with an intuition liner whats going on?

some people (not all) just the people with fit issues would say you are full of shit

and actualy those dynafit liners are going to work in my alpine shells

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Its because you North Americanos feet have become soft and weak from growing up in super cush Nike sneakers and being coddled by your obese parents as they waddled around in their flip-flops. The liner is obviously designed for the European foot that still maintains a high arch and strength from a vigorous and virile lifestyle. You need to suck it up for a few weeks and strengthen your foot you whiny Canuk.

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Putting a liner in that didn't have the Achilles tendon flex panel would be a mistake (as would a wrap liner IMO) since it's going to restrict range of motion in tour mode

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Not a mistake at all. I put wraps in and as far as tour mode goes, I have lost nothing of any significance, but have gained less fuck around factor with seating the tongues which for me was a pain in the ass...also got rid of the pinch point near the top of the boot by the tongue.

btw not to be a weight weenie but the Dynafit liner is 340g or so. Intution Pro-tour is 220g

Nice review by Louie dawson here http://www.wildsnow.com/8831/dynafit...i-boot-review/

Anyone have issues with the plastic on the mercury?
My toe after one day looks like shit.

Attachment 127772
Attachment 127773

Seems a lot softer than my titans.
Surprised, it's prob just cosmetic...

It its NOT easy to find a boot that fits me thats why I have brand new 10 yr old ski boot liners sityting in a gear closet , I would pay Dynafit more money for a boot with intuition liners and they can keep whatever they put in the mercury, if scarpa can make money selling boots with intuition liners and quickstep fitting whats up with the rest of them??

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Originally Posted by Scotsman50

Its because you North Americanos feet have become soft and weak from growing up in super cush Nike sneakers and being coddled by your obese parents as they waddled around in their flip-flops. The liner is obviously designed for the European foot that still maintains a high arch and strength from a vigorous and virile lifestyle. You need to suck it up for a few weeks and strengthen your foot you whiny Canuk.

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I actualy have a hAZN foot (hybrid Asian) you cheap pomme bastard

edit: and I mean that in the nicest way

intuition equiped bots mean more people can have a more comfortable ski boot, I never had ski boots that fit till my 1st intuition liner in 98, also they are lighter and warmer this is not BS it is real

Why don't boot makers spec them (scarpa and dalbello do) but its obvious ...money

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

I had a Luxury liner in the TLT5 vs the TLT5 stock wet condom liner. With the Luxury liner I lost 2cms of glide compared to the wet sock OE liner. That's nothing

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I was thinking more of resistance than stride/glide length.

When the stock liners wear out I'll no doubt put Intuition pro-tours in them.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

Why don't boot makers spec them (scarpa and dalbello do) but its obvious ...money

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most brands spec liners that are comfy on the foot in the shop, trying the boot on.

intuitions are CERTAINLY not that. they are the opposite of that.

A proper G-fit liner fitting was even worse because its even more of a shrink to fit, I couldn't stand the Gfit for more than 5 min but the boot fitter said "that is the boot for you Al" , you must trust the bootfitter ...hopefully they are good

Sole in Cham who are notoriously picky about liners are not selling any Mercury or Vulcans with liners.

That said, there's a slight economic rationale on their part as well, but they are pretty stand up dudes and do very honest work.

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Originally Posted by ulty_guy

That said, there's a slight economic rationale on their part as well

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No shit.....

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Originally Posted by ulty_guy

Sole in Cham ... are not selling any Mercury or Vulcans with liners.

That said, there's a slight economic rationale on their part as well,

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Ya, they get to sell you a $200 liner on top of an $800-$1000 boot, and then sell YOUR liner to some other schmo for another $100-$150 to pop in his Cochise. "Sir we have this great liner, that tours well and will take up some instep volume for ya..."
Win-win, Are you sure they are not run by the French government?

I'm not naive here at all, but they are the boot fitters to the stars, and generally very good dudes who back up their work 100% which is more than most can say.

Ps I didn't buy mine from them due to lack of availability at time of purchase.

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Originally Posted by ulty_guy

Ps I didn't buy mine from them due to lack of availability at time of purchase.

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Such over demand/undersupply makes the whole $200 mandatory liner upgrade somewhat easier to get away with....and curious I wonder what Dynafit thinks about their policy?

They've had ongoing battles with numerous boot manufacturers about the crapiness of their liners and they still have all the boots a maggot would want.

I'm pretty sure I will bin the stock liners, probably will order some intuition pro tours since they get such good props here and I like the quick lace feature that I find very effective (and shin saving) from the solly liner family.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

Ya, they get to sell you a $200 liner on top of an $800-$1000 boot, and then sell YOUR liner to some other schmo for another $100-$150 to pop in his Cochise. "Sir we have this great liner, that tours well and will take up some instep volume for ya..."
Win-win, Are you sure they are not run by the French government?

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the question is HOW MUCH are they charging for a Mercury/vulcan with no liner and is it their store policy to sell all boots with no liner ?

Are they charging less than the list price of the boot & liner, consider the store will spend less time with 2nd & 3rd refits on customers who bought the boot, the store will have more happy customers and they may not sell many of this boot unless they change the liner ?

Regardless of what you think of them Sure Foot are big enough to order boots from the manufacturers with no liners, maybe its time for all boots to come with no liner?

My guess is that dynafit would be pretty darn pissed off (to the point of not selling to them) if they were selling mercury/vulcan/anything below MAP, liners or no. Dynafit (or any manufacturer) is not going to be happy with one retailer selling anything for grossly less than the others. If word gets out (which it is, kinda) that all dynafit liners are crap, and they need to be replaced. Most skiers will chose to buy a Vulcan w/ pro tour for $1100, than a Vulcan with stock and pro tour for $1200.*
Surefoot boots (sold w/ a sureshit liner) usually say Surefoot on them, not Lange.

*Assuming Mankiw's 3rd to be correct, which a quick observation of newschoolers.com and polyass proves to be incorrect. so who the fuck knows.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

My guess is that dynafit would be pretty darn pissed off (to the point of not selling to them) if they were selling mercury/vulcan/anything below MAP, liners or no. Dynafit (or any manufacturer) is not going to be happy with one retailer selling anything for grossly less than the others. If word gets out (which it is, kinda) that all dynafit liners are crap, and they need to be replaced. Most skiers will chose to buy a Vulcan w/ pro tour for $1100, than a Vulcan with stock and pro tour for $1200.*
Surefoot boots (sold w/ a sureshit liner) usually say Surefoot on them, not Lange.

*Assuming Mankiw's 3rd to be correct, which a quick observation of newschoolers.com and polyass proves to be incorrect. so who the fuck knows.

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I wouldn't say they're shit, mainly just a lot of volume in the instep and aren't as warm as say an Intuition.

No one said anything about them selling below MAP. If people want to pay them for their expertise and obviously pay up for an aftermarket liner as well, that's their prerogative. There's at least 10 other shops in the same town which will sell the boot w/ the normal liner at the same price. It's not like there's some sort of monopoly. And they're definitely not making themselves rich of this in the slightest so if they want to try and make a few extra bucks and people are willing to pay them, I can hardly see any issue with that.

So I tried on the Mercuries last night and other than the fact they're a little bit too narrow in the forefoot (ONLY boot I've tried that isn't is the BD Quadrant) they were also crushing the tops of my feet over the arches. I was tired and not thinking clearly and didn't do a shell fit.

Tonight I went to a different shop who said they had the One (they did, just not in my size) and when we did a shell fit on the Mercuries ('cause they're the same last as the One) I was shocked to find out there's plenty of room over the instep. Now I read here it's all the liner's fault.

<Le Sigh>. All I want is a boot that fits like a glove and doesn't cost twice as much as I've ever paid for any boot before. Unfortunately, it looks like Mercuries with Intuitions are going to be about the only boot that's going to work for me and they're going to be crazy expensive because I'll have to buy the boot, the liner, then pay a real bootfitter for modifications 'cause I simply don't trust the shops around here.

The shop I went to tonight had a pair of last year's BD Quadrants in stock and the guy said they'd fit my foot better than any of the others. I have to say, they were damned comfy right out of the box which makes me wonder how sloppy they'd get after 20 days or so. I think he wanted to sell them to me (cheap, I might add) because A) he wants to get rid of old stock and B) he doesn't want to spend a bunch of time working on boots for a picky, hard to fit customer like me. Not only am I worried about how they'll fit once the liners pack out (I absolutely hate loose fitting boots) but they're only a little lighter, not really any stiffer, and don't have any better walk mode than my Zzeus, which are 3 years old and literally beat to death.

I have "duck feet." Really wide forefoot, skinny heel but with a reasonably high arch. It's getting damned frustrating, I thought the Mastraele RS would be the ticket but it's way loose in the heel and pushed hard in the navicular area.

Hell, for what I'm contemplating spending might as well go whole hog: Vulcans/intuitions/custom fitting. I wonder how many years they'll last?

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Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie

Hell, for what I'm contemplating spending might as well go whole hog: Vulcans/intuitions/custom fitting. I wonder how many years they'll last?

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Non replaceable sole so if you're not walking across a ton of rock all the time probably a few years. Its a big nut to take on. This is the first year in my 30+ of skiing that i EVER went to a bootfitter. I also spent the most money ive ever spent on ANY piece of ski gear in my life.

Even if its not a screw on thing, is there no way to have a sole replaced on these? Pretty sure mountaineering boots can be re-soled, why not ski boots?

Dave Page Cobbler in Seattle or Rocky Moutain Resole in Boulder? might be able to. DP has resoled a pair of traditional Tec soles for me but neither he nor RMR could resole boots with the quick step in Tec inserts because they extend down into the top of the sole. I heard a rumor that Dynafit might be selling a replacement sole compatible with quickstep in inserts that DP or RMR could use to resole your boots, but I haven't confirmed.

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Originally Posted by jamesp

Even if its not a screw on thing, is there no way to have a sole replaced on these? Pretty sure mountaineering boots can be re-soled, why not ski boots?

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Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie

Hell, for what I'm contemplating spending might as well go whole hog: Vulcans/intuitions/custom fitting. I wonder how many years they'll last?

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Willie you really don't need the Vulcans. IM(very)HO it'd be too much boot for you.

I had concerns about arches getting crushed. Discovered two things: it's really easier to over-tighten them, in fact the two bottom buckles don't need to be any tighter than tight enough to actually hold the buckle closed. And really you could cut the bottom buckle off and not lose anything. After having toes blown out a little and liner cooked I'm completely comfy in them.

Buy some from somewhere you can return them after trying some boot work in case it doesn't work for you - REI, BC.com etc. Martin Rand did a great job on mine for very few $.

Just to clarify, the fit of the Vulcan/Mercury is accurate to other boots mondo size? Such as the 27/27.5 is the same shell sizing, unlike the 27.5/28 Cochise being the same shell size? Can anyone compare the fit of a 27.5 Krypton Pro to the Vulcan/Mercury?

^^Scarpa, not Tecnica, splits on the half size. So the Maestrale RS 26.5/27 is the same shell.

Cochise 27/27.5 are the same shell, but it fits a little bigger and it's often good to downsize.

For small-footed Seattleites: Marmot has a 25.5 Vulcan (no Mercuries that small). Sweet boot.

I only have one day on them, but the Vulcan is the first AT boot I've had that feels like an alpine boot.

I found the tongue swaps to be fiddly but bearable - for now. Does the performance of the boot rely on the square tongue alignment button? Wondering if it were ground off if the flex would change.

Not a fan of the buckles. Are the TLT5 buckles magnesium too? My boots have only been locked and unlocked 6 or 7 times and the stub that locks the boot into ski mode already looks suspiciously beat up. Maybe it won;t turn out to be a wear area but it looks funky.

I've got a few more days in my mercury's. Couldn't be happier at this point.
Toured in them twice too.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Willie you really don't need the Vulcans. IM(very)HO it'd be too much boot for you.

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I don't think I've ever been so insulted. :wink:

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I had concerns about arches getting crushed. Discovered two things: it's really easier to over-tighten them, in fact the two bottom buckles don't need to be any tighter than tight enough to actually hold the buckle closed. And really you could cut the bottom buckle off and not lose anything. After having toes blown out a little and liner cooked I'm completely comfy in them.

Buy some from somewhere you can return them after trying some boot work in case it doesn't work for you - REI, BC.com etc. Martin Rand did a great job on mine for very few $.

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I bought the One from Marmot. They actually seemed to fit better than the Mercury/Vulcan for some reason. No issues with instep pressure in them. Yeah, they're a lot softer than the Mercury & Vulcan but they're stiff enough with a nice progressive flex, I love the high cuff height, and really like the (lack of) weight. Got a great deal on them. Had to have them punched for 6th toe and for some reason the middle two toes on my left foot were getting scrunched and Rico at Marmot didn't have the right tool to get into that spot on the boot so he talked Sturtevants into hooking me up with a punch in that area.

I'll hold off on upgrading to Intuitions 'til I've toured a couple times in them with the stock liners and see how they work. Might not have any problems with them.

One day skiing yesterday and coaching this morning on the Vulcans. Swapped my liners in to give some more room on the instep, as others have said the stock liners are low-volume. I may eventually mold the stocks with some padding on the instep to try and open that area up as I think my Intuitions (the thinner wraps that come stock in Full Tilts) are actually starting to feel a little bit loose. I don't understand the automatic mindset that a liner not fitting your foot equals a shitty liner. Feet are different, what works for one won't work for another. It doesn't even sound like people are molding them before they drop cash on new liners which is just silly imo.

Flex is pretty ridiculous, I weigh 230-235# and I was flexing the Mercury in the shop and it felt like a very subjective/unscientific 120, I think a lot of people won't need more than that. The Vulcan is significantly stiffer. Threw them in my SL skis and they rip, even without the tongues they're plenty for me.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I had concerns about arches getting crushed. Discovered two things: it's really easier to over-tighten them, in fact the two bottom buckles don't need to be any tighter than tight enough to actually hold the buckle closed. And really you could cut the bottom buckle off and not lose anything. After having toes blown out a little and liner cooked I'm completely comfy in them.

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I found that the extra thickness of the tongue counteracted the weight distribution with the boots buckled, but I have unnaturally large flippers for feet. Not really a negative, just a different feel to the pressure.

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Originally Posted by Prodigy

Flex is pretty ridiculous, I weigh 230-235# and I was flexing the Mercury in the shop and it felt like a very subjective/unscientific 120, I think a lot of people won't need more than that. The Vulcan is significantly stiffer. Threw them in my SL skis and they rip, even without the tongues they're plenty for me.

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That;s good to hear. I had the Mercury at around 115 or so and the Vulcan at a true 130 following some prodding from GregL. Nice to get another datapoint

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Originally Posted by Prodigy

I may eventually mold the stocks with some padding on the instep to try and open that area up...

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I did exactly this while molding the liners.

I had quite a bit of uncomfortable pressure over the instep/arch area initially. Padded and then molded and the area feels snug but comfortable and I still have good circulation while in the boot all day.