What's the number?

One of the common mistakes I see is that most underestimate the money save by not going to work. My sis is really smart and when the Gov of NY asked her to head up a department 4 hours from where she lived instead of retiring, she ended up having to rent an apartment and do an 8 hour commute home and back on weekends. Kept saying she couldn't afford to retire. When she got tossed under the bus she did retire and saved $15k/yr right off the bat. Now her and her husband travel a lot with that money and all the extra time. What she really stayed for the the rush of the job and feeling needed.

Larry David was asked why he started working again, doing that HBO series after making more money than God has from Senfield, and he said, you gotta have a place to go to.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Mountain guides = baby sitters. All the guides I know, when speaking frankly, concede that that there's nothing to love about baby sitting clients. That's not limited to mountain guides.

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That's not my experience.

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I was a professional musician for a short time, a proud member of the American Federation of Musicians Local 474. An old timer pro, who had chops I could dream of having, advised me to get out because, in his experience, the joy squirts out sideways when something you love becomes work.

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Also, not my experience having musician friends from the Seattle Symphony to jazz guitarists and rock bass players.

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At least you concede that, although the better qualifier is "usually." The "you gotta love your work" myth was created by The Man as a means to keep gullible workers in line, i.e., your work provides passion so why pay you more? Fortunately, numerous commentators have figured it out and are exposing the fraud. See, e.g., NYT: The Tyranny of the Forced Smile; The Myth of the Dream Job and the True Pursuit of Happiness and the links in my prior post.

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All those article misconstrue the point that there are people who do make a living doing what they love. This is distinct from forcing yourself to think you like your grind in the machine which is what all those articles are about.

Authors, actors, artists, musicians, scientists, professors, builders, mechanics, lots of people of merit make their way doing stuff they love on their own terms, not working for the man.

We may both be old. I'll let life judge who is more bitter.

Big Steve should of worked for Dan McHale. I am sure Dan loves his job.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Pretty clear you suck at math, too. My guess is that the wife does all the finances.

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meh, he's not far off the standard 4% rule of thumb that gets tossed around, just optimistic.

$20K makes a big difference at that income level.

20-30M. IMO its about generational wealth and trying to set up, at the very least, educational trusts for your descendants.

However, I sell cars to a guy worth more than The Donald, and that puts shit in perspective. Extreme wealth.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Mountain guides = baby sitters. All the guides I know, when speaking frankly, concede that that there's nothing to love about baby sitting clients. That's not limited to mountain guides. I was a professional musician for a short time, a proud member of the American Federation of Musicians Local 474. An old timer pro, who had chops I could dream of having, advised me to get out because, in his experience, the joy squirts out sideways when something you love becomes work.

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There's some serious truth to that. You take your favorite hobby and create a job out of it, it still feels like work and has a shitty side to it. I prefer to keep my hobbies as hobbies and try to find something else that I enjoy to make a living off of.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I however am definitely not one of those people.

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Me either. I can't say I get bored when I'm not working. There are so many other things I like to do. Heck, to be honest, sleep is one of them. I'm way more likely to be bored at work than at home.

I do think there are people who absolutely love their work. I also think there are those who can't envision life without the structure and challenges of work--as you said--and then I think there are the rest of us and I think we're likely the majority.

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Originally Posted by Beer Drinker

20-30M. IMO its about generational wealth and trying to set up, at the very least, educational trusts for your descendants.

However, I sell cars to a guy worth more than The Donald, and that puts shit in perspective. Extreme wealth.

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Will you adopt me? I promise to call every week and never forget your birthday.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Pretty clear you suck at math, too. My guess is that the wife does all the finances.

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You're figuring it'd be tough to draw 5% on the regular? Or are you deducting for what you consider to be normal dealership repair and litigation fees?

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

That's an old tired myth, not reality except for that 1 in 10,000 hugely lucky person, e.g., professional athlete or someone who actually makes a living in the arts. Other than those very rare situations, everyone I've met who claims to "love my work" is delusional and/or oblivious.

I should know better to avoid these discussions. People do not want to hear about the defense mechanisms that keep them going.

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It's this cynicism and despair that makes the great compromise (working for the weekend) possible. When you have faith in yourself, and possess an absolute determination to make all of your life an expression of your truest self, then you do. We all understand the pressure to conform with a social and economic system at odds with our best inclinations, but that does not mean it's inevitable, just that many don't have what it takes to navigate the pathless path. Positing that it's only the lucky few who've succeeded in professional sports and the arts only reveals how completely you've bought into the conventional narrative.

5% year after year? Those days are behind us.

There is a consensus among financial planners that, due to near-zero returns on ubersafe debt investments, the best play for most people who have a decent chunk of $$ in their retirement accounts is to plan on drawing down on the retirement account principal if that's what it takes to take SS late. Starting at age 62, as each year passes your SS benefits grow at an annual rate of 7%+. See https://www.merrilledge.com/publish/...opic_paper.pdf

Fall in Love with Your Job, Get Ripped Off by Your Boss

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

5% year after year? Those days are behind us.

There is a consensus among financial planners that, due to near-zero returns on ubersafe debt investments, the best play for most people who have a decent chunk of $$ in their retirement accounts is to plan on drawing down on the retirement account principal if that's what it takes to take SS late. Starting at age 62, as each year passes your SS benefits grow at an annual rate of 7%+. See https://www.merrilledge.com/publish/...opic_paper.pdf

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Interesting... I hadn't really considered taking SS at all.. Of course I would if the benefits exist at that time, but with that 2034 date floating around, I'm not banking on it. I'm figuring to keep earning an income consulting pretty much for forever... I can't imagine giving up working with computers. That's a different subject.. I had just read a BB article discussing annual returns that included this paragraph:

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The average investor realizes returns of about 3.7 percent. That’s far below any of the market returns discussed above. This underperformance occurs regardless of the investment vehicle, whether it's mutual funds, hedge funds or just plain old stocks. The reason investors tend to underperform is that they chase alpha (above-market returns) and fail, rather than aim for beta (market-matching returns) and succeed.

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Doesn't seem so bad. Anyway, what does that mean, I need another million or two? Okay.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Doesn't seem so bad. Anyway, what does that mean, I need another million or two? Okay.

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3.7% is bad compared to the 7-8% annual growth of your SS benefit between age 62 and 70. That's the point. But, yeah, I can see how that might seem irrelevant to a guy your age.

I am optimistic that SS and Medicare will be around when you retire. Remember that when FDR pushed for SS, the idea was to enable older people to retire, thus loosening labor supply, opening up jobs to young people and creating upward pressure on wages. We need that moving forward to setoff labor contraction effects of technology and global cheap labor. I am encouraged to hear guys like Rand Paul, etc., talk about saving SS/Medicare via gradual adjustment of retirement age (SS already has that, but not Medicare) when just a few years ago they were taking about abolishing SS altogether.

35 years in the law, pushing 60 and trying to get out, watching your investments like a hawk, you're like a regular matador to convention Steve. You seem like a nice enough guy but c'mon get serious man.

I actualy added it all up on a handy napkin and depending on how long I keep breathing ( for DB pensions sake lets say 90) the number is between 1.5 and 2 for just me

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

There's some serious truth to that. You take your favorite hobby and create a job out of it, it still feels like work and has a shitty side to it. I prefer to keep my hobbies as hobbies and try to find something else that I enjoy to make a living off of.

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A young bud recently gave up her steelhead fishing guide gig for good, she cited unkind stereotypes about dealing with a largely male old boy republican clientel (imagine that?) as her reason for giving it up to become a teacher ... hopefully the kids will be better behaved

Another year later bump.

So, anyone's plans changed due to the Trump election?

Well if the stock market keeps doing what it has since he was elected than def sooner than later... The market has been on a tear since he won and whether or not you hate him or like him you have to love what it has done to your 401k and private investments...

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Another year later bump.

So, anyone's plans changed due to the Trump election?

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How have I missed this thread for 5 years?
I was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel but the complete unknowns of a Trump presidency is leaving me pretty gun-shy. We'd probably be fine if I pulled the plug today but I'm less willing to take a chance now.

Sometimes I wish I could be so certain about how it is for everyone else. But most of the time I'm glad I don't.

I have a few experiences, like a father that loved physics and worked until he was ready to really retire, has a stipend and played tennis everyday he could. He's not rich, but he played his cards in a way that worked for him and some of his peers. Other guys I know who went the jarhead route. Every goal has its joys and its trials.

Me? I'd say about 4m, wisely invested, at least 2m pulling 6% or more. That's the goal. I'm not smug enough to say how far along that road I am.

Having kids really changes up the game, wanting to give them a springboard into their own journeys adds a bit of requirements for cash to blow on education.

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Originally Posted by Undertow

Well if the stock market keeps doing what it has since he was elected than def sooner than later... The market has been on a tear since he won and whether or not you hate him or like him you have to love what it has done to your 401k and private investments...

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Yeah, the good news is that a diversified portfolio is up 2-3% right now (international, bonds, and REIT got hit a little bit while domestic stocks went up). The bad news is the small gain can get wiped out in a morning. I've adjusted my portfolio risk over time to reflect a <10 year time horizon.

Figure on $3M minimum, but that also assumes putting a kid through college/grad school while retired. It also assumes self-financing a lot of health care while retired and that SS payout will only be 75% of the current projections because Republicans are in charge.

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Originally Posted by jibij

How have I missed this thread for 5 years?
I was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel but the complete unknowns of a Trump presidency is leaving me pretty gun-shy. We'd probably be fine if I pulled the plug today but I'm less willing to take a chance now.

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I somehow missed it too and that's a dam shame because I actually did serious thought and research and am on it. I figure I'm about 4 years away regardless of who is president.

first, you have to figure what type of life you want to live and you have to be realistic and if youre always going to want the new car and new phone and a house on the golf course, it may not happen for you.
second, you gotta save like nobody else you know and not rely on the stock mkt to get you there because it could drop 25% the year youre getting ready to cut all ties.

I highly recommend reading early retirement extreme, this guy and his wife live on about 7k yearly and he retired a long time ago; but they don't live on the golf course or take many trips and another example is mr. money mustache, although his fans just try to live real cheap; the extreme guy totally changed his mindset to abandon consumerism.

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Originally Posted by SkiCougar

I highly recommend reading early retirement extreme, this guy and his wife live on about 7k yearly

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Yeah, that's extreme all right!