Printable View
I don’t know. I’ve always been a low rider and think NTN is great. Most people I know that weren’t into it came off super active bindings (ie: HH on 5) and weren’t accustomed to actively weighting the back ski. My transition from my old 7tm’s took a couple of runs and haven’t looked back since.
Telemark may not be dead but I was hoping that the high/low discussion was
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I definitely get low sometimes on the outlaw but damn I haven’t been able to flex the Lynx enough to even make decent turns much less get low on them. Things are way to stiff for me but maybe I should take them to the resort and try to break them in more. Nice rig Laps!!
Been on NTN for 11-12 years or so (was somewhat early adopter) and they rule. But lately I've been going to opposite direction. Bought some Rossignol BC80 with NNN-BC and Rossingol BC X-6 boots, and have been trying to ski them with only marginal success.
I realized that our freeheel ancestors like Sondre Norheim developed the telemark turn not just because free heels, but because sloppy, floppy, shitty boots. After driving those NTNs hard with big stiff boots for years, trying to relearn a true tele turn to control a long skinny ski with a soft boot has caused some introspection. Realized I was backseating my downhill ski even though i was good ball pressure on the uphill ski. Started to adapt to kinda pressure both balls (heh heh) for better stability. Still can't edge them worth a shit but it's been fun trying.
Try pins and a soft wide ski. Great to feel the freedom again. Excursion or T4Quote:
Originally Posted by bio-smear
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmedslc
You're proving my point. All these kooks think they're making a tele turn, when the reality is they're relying on plastic boot and super binder to keep them upright. And sure, if it's fun who cares, but don't kid yourselves. You're not that good. Real tele skiers ripped the fuck out of every nook and cranny on leather shit and pins....and real hills like the village and taos.Quote:
Originally Posted by bio-smear
And mo-mo, I'm really proud of you. 17yrs on plastic tele gear. You must be almost pro bro.
What point?
If you could rip leather and pins, the ante definitely got up'd w/ plastic boots and better bindings. If you're weighting your back ski more, that's just shitty technique.
Every ripping tele skier I knew benefitted from the intro of plastic.
Solitude was full of ripping tele'rs back in the day.
What a reflection of today's society... Used to be a tele skier would screw in a light bulb and all the other tele'rs would watch and comment on how great the turns were. Now, even the hippies are divided.
Went to this setup for 90% flats on untracked for this big frozen lake I live in. Starting to think I should have gone pins, but the longer I'm away from them the more i despise duckbills.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Have you seen this new Rotte Xplore system?
Hippie infighting is a funny concept.
blue and red scarpas are TX Pros, right? I will need new ones eventually...Quote:
Originally Posted by atree
ripping the shit means different things to different people. (Is a bidet involved?) it's a pretty silly conversation. it's true that rick wyatt skied the grand in 3 pins and leathers. the last time i saw him, he was having fun noodling on AT gear. the team that designed the cable tele binding in the late 80's and early 90's included part of the team that previously beefed up the 3 pin binding. the cable binding was released when leather boots were the only things available, but they were designed to be used (and be more fun) in the Terminators.
i learned in mammoth in the mid-90's using rental asolo extreme's, 200 kazima (somethings), and voile cable bindings, and i was cruising runs off the top in perfect corn on my first day. i got my first set-up the following year after that: voile CBR, plastic asolo telepro's, and tua couloirs. i got a free lessons on a bulletproof day at Bear Mtn in big bear, which was a foundational experience for me.
In the late 90's, i used to take out their rental E99's and snowfields to mammoth, climbing the maintenance road to the top of chair 23, and making laps in the wipeout and dropout chutes for an afternoon. super fun and challenging. these days, i now have some madshus glitterand's and beefy salomon sns-bc boots (xadv8) for goofing off on a lightweight set-up (and poking around in the woods with the family). i haven't used them at the resort in a a few years because the skis are too slow to keep up with my kids and they're useless to me as a work ski. but they are fun for making turns. I have a different mindset of how to approach a ski hill depending on the gear that I am using, be it lightweight gear or just different skis from my quiver. i ski deep snow on my full camber mantras and my l138, but ski the same runs differently.
I'm a new NTN convert, thanks to the help from PB for clamps and groomer zoomers (Thanks again!!). my boots are TX Comps. Super fun. These will get a lot of use as my work skis. Sooner than later, I will be converting the rest of the quiver (5-6 other skis). It looks like other ntn bindings are currently sold-out/back ordered through my means of purchasing (which is good for my wallet and life budget), so i'll be switching between 75mm and ntn systems depending on conditions and attitude or if i am touring. My 4-buckle 75mm boots are garmont ener-g's. i bought them barely used a few years ago for a song. they are still holding up and not yet too floppy.
i held out from diving into ntn for years because of cost, because i kept finding barely used garmont 75mm boots (gara or ener-g) to replace the last worn-out pair, and, finally, because of the "promise" of those scarpa boots that still have not materialized.
If you drop a knee in the forest, and there is no one around to see, is it really a tele turn?
3pins and leathers are cool. Even my classic XC set-up is still leathers and voile mountaineers. Only my XC skates have 'modern' SNS pilot bindings. I've tried to carve a tele turn with them, but that toe pivot really sets me off my game.
I don't even try backcountry tele turns in the current waist-deep powder with my leathers though. Current rigs are either TTS or NTN (old freedoms) with TX Pros. Or switchback X2's on my metal-edged alpinas. I haven't used my old red T2X shells in several years, probably should pass them along.
I have an old pair of military fritschi FT-88 binders that I really want to mount on an old pair of skis, and use them with my mountaineering boots, just for kicks in the spring. Bout as close I will ever come I think to locking my heel down.
My point is that you can still ski in leather boots, especially a beginner that's meadow skipping...and they'll be a better tele skier starting that way. If they advance and think they want to do it more often then buy new plastic gear and your mechanics will be dialed. Or don't, start in plastic and just have fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
I've been a tele skier for a long ass time and overall tele skiers as a group are the biggest buch of opinionated kooks. One way only!!! Who's still got the double extra long pole plant going!?
No need for false binaries jack. Plenty of tele skiers have beefy plastic setups and light weight 3 pin waxless fat xc skis … similar to what we learned on back in the day. I’ve got a zone literally across the street that is fun to rip turns on with the light gear. But when there’s 30” new and the resort is the avy safe zone, I’m bringing the heavy metal.
Just saw your last post. How many people have you taught to Tele ski? I’ve taught people on modern beefy gear—a good alpine skier can learn the technique in a day—and then encouraged them to try that turn on the floppy meadow skipping gear. Have you found your reverse approach works better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmedslc
Lynx is sweeet. Light and robust, and 22D has been tinkering to iron out the kinks. This year, I think the best improvement is a better cam stop so the claw is more robust (doesn't grab while touring and then does grab when transitioning to ski mode). For the large, there will be softer flex plates soon and that should help those who find it too stiff. The new cam also means you shouldn't need to use power spacers. To me, those things made the binding too stiff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laps
As noted above, the small version already has options for softer springs and softer plates, though you may have to ask 22D for them as they're not (yet) available on the website.
Never said leathers were unskiable.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
I just don't think you're going to make someone a better tele skier by starting them off on 30+ yr old gear that don't have the same control or power transfer!
All you're doing is further handicapping that beginner that's already on handicapped gear.
I agree. Trying to get someone into tele with leathers is more likely to have them quit.
Also. Anyone that has never skied leather should give it a try. It definitely hones your skills and balance.
this ^^ leather sucksQuote:
Originally Posted by tuco
On lighter gear like alico double boot vs T3 really the only difference I found between plastic and leather is that the bellows travel of plastic is more linear while the bending of leather is more progressive
I got some asolo extremes for 50$ and taught 14yr old junior to tele in 3 short T-runs, I told him to put right foot forward 12 inches and leave it there while making turns to the bottom, the next run put the left foot forward 12 inches leave it there while making turns to the bottom
On 3rd run OK now alternate sides and now yer telemarking, he pops off a jump and sez ok lets go skiing
he did already know alpine skiing so it was quick study but then he has always been a pretty good athelete
I'm a big NTN fan. Really helps me keep up with my buds who are rippers. IMO much easier to get proper weight in the trailing leg too.
Unsoliticed advice: be very careful about taking NNN bindings into the BC. Especially when it's very cold. They can freeze and leave you stranded. Scared the hell out of me one time.
I have bomber plates if you want them. $hipping.Quote:
Originally Posted by wickstad
I’ve tried hard for 3 years to like Lynx, but “Light and robust” hasn’t been my experience. Tech toes that can only be skied in locked position (because they release, replaced them), springs that take a set (you have to add spacers after they take a set), cracked plates, claw grab when touring, and then pre release issues when claw releases in the middle of a turn and my tech toes aren’t locked (and they shouldn’t be when skiing) and they release. And parts aren’t backward forward from V1 to present. IDK, I have Meidjo V2.0, V2.1 and now the latest V3.0 and haven’t ever had any of the issues above. @dschane you are one of the busiest posters on EYT Lynx threads and the threads are littered with pictures of cracked plates, people posting about making their own spacers etc., I don’t know how you have come up up “robust” in your description now. I sure would like them to be, I like 22 Designs (was a HH beta tester back in the day) and have been considering trying the latest version on a pair of skis with no bindings at the moment but frankly after experiencing so many problems and reading about the same on EYT I think I’ll stick with Meidjo for the time being as dealing with the icing issues and snow build up has been less of a problem for me.
I have HH plates if you want to remount the plates and then get your HHs back into a preferable position. They came w a pair of AXLs I bought here on the cheap but I don’t need the plates. Just sitting in my work bench currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by wickstad
Hey all, been lurking this thread for a bit and I'm wondering what the best way to try tele is. I don't know anyone locally who does it, but it seems like there are some cheap setups on CL and the like. What should I look for if I'm trying to put together a beginner setup? Any brand or boot recommendations or general guidance?
NTN has been around for 15 years and it has yet to fully push 75mm into the grave. All is good. There isn’t thee perfect set up for all of telekind.
^Vonn, lots of options so hard to guide in the little time I have at the moment. My general advice is not to get the cheapest shittiest gear you can find. To my point above 75mm will do you just fine and likely cheaper but start w the boots. You may find a better deal on NTN in your size and that is all good too. Get a decent 3+ buckle boot. I am no purist so I like a stiff 4 buckle boot you can also crank alpine turns in. Gearswap here is your friend. Post up a WTB thread and ask for advice as options arise. I think Laps has some T2s in a 27.0. Go about 5cm shorter than your alpine preference for ski length and shorten your poles while you’re at it. A binding that allows you to adjust boot tension highly recommended
As someone who went through this a few years ago, I'd say any reasonably modern ski with a 75mm binding that has actual springs involved is probably fine. You should be able to piece together skis, boots and bindings on CL for under $300 if you look around a bit. Seems like there are a good number of setups roughly like this in the Seattle/Portland area, for example: https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/...431430698.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by vonn
Or if you want to go straight to NTN, I'll give you a hot deal on some boots: https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/s...430335569.html
@Vonn - I would look for Voile Switchback bindings, old or new fairly inexpensive, durable & easy to use. For new boots Scarpa T2 Eco or for used same, or old Garmont Enrgy if in good shape. Tons of skis out there that would work.
Great, really appreciate all the advice so far!
Thanks for the tip, those are just about my size. I'm not going to be picky on fit this early, but do you look for the same characteristics of an alpine fit when you're trying tele, or do you want some extra room? Foot is about 26cm and I ski a 26.5 (so Scarpa 27) or 25.5 depending on the boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doremite
Ha I actually just looked at those too, appreciate the offer! How do they run length wise? 25.5 is typically a pretty tight fit for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddball
Yes, I love the bindings. And robust, as in powerful making turns. I would never characterize any binding as robust as in unbreakable. I have had, and wasn't hiding, issues with claw grab and splintering plates, though the latter hasn't affected performance. The first generation also had some shitty toes spackled in the batches. The latest version seems to have improved them all -- too early to say it's perfect, though nothing is ever perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfer 7
I have skied Meidjos -- great binding but also not without issues. But, I haven't been on them enough to say long term it's better or worse. My touring partners have sheered Marker Kingpins, lost a pin from a Vipec toe, sheered a Dynafit heel, lost half the heel on Salomon Shifts. Shit happens. If you're happy with Meidjos, I would stick them, of course.
Cheap boots that feel good are the start.
After that find cheap bindings.
Probably 75mm duckbills. It’s ok.
You have to bend over to get in but that’s part of the initiation ritual.
Any ski that’s slightly softer and shorter than your alpine is good.
PS. There’s one tele brand that changes shell sizes on the half, not the whole number. I forget. But it might be scarpa.
I think you may have that backwards, vonn.Quote:
Originally Posted by vonn
I'm a US mens 11, mondo/cm 29, but a Scarpa 28. If your foot measures 26cm, you are probably looking for a Scarpa 25 as they converted from UK sizing to mondo and somehow messed it up.
Scarpa - I used a 26.5/27.0 Scarpa shell (size 27.0 liner vs 26.5 alpine boots). You don’t necessarily want you tele boots to be roomy. Buy to size but if in between size up vs down as you typically would w an alpine performance fit. Not sure how to reply to Peruvians experience as I have a size 9.0/9.5 shoe size (Euro 42 ~26.5cm) and a 25.5/26.0 Scarpa shell would not work for me (although a 26.5 liner probably fine vs the 27.0 I use).Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
@deschane I too like the way Lynx skis although I prefer the softer flex of V1. Plus it’s nice to have binding options, everyone has to up their game to stay competitive and hopefully the result is better bindings.
They are pretty similar internally to 25.5 Dalbello Kryptons, with a slightly wider forefoot (98mm vs 100mm last). I couldn't get the heel hold to work out for me, so every once and a while I would land a drop backseat and get pretty bad toe bang. I've since moved to 26.0 Tx Pros and kind of miss the narrower ankle fit of the Garmonts. You're welcome to try on both the TX Pros and Garmonts if you need some boot fit data. I generally fit 25.5 Dalbello, 25.5 Garmont, 26.0 Scarpa, 26.5 Salomon MTN Labs, 27.5 Dynafit TLT6s, and my feet are 265mm long and on the narrow side. If I were buying new boots and paying for boot work I would probably be in a 25.5/26 Scarpa.Quote:
Originally Posted by vonn
The hard part with our size feet is figuring out which side of the 26.0/26.5 divide you fall on, and therefore whether you need small or large bindings. That coupled with the relative dearth of used NTN bindings can make your initial gear investment a bit more expensive.
I really appreciate that. I really liked where they were mounted. I do have the bomber plates that should also work to get them back in the correct spot. I’m going to ski on an older setup for the weekend or at least tomorrow. Thanks again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Doremite
Most straight forward method to boot fitting is to get your foot in some shells, figure out your shell fit for the various brands, and find the right size of a lightly used boot.
I’m a scarpa 27.5/28 ntn shell and 27/27.5 garmont/Scott 75mm shell.
I don’t advise a “race fit” length tele shell like you would do a race fit alpine boot. You’ll bash your toes when flexing the bellows.
Most are missing the core of this whole subject here. We have leather boots and my niece has a slight interest in trying a tele turn. She rips on Alpine. We're not saying don't rent plastic, but hey try these too...free...wtf, why not? Tele skiers and just skiers in general online are pretty much cunts and many actually suck at making a turn. That's the most comical part.Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
I can probably teach you how to tele like a champ, on any skis, but I can give you one very big pointer: You must have well fitting comfortable boots. Get those, spend on those, and the rest is easy.
Telemark lesson one
Embrace the love
From michael Jackson
He cares
And so should you.