Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners

So... with Dave's new thread ,

I thought it was,,, an opportunity to revive

yooper's old thread...


cook away...

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Originally Posted by taoslcl

Has anyone tried this with mountain lab liners? Im guessing it should work about the same?

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Bake them or rice bag them. I've done both on the mtn lab liners and they certainly mold well (but do not puff up like a baked intuition).

Just did a set of Power Wraps in the oven. 240, shut it off, set timer for 5 minutes, check, go another 5 minutes, put in the footbed, liner into boot, foot into boot, buckle.

No issues at all.

Put them in the oven and bake them just like below reply. Biggest issue is avoiding wrinkles once you get them in the shells.

Just did a pair of Pro Wraps (or Power Wraps? whatever the Krypton Pro was sold with). 10 minutes in the oven at just over 200, footbed on bare foot, toe cap (cut up old running socks) over toes and footbed, stretchy dress socks over all that. Foot (w/footbed, toe cap, sock) in liner, step into boot, check for wrinkles and wiggle around a bit, buckle, pull on liner tabs to make sure overlap is high enough, toes on 2x4, wait 10 minutes. Seems pretty much perfect, except that I probably should have used thicker toe caps.

Thanks to everyone posting advice here; this thread was very helpful.

dude...

beer is essential.


Enjoy your boots ;

Be Safe out there...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toddball

Just did a pair of Pro Wraps (or Power Wraps? whatever the Krypton Pro was sold with). 10 minutes in the oven at just over 200, footbed on bare foot, toe cap (cut up old running socks) over toes and footbed, stretchy dress socks over all that. Foot (w/footbed, toe cap, sock) in liner, step into boot, check for wrinkles and wiggle around a bit, buckle, pull on liner tabs to make sure overlap is high enough, toes on 2x4, wait 10 minutes. Seems pretty much perfect, except that I probably should have used thicker toe caps.

Thanks to everyone posting advice here; this thread was very helpful.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by skiJ

dude...

beer is essential.


Enjoy your boots ;

Be Safe out there...

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Tragically, I was standing too far from the fridge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toddball

Tragically, I was standing too far from the fridge

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Rookie move.

Did a pair of wraps for my Tecnicas. Was concerned about relatively stiff and overlapping cuffs so I dipped the top half in boiling water to soften. Worked like a charm. Easier for me to slide in liner/easier for friend to widen and then tuck wrap in. Area behind ankle is not the smoothest, check out how much the intuitions molded to conform to a hot cuff.Attachment 224965

This is a great thread. Thank you to all who have contributed.

One question, as I firm up my plans for fitting new power wraps to my older scarpa Maestrales. What's the rationale for putting the foot in the liner before putting the liner in the shell? Seems like it'd be a lot easier to put the hot liner in shell and then foot into liner/shell. I think I've had boots done both ways in shops. And it seems like some folks posting in this thread have done the liner-in-shell-then-foot-in-liner/shell option. But the "official" yooper approach is foot in liner, then foot/liner into shell.

I have the intuition fit kit, with toe cap and super thin socks. I have a custom insole that I'll include in the fitting. Boots have a big hinged front plastic piece, so they open up pretty nicely without too much trouble (and hopefully without a human or mechanical spreader...).

Thanks!

FWIW, I always put the liner in the shell first, then the foot. I don’t know if it makes much difference either way as long as you’re careful to avoid wrinkles. People may argue, but I take the liner out of the oven, put the footbed in, slip the liner in the shell using a shoehorn, etc.

ETA: looking at some of my earlier posts in this thread I see I suggested using silicone spray. I don’t recommend that any more - it makes the liners squeak against the shell forever.

Thanks Meadow Skipper.

If anyone wants to argue, I'd be curious to hear the contrary view...

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Originally Posted by Ignatius

Thanks Meadow Skipper.

If anyone wants to argue, I'd be curious to hear the contrary view...

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You want a wrinkle (if you get one) to be on the outside, not the inside. If you put your foot in the liner 1st there is less chance of an inside wrinkle vs. sliding it in afterward.

how ever the guy or gal at Intuition does it

we also tape the footbed to the foot ... always perfect

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

we also tape the footbed to the foot ... always perfect

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I've had good luck doing a variation of the same thing.

While a liner is in the oven:
(1) Tape the footbed to foot;
(2) Cover the toes with a toecap (the ones in the Intuition kit) and tape to hold in place;
(3) Pull on the thin Intuition socks. These are the thickness of a thin sock liner.

When liner is cooked:
(4) Put foot in the liner;
(5) Pull liner snug and cover everything with a women's knee-high nylon; this will help the liner slide into the boot shell
(6) Use a folded piece of cardboard as a shoehorn to open up the boot shell cuff and slide the whole assembly into the shell.

As a final step, check for proper liner-shell alignment and smooth out any wrinkles---especially from the heel to the calf---then latch the buckles and use the toe-on-2x4 method to set the heel. Wait 10 minutes.

Repeat for next foot.

Good luck!

cheers,
john

Molded my own fucking liners tonight. We'll see how it ends up. My first attempt at this years ago ended so badly. My oven didn't have a working thermometer, so the temp just kept going up even though it was set to 220 degrees. Burned the piss out of the liner outer and the foam was never the same.

This time went better. I'm much older and more cautious. And I had the exact right amount of beer. Waiting for the liner to finish cooling before I peer in there.

Sorry if this has been covered as I did not read all 17 pages.... Approximately how much time do you have between removal from oven to beginning to form?

I ask because I’ve been in a frantic rush in the oven-removal-to-buckling window in the past and wonder if I could chill a bit during this period. Made an insignificant error last mold years back I am guessing was avoidable had I slowed down to make sure liner was perfectly straight prior to clamp down. (Cuff by the tongue slightly skewed on one liner now - feel is great just requires a little more diligence to make sure it is in the right spot prior to clamp down).

No advantage to waiting, just move smooth and deliberately while it’s the right temp.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

While I always refer to Yooper's post on baking and fitting liners, I do not use oil to ease sliding into the shells. Instead, I have a large pot of water boiling on the stove, and while the liner is heating, I hold the shell upside down over the pot, steaming the inside of the shell. This makes the shell relatively soft, and it also makes it wet, and the liners slide in pretty easily.

Also, I tape my insoles, and the toe cap to my foot, then pull an old, thin, ski sock over it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

FWIW, I always put the liner in the shell first, then the foot. I don’t know if it makes much difference either way as long as you’re careful to avoid wrinkles. People may argue, but I take the liner out of the oven, put the footbed in, slip the liner in the shell using a shoehorn, etc.

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My rule of thumb is footbed in liner, liner in shell, put on foot if it is more than 15mm shell fit. Sub 15mm shell fit is footbed in liner. liner on foot, OEM boot plastic bag over liner, slip foot into shell (this helps avoid wrinkles in the heel). If you don't have any slippery thin plastic bags (I like Lange ones) use the molding sock that comes with the Intuitions, but it is sometimes a challenge to get this on in a timely manner over the hot liner.

With method #1, if you have any doubts about whether you pulled some liner down into shell with the heel, put all your weight on the foot, lean forward, and reef on the collar of the liner before you buckle up. Tape footbeds onto foot only with old liners with the seam sewn down the middle; all newer Intuitions with sewn on soles don't require this.

Ideal temperature for baking in a convection oven is around 235 F. over 8-10 minutes. The K-Tech ovens used by every shop are set to 117 C. and cycle between about 225 F. and 243 F. so average around 235 F. If I do them in a home oven I usually preheat to 250 F. and turn the oven off before inserting liners.

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Originally Posted by gregL

Ideal temperature for baking in a convection oven is around 235 F. over 8-10 minutes. The K-Tech ovens used by every shop are set to 117 C. and cycle between about 225 F. and 243 F. so average around 235 F. If I do them in a home oven I usually preheat to 250 F. and turn the oven off before inserting liners.

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I put in ceramic tiles (or other mass) on the rack to retain the heat:

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Modified Conventional oven boot liner baking: As noted previously, it appears that a conventional oven’s heating element produces higher heat than which is desirable and practical to avoid liner damage and even heating inside and out. By adding mass to the equation, a more controllable and even temperature can be maintain for the time frame needed. Four, 6 x 6x 3/8″ ceramic tiles provided sufficient mass to keep the oven temperature 240° for 12 minutes in our tests after the oven was turned off to avoid high heat issues. (Rubber ‘pads’ where placed on the tiles to avoid direct contact with the liners as a precaution.) Though the 12 minutes was a little arbitrary of a time frame, it did appear to be sufficient for our molding purposes. Longer or shorter may be fine for others.

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Attachment 303661

a mistake will never make again. cut a corner and not follow the recipe.
had a brainfart and left the first boot in with 110°C turned on (not off)
was an old one for a rebake --- still

"moved the post - as this is the right thread"

I’ve noticed that using the rice method doesn’t change the outside of the liner and I believe using the non-convection oven doesn’t evenly heat the liner, especially inside as there is no air movement.

I did my liners (Pro Wrap) this weekend with a hybrid method I filled a sock with 2.5 lbs of rice, enough to fill up the foot portion of the liner, but not extend into the cuff. I heated it per instructions for 5 minutes.

The oven was meanwhile heated to 240 F for about an hour with a pizza stone in it. After the rice was heated it went into the toe of the liner and liner was placed on aluminum foil into the oven. Oven was turned off when the liner went in. Heated 10 mins. Took it out and removed the sock of rice. Liner was perfectly mushy but not limp. Molded perfectly with no creases and a great fit.

Hoping to get some insight from the collective.
Blew my Achilles last feb and the repair now has that achilles/heel area significantly larger than before.
I’m thinking I can put a bag in my boot and fill with hot rice. The bag of rice will only heat the area of the liner from top of cuff to heel area. I will then tape of my Achilles area with gauze and athletic tape to build up that area as to compress the liner more equating to more room in the boot for bulkier Achilles/heel.
Wondering if I can do this with the liner still in the boot, dump rice in, let the heat do it’s work, remove rice, slide foot in and buckle the boot. Drink beer while probably in pain waiting for liner to cool?..?
Should I remove liner, heat with rice like above, put on foot then shove the foot/liner into boot like normal molding procedure?
Really hoping my first option will work.
Thanks.